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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gnojek
I had no interest in option 3, just interested in the possibility that the club might rescind anyone's seat/season ticket if that option was chosen, if that was the interpretation.
I'm sure you'll get your seat back even after a refund. Season tickets will not go on sale for a very long time.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCC3PO
Only in football will the customer be told they lose rights simply for asking money back on a product that cannot be supplied.
Imagine if the holiday companies came out with a
"Option 1 - Donate the money to the staff who we have had to lay off
Option 2 - Use the money towards your next holiday, but we will tell you the price later. You will get entered into a draw to get an upgrade to Super Economy"
The club are using emotion to sway people to keeping their money at the club (either through a donation, or towards committing when the doors open), people can choose whichever option they want but the reality is the fans are being asked to subsidise the club. Some members of staff have lost 20% of their wages over the last 3 months, and are likely to lose their jobs when the furlough scheme ends.
The question i have is, how much money is currently invested into the academy by the club. Is that money in jeopardy of being cut back, if so by how much? If it is significant, then how many fans need to donate to make up the shortfall? If it is not in jeopardy, then how will the extra money be used by the academy to actual produce a first team player? I am not sure that the academy's lack of quality is even down to finances.
If fans are being asked to defer the money and pay towards the next season ticket, then why can't the club indicate how much a full season ticket would cost for next season? The price can drop pro-rata until the gates open.
I appreciate the club is finding things difficult, but so are the companies who are employing us. Football clubs (not just ours) have the emotion element to eke more money from fans, but if they are asking fans for more money, then fans are entitled to ask for more details.
God - you really dislike the club you say that you support, don't you. They have already had and spent our season ticket money for this season and Tan is heavily subsidising the club to keep it going now. If he didn't it would go bust. Any money that goes into the academy now is therefore ‘new’ investment by the owner to show good faith towards the supporters who remain loyal and how anyone can see that as a bad thing is beyond me. By picking either option one or two, people will be able to watch all nine remaining games and get other benefits. Anyone taking the third option is basically sticking two fingers up to the club at a time when they are in very difficult financial situation. Also how are they asking fans for more money ? - thats just plain rubbish.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCC3PO
I'm sure you'll get your seat back even after a refund. Season tickets will not go on sale for a very long time.
I doubt you will retain your seat next season. If we have to be 1 or 2 metres apart the stadium capacity will be 8-10 thousand max, so a lot of seats will be left empty
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCC3PO
Only in football will the customer be told they lose rights simply for asking money back on a product that cannot be supplied.
Imagine if the holiday companies came out with a
"Option 1 - Donate the money to the staff who we have had to lay off
Option 2 - Use the money towards your next holiday, but we will tell you the price later. You will get entered into a draw to get an upgrade to Super Economy"
The club are using emotion to sway people to keeping their money at the club (either through a donation, or towards committing when the doors open), people can choose whichever option they want but the reality is the fans are being asked to subsidise the club. Some members of staff have lost 20% of their wages over the last 3 months, and are likely to lose their jobs when the furlough scheme ends.
The question i have is, how much money is currently invested into the academy by the club. Is that money in jeopardy of being cut back, if so by how much? If it is significant, then how many fans need to donate to make up the shortfall? If it is not in jeopardy, then how will the extra money be used by the academy to actual produce a first team player? I am not sure that the academy's lack of quality is even down to finances.
If fans are being asked to defer the money and pay towards the next season ticket, then why can't the club indicate how much a full season ticket would cost for next season? The price can drop pro-rata until the gates open.
I appreciate the club is finding things difficult, but so are the companies who are employing us. Football clubs (not just ours) have the emotion element to eke more money from fans, but if they are asking fans for more money, then fans are entitled to ask for more details.
What a ludicrous analogy! If I used a holiday company (and I don't) I wouldn't feel the least disloyal if I were to use a different company next time around. Loyalty to a football club usually lasts a lifetime and more people change spouses than football clubs!
If City went into liquidation how many fans would happily transfer their loyalty to other clubs to the same degree? (Rhetorical question).
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCC3PO
The owner is worth £1.4bn.
