Is the media more interested in criticizing than reporting?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

That's the spirit! It's a relief to hear you sounding so upbeat. I was getting worried about you. After all, just a fortnight ago you were predicting that the only people working by the end of this year would be those in the public sector and there wouldn't be any money available to pay them. I'm glad your outlook is becoming a bit more positive.

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Battered cod, carrots, fresh broad beans, fresh asparagus, homemade hollandaise.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Battered cod, carrots, fresh broad beans, fresh asparagus, homemade hollandaise.

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Don't forget the chips.

:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

So do I !

Disaster Recovery Plan. Most businesses have them in place, such as what happens if our factory burns down. Without one there's panic, meeting after meeting, can't find this, haven't got that, who do we contact for this and that etc.,. Normally the Directors have one at home on file - all customers backed up, all contacts re plant, machinery, insurance, where to go to find temporary accommodation - it can save a business from ruin, and means they can be up and running in days. The Govt. will have one in the event of a nuclear strike and you would have thought also such things as a pandemic, especially after SARS etc. If they did have one it would have told them where the existing PPE was located incl. it's "shelf life". [ if say 5yrs, then they should replenish every 5yrs], how much there is, where it can be obtained, including all those businesses who can produce extra, at what speed and quantity, the contacts in those businesses [who would obviously be in agreement with the arrangements], and so on. I don't know about the technical requirements of the testing kits, but I would think they're mostly generic. If that's the case, then there's no excuse for not being able to put the resource of those contacts who are able, to produce enough kits within a week or so. It seems that it's all been done on the hoof, with little or no readiness..

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Why didn't you answer properly in the first place if you chose to answer. DRP alone means nothing!

As for plans for different things, you'd be amazed at the plans goverment have in place for all kinds of thing's but that said, nothing on this scale has been seen anywhere in the world ever in the history of modern medicine or science. If anyone in any government had suggested they should make a plan for the whole world stopping all at once he'd have been laughed out of office.

As for there's no excuse for not being able to put the resource of those contacts who are able, to produce enough kits within a week or so When every major governemt in the world and millions of private bodies are clamouring to do exactly the same thing why do you think there is no excuse for not being able to do it in a week, particularly as it is not a one off purchase, it is purchase after purchase after purchase and not just by UK but by all the other agencies too.

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Originally Posted by tell it like it is

Public sector work? *whistles*

Everyone is wise after the fact, we're still dealing with mass uncertainty about covid-19. Scientific views change seemingly every day - an kids transmit or not? Are German figures accurate? So on, so on...

I doubt any government has handled it perfectly or could.

What's needed now is to balance the risks to remove the lockdown as efficiently as possible.

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Even now, some people can't resist a public sector dig - will you be applauding the NHS workers on Thursday?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Even now, some people can't resist a public sector dig - will you be applauding the NHS workers on Thursday?

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Oh get over it, Bob, was a joke...

Are you trying to applaud shame?

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Originally Posted by tell it like it is

Oh get over it, Bob, was a joke...

Are you trying to applaud shame?

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I work for the public sector as a plasterer and floor layer and a bit of roofing and i'll tell you this, they want every ounce out of you for pretty crap pay. Sometimes three jobs in a day at different properties. The biggest difference is the quality of work and standard required (27 years in the private sector)

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Why didn't you answer properly in the first place if you chose to answer. DRP alone means nothing!

As for plans for different things, you'd be amazed at the plans goverment have in place for all kinds of thing's but that said, nothing on this scale has been seen anywhere in the world ever in the history of modern medicine or science. If anyone in any government had suggested they should make a plan for the whole world stopping all at once he'd have been laughed out of office.

As for there's no excuse for not being able to put the resource of those contacts who are able, to produce enough kits within a week or so When every major governemt in the world and millions of private bodies are clamouring to do exactly the same thing why do you think there is no excuse for not being able to do it in a week, particularly as it is not a one off purchase, it is purchase after purchase after purchase and not just by UK but by all the other agencies too.

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You can only plan for what you know, true. However we had a situation where the govt. was desperate for PPE and couldn't source suppliers overseas or large enough ones in the UK. Scores of firms contacting the Govt./NHS offering to manufacture stuff but couldn't get a response, whilst the govt. saying day after day how they were trying to source suppliers. None of that is rocket science and with a bit of planning the Govt/NHS could have just rattled off a few emails to designated manufacturers and they could have gone into production within days..

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

You can only plan for what you know, true. However we had a situation where the govt. was desperate for PPE and couldn't source suppliers overseas or large enough ones in the UK. Scores of firms contacting the Govt./NHS offering to manufacture stuff but couldn't get a response, whilst the govt. saying day after day how they were trying to source suppliers. None of that is rocket science and with a bit of planning the Govt/NHS could have just rattled off a few emails to designated manufacturers and they could have gone into production within days..

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The reply to that was that some of the people offering to manufacture and supply wwere offering things 'too small scale' to make it feasable.

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Originally Posted by tell it like it is

Oh get over it, Bob, was a joke...

Are you trying to applaud shame?

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Don't forget to remind the medical staff treating your wife's illness about how feckin lazy they are next time she has an appointment.

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Don't forget to remind the medical staff treating your wife's illness about how feckin lazy they are next time she has an appointment.

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Only call out laziness and incompetence when it happens, kid...

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Originally Posted by tell it like it is

Only call out laziness and incompetence when it happens, kid...

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Funny. Your little side splitter

Public sector work? *whistles*

Seemed rather general rather than specific to me. (I'll skip the kid reply)

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Originally Posted by tell it like it is

Only call out laziness and incompetence when it happens, kid...

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I know both sides, and the majority of people that i've come across in the public sector aren't lazy.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I know both sides, and the majority of people that i've come across in the public sector aren't lazy.

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I agree, despite what some on here seem to think. Been some great public sector people I've had the privilege to work for.

Difference for me is that private sector tends to be more driven. Getting public sector staff to give detailed requirements for what they want is often like pulling teeth, admittedly because they don't often know.

Problem you get is that when frontline staff in NHS **** up, it's got serious consequences and many want to deny that ever happens for some strange reason.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Maybe we should also examine our own values whereby we farm off our old folk to care homes to the degree that we do.

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As someone who just about to do this....I have no choice my mum is no longer safe to stay in her own home and I can’t provide anywhere near the professional care she needs.

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Originally Posted by bluesp

As someone who just about to do this....I have no choice my mum is no longer safe to stay in her own home and I can’t provide anywhere near the professional care she needs.

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You have my sympathy mate, a very difficult situation to be in. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by tell it like it is

I agree, despite what some on here seem to think. Been some great public sector people I've had the privilege to work for.

Difference for me is that private sector tends to be more driven. Getting public sector staff to give detailed requirements for what they want is often like pulling teeth, admittedly because they don't often know.

Problem you get is that when frontline staff in NHS **** up, it's got serious consequences and many want to deny that ever happens for some strange reason.

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Of course it happens, i've been on the end of very poor practice by the NHS, although my family and i would never use it as a stick to beat them with as some people do when there ideological persuasions get the better of them :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Of course it happens, i've been on the end of very poor practice by the NHS, although my family and i would never use it as a stick to beat them with as some people do when there ideological persuasions get the better of them :thumbup:

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My objection is more the "all are Angels" mantra when that's not true.

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Originally Posted by bluesp

As someone who just about to do this....I have no choice my mum is no longer safe to stay in her own home and I can’t provide anywhere near the professional care she needs.

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All the best mate. A difficult decision.

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Originally Posted by tell it like it is

My objection is more the "all are Angels" mantra when that's not true.

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Absolutely agree, it's ****ing patronising for a start. My wife is a Nurse and she says that she finds it all a bit embarrassing, she's certainly no Angel and has told me that although it's been tough on the wards, things where she works aren't as bad as the media have made out. There are good nurses and there are those that are not so good, same as any workforce. One of the biggest tragedies that may come out of this (Maybe not for you :hehe:) is the Nursing and Health Worker unions not pushing better pay and conditions-strike while the iron is hot and all that. Rainbows are wonderful things but sadly they don't pay the bills. I'd like to see huge public support for health workers when this is over and for the weak healthcare unions to back up it's members.

I'd not disagree with improvements for health workers.

What I'd like to see is the rooting out of those who simply aren't competent given the current culture tends to be gathering round and protecting. Retrain where needed and if still not cutting the mustard, then replace. Not going to be easy to do, but those excellent health workers should be rewarded.

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Originally Posted by bluesp

As someone who just about to do this....I have no choice my mum is no longer safe to stay in her own home and I can’t provide anywhere near the professional care she needs.

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Of course some people have little choice due to their personal circumstances and which applies in your case. That's why I referred to the degree we do it rather than the fact that we do it.

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Originally Posted by tell it like it is

I'd not disagree with improvements for health workers.

What I'd like to see is the rooting out of those who simply aren't competent given the current culture tends to be gathering round and protecting. Retrain where needed and if still not cutting the mustard, then replace. Not going to be easy to do, but those excellent health workers should be rewarded.