He’s no longer a Billionaire, 600m was his latest valuation and he’s spent at least 100m on our club!
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
What a ludicrous analogy! If I used a holiday company (and I don't) I wouldn't feel the least disloyal if I were to use a different company next time around. Loyalty to a football club usually lasts a lifetime and more people change spouses than football clubs!
If City went into liquidation how many fans would happily transfer their loyalty to other clubs to the same degree? (Rhetorical question).
The analogy is highlighting how football clubs (note Plural) are using that tie as a tool to affect their cash flow. The football clubs have not given their fans/customers any information regarding how the money is to be invested in the academy (for example). Nor have the football clubs issued details on future pricing which, if it rises sufficiently, will blow away the credit that fans are retaining in their football clubs interest free. The clubs can simply offset the "credit" with ticket price rises - fans are not in a position to make an economical decision, instead they are being asked to make an emotional decision. Yes, that is down to freedom of choice for the consumer and down to market forces for the football industry.
I know of one fan who has lost his job and is asking for a refund out of necessity. Reading this thread, some people think he is ripe to be labelled disloyal.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ianto13
He’s no longer a Billionaire, 600m was his latest valuation and he’s spent at least 100m on our club!
That looks like a recent update - ouch (for Vinny) - last time I checked his Wikipedia (2 weeks ago) he was at twice that.
However, he has invested £100m on our club of his own free will. He'll be ok when this blows over, but I am not sure some of us will be.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Anyone taking the third option is basically sticking two fingers up to the club at a time when they are in very difficult financial situation.
Does that include people who are also finding times hard because of the impact of the pandemic?
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCC3PO
The analogy is highlighting how football clubs (note Plural) are using that tie as a tool to affect their cash flow. The football clubs have not given their fans/customers any information regarding how the money is to be invested in the academy (for example). Nor have the football clubs issued details on future pricing which, if it rises sufficiently, will blow away the credit that fans are retaining in their football clubs interest free. The clubs can simply offset the "credit" with ticket price rises - fans are not in a position to make an economical decision, instead they are being asked to make an emotional decision. Yes, that is down to freedom of choice for the consumer and down to market forces for the football industry.
I know of one fan who has lost his job and is asking for a refund out of necessity. Reading this thread, some people think he is ripe to be labelled disloyal.
You have made some vaild points but the initial analogy is still pointless. Clubs are offering both a refund or credit (like holiday companies are) and the additional, admittedly woolly, option of donating the credit to the Academy on top. That's one option more than holiday companies are offering. Like many people on here I have been offered credit by various airlines without knowing what their prices will be this time next year when I want to re-schedule - and, regarding those fans option for the credit route, I can't see non-Premier League teams inflating prices outrageously in order to swallow up the credit when the gates are open again. I could be wrong on the last point but it would be a huge slap in the face to their loyal fanbase and hugely counter-productive.
People often use analogies that don't stack up and which detracts from the valid points that they are making.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
3 decent options, the club obviously prefer 1 or 2 but I respect everyone's choice.
At the end of the day we have bought a ticket and although being offered online streams it's not anywhere near the same thing.
I'll go with 1 or 2. Would have been 1 but the players haven't taken any wage cuts during all this so I'd feel like in the grand scheme of club outgoings as a whole, my 70 quid or whatever is a drop in the ocean.
(not saying they necessarily should have done mind, it's their wages owed.)
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCC3PO
Only in football will the customer be told they lose rights simply for asking money back on a product that cannot be supplied.
Imagine if the holiday companies came out with a
"Option 1 - Donate the money to the staff who we have had to lay off
Option 2 - Use the money towards your next holiday, but we will tell you the price later. You will get entered into a draw to get an upgrade to Super Economy"
The club are using emotion to sway people to keeping their money at the club (either through a donation, or towards committing when the doors open), people can choose whichever option they want but the reality is the fans are being asked to subsidise the club. Some members of staff have lost 20% of their wages over the last 3 months, and are likely to lose their jobs when the furlough scheme ends.