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What a great idea. Let’s not stop with nurses but cull the crap from all government and UK state funded institutions. Let’s start with the current UK government and ministers.:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

What a great idea. Let’s not stop with nurses but cull the crap from all government and UK state funded institutions. Let’s start with the current UK government and ministers.:thumbup:

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Another election then.

What would Brenda from Bristol say???

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Originally Posted by tell it like it is

Oh get over it, Bob, was a joke...

Are you trying to applaud shame?

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You've proved it wasn't a joke in some of your subsequent posts, your opinions on the virus are driven by right wing political dogma - I accept that mine are driven by the same thing from the left wing to a degree, but the difference between us is I'm prepared to acknowledge my bias and have I hope been able to acknowledge when I think the opposite side have done something praiseworthy whereas that's just not in your make up.

I see you've seized on that report about there being ten times the number of cases of the virus in Germany as a way to question their official figures which are used against the IUK Government by people like me. I must say I don't get this approach because it would have a negligible impact on German death figures if true thereby making their fatalities total even more impressive when compared to ours.

Didn’t have all this guff back then hey.....

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...d-second-wave/

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

Another election then.

What would Brenda from Bristol say???

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Let’s start with an independent inquiry and see what and who worked and who and what failed? That’ll take a bit of time.

Brenda from Bristol is waiting for the day she can visit the Old Duke and grab a pint of Scrumpy with the fear of Covid19 killing her. She’s not alone with that.:thumbup:

Good to see “Taking back control” working out well then:biggrin:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...wn-quarantined

Good to see Farage focusing on the 50 illegals’ that landed on a beach yesterday who are sure to be spreading Covid19 around the UK.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Even now, some people can't resist a public sector dig - will you be applauding the NHS workers on Thursday?

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A great many people who slag off the public sector aren't knocking NHS workers (who comprise 30% of the total), or teachers and those in the education field (28%), or coppers, firefighters, prison officers and many others who are essential. They mean the unproductive 430K strong army of lard-arsed, chair hugging, tea and coffee swigging, biscuit munching, pen pushing, computer keys tapping blobs of career layabouts who make up the civil service that hang around for donkey's years until they retire from stealing a living because they know no-one in the private sector would pay them nearly as much as the government teat does in return for doing next to bugger all.

There were an estimated 5.42 million people employed in the public sector for June 2019, which was 29,000 more than for March 2019. 16.5% of all people in paid work were employed in the public sector for June 2019, unchanged from March 2019. https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentand...yment/june2019

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Even now, some people can't resist a public sector dig - will you be applauding the NHS workers on Thursday?

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I think it's a case that current talk of redundancy, furloughing, un-employment, crisis loans, the looming economic crash, these are all things that occupy the minds and discussion of those in the private sector, yet not really those with full pay and job security in the public sector..

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

A great many people who slag off the public sector aren't knocking NHS workers (who comprise 30% of the total), or teachers and those in the education field (28%), or coppers, firefighters, prison officers and many others who are essential. They mean the unproductive 430K strong army of lard-arsed, chair hugging, tea and coffee swigging, biscuit munching, pen pushing, computer keys tapping blobs of career layabouts who make up the civil service that hang around for donkey's years until they retire from stealing a living because they know no-one in the private sector would pay them nearly as much as the government teat does in return for doing next to bugger all.

There were an estimated 5.42 million people employed in the public sector for June 2019, which was 29,000 more than for March 2019. 16.5% of all people in paid work were employed in the public sector for June 2019, unchanged from March 2019. https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentand...yment/june2019

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Strewth!

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

You've proved it wasn't a joke in some of your subsequent posts, your opinions on the virus are driven by right wing political dogma - I accept that mine are driven by the same thing from the left wing to a degree, but the difference between us is I'm prepared to acknowledge my bias and have I hope been able to acknowledge when I think the opposite side have done something praiseworthy whereas that's just not in your make up.

I see you've seized on that report about there being ten times the number of cases of the virus in Germany as a way to question their official figures which are used against the IUK Government by people like me. I must say I don't get this approach because it would have a negligible impact on German death figures if true thereby making their fatalities total even more impressive when compared to ours.

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If I "seized" on that report to question the German figures, then can you please explain why I clearly caveated the Guardian report on it by pointing out it had not been peer reviewed? Did you selectively ignore that?

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Originally Posted by tell it like it is

If I "seized" on that report to question the German figures, then can you please explain why I clearly caveated the Guardian report on it by pointing out it had not been peer reviewed? Did you selectively ignore that?

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So, I think I'll take your lack of an argument against my point about the German figures being even more impressive if that report is right as agreement with it and therefore I apologise for thinking you were just driven by a desire to make a political point and instead thank you for bringing it to the attention of the posters on here :thumbup:.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

I think it's a case that current talk of redundancy, furloughing, un-employment, crisis loans, the looming economic crash, these are all things that occupy the minds and discussion of those in the private sector, yet not really those with full pay and job security in the public sector..

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That's a fair point, but I can remember arguments on here a decade ago where people with a certain agenda saw the public sector as a convenient whipping boy, funnily enough they held similar type views to the likes of Ronnie "tells it like it is" Bird.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So, I think I'll take your lack of an argument against my point about the German figures being even more impressive if that report is right as agreement with it and therefore I apologise for thinking you were just driven by a desire to make a political point and instead thank you for bringing it to the attention of the posters on here :thumbup:.

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My point on the German figures is that if they are out by a factor of 10, then it's not as you claim "impressive".

The point you spectacularly missed is that IF true then it shows the danger of relying upon facts, figures at this point in time...

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Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.

A great many people who slag off the public sector aren't knocking NHS workers (who comprise 30% of the total), or teachers and those in the education field (28%), or coppers, firefighters, prison officers and many others who are essential. They mean the unproductive 430K strong army of lard-arsed, chair hugging, tea and coffee swigging, biscuit munching, pen pushing, computer keys tapping blobs of career layabouts who make up the civil service that hang around for donkey's years until they retire from stealing a living because they know no-one in the private sector would pay them nearly as much as the government teat does in return for doing next to bugger all.

There were an estimated 5.42 million people employed in the public sector for June 2019, which was 29,000 more than for March 2019. 16.5% of all people in paid work were employed in the public sector for June 2019, unchanged from March 2019. https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentand...yment/june2019

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Is anyone going to bite? I'm not.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Is anyone going to bite? I'm not.

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I wonder why you won't.

Are there inefficiencies in public sector? Absolutely. Can public sector be improved by addressing those? Sure. Nobody seems to want that discussion for some strange reason.

I worked at BT a few years after privatisation and tbh the culture change needed was still ongoing. Newer grads coming in had fresher ideas, were getting things done. There was still a large number resistant because they were winding their time down to retirement and nice pensions. That's part of the reason Enterprise House ended up closing down; plenty of younger, capable staff simply left.

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Originally Posted by tell it like it is

My point on the German figures is that if they are out by a factor of 10, then it's not as you claim "impressive".

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According to this

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...untry/germany/

the official German figure for virus cases was a little short of 167,000 as of yesterday. If, in fact, that figure should read 1,670,000 then the fact that there has been a quarter of the deaths in that country that we've have had here is very impressive and a testimony to the success of their planning.

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Originally Posted by tell it like it is

I wonder why you won't.

Are there inefficiencies in public sector? Absolutely. Can public sector be improved by addressing those? Sure. Nobody seems to want that discussion for some strange reason.

I worked at BT a few years after privatisation and tbh the culture change needed was still ongoing. Newer grads coming in had fresher ideas, were getting things done. There was still a large number resistant because they were winding their time down to retirement and nice pensions. That's part of the reason Enterprise House ended up closing down; plenty of younger, capable staff simply left.

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This all started because according to you I took a "joke" of yours seriously - I guess you've put that one to bed there :hehe:.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

According to this

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...untry/germany/

the official German figure for virus cases was a little short of 167,000 as of yesterday. If, in fact, that figure should read 1,670,000 then the fact that there has been a quarter of the deaths in that country that we've have had here is very impressive and a testimony to the success of their planning.

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But the discrepancy in the infection figures may lead people to also question the number of deaths, as in their being recorded as other things and not the virus, whereas in UK if the virus is present at death, or suspected to be present, then the death is recorded, even in the person had heart failure.
I'm not saying either way is right or wrong but its like comparing apples with oranges.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

According to this

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...untry/germany/

the official German figure for virus cases was a little short of 167,000 as of yesterday. If, in fact, that figure should read 1,670,000 then the fact that there has been a quarter of the deaths in that country that we've have had here is very impressive and a testimony to the success of their planning.

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The report cited looks into cases. Does it also include deaths? If not, do German deaths scale to a similar value? If the German figures for cases are wrong, whose to say ours and others aren't?

The problem for everyone is statistics are being generated on the fly, we're potentially seeing issues across nations in terms of the way they are collated etc. I don't think any nation will have "true" figures for a very long time.