The question i have is, how much money is currently invested into the academy by the club. Is that money in jeopardy of being cut back, if so by how much? If it is significant, then how many fans need to donate to make up the shortfall? If it is not in jeopardy, then how will the extra money be used by the academy to actual produce a first team player? I am not sure that the academy's lack of quality is even down to finances.
If fans are being asked to defer the money and pay towards the next season ticket, then why can't the club indicate how much a full season ticket would cost for next season? The price can drop pro-rata until the gates open.
I appreciate the club is finding things difficult, but so are the companies who are employing us. Football clubs (not just ours) have the emotion element to eke more money from fans, but if they are asking fans for more money, then fans are entitled to ask for more details.
what do you mean by lose rights for asking for money back ?
The club is offering a CASH REFUND, of course you can not take that option and keep your rights as a season ticket holder, using your own analogy that is like saying to a holiday company i want my money back but still want a free holidays when you start flying again.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris lee
what do you mean by lose rights for asking for money back ?
The club is offering a CASH REFUND, of course you can not take that option and keep your rights as a season ticket holder, using your own analogy that is like saying to a holiday company i want my money back but still want a free holidays when you start flying again.
Exactly.
The club imo have put forward three decent enough options given the circumstances.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
You have made some vaild points but the initial analogy is still pointless. Clubs are offering both a refund or credit (like holiday companies are) and the additional, admittedly woolly, option of donating the credit to the Academy on top. That's one option more than holiday companies are offering. Like many people on here I have been offered credit by various airlines without knowing what their prices will be this time next year when I want to re-schedule - and, regarding those fans option for the credit route, I can't see non-Premier League teams inflating prices outrageously in order to swallow up the credit when the gates are open again. I could be wrong on the last point but it would be a huge slap in the face to their loyal fanbase and hugely counter-productive.
People often use analogies that don't stack up and which detracts from the valid points that they are making.
I still stand by the analogy because it highlights that football clubs have the real benefit of brand loyalty (itself an emotional trait) and therefore they can use that to eke more from their fans.
The other point I am trying to make, albeit not very well, is that if football clubs are asking ordinary members of the public to donate, or defer close to £100 per ticket (for entire families, that could be pushed to £200-£250), then an act of courtesy would be to demonstrate how that money is being
a) invested in the academy
b) the value of that money against future ticket prices.
I have no issue with fans choosing any of the 3 options, but would like to see more transparency. People asking for refunds in the current state of affairs is, in my opinion, to be wholly accepted and respected.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chris lee
what do you mean by lose rights for asking for money back ?
The club is offering a CASH REFUND, of course you can not take that option and keep your rights as a season ticket holder, using your own analogy that is like saying to a holiday company i want my money back but still want a free holidays when you start flying again.
I wasn't saying anything like that at all.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
Option 2. £70 off the next available season ticket.
You?
Option 1 .
And I will buy season ticket as normal .
May not see all the games though as closed doors may well exist from September in Wales .
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ianto13
He’s no longer a Billionaire, 600m was his latest valuation and he’s spent at least 100m on our club!
I deem that very generous
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
There's an option for a cash refund on season tickets.
"Should you instead opt for a cash refund, you will receive a pro-rata cash refund and will forego your status as a Season Ticket Holder, along with associated benefits. You can do so from Monday 15th June at 2pm"
They could/should have put it under an 'Option 3'.
You should be able to request the cash refund and then watch the games on your iFollow subscription.
Some added confusion now. ESPN/ESPN+ generally shows Sky games for the EFL Championship but the Leeds game isn't listed. (Actually the only listed games are the L2 play-offs.) The iFollow rule has been if it's on Sky you have to watch it on ESPN. Some clarity for us poor American buggers would help.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Having used the live stream in ifollow a few times, I have my doubts about whether it will even be watchable when all the season ticket holders are viewing it.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCC3PO
I still stand by the analogy because it highlights that football clubs have the real benefit of brand loyalty (itself an emotional trait) and therefore they can use that to eke more from their fans.
The other point I am trying to make, albeit not very well, is that if football clubs are asking ordinary members of the public to donate, or defer close to £100 per ticket (for entire families, that could be pushed to £200-£250), then an act of courtesy would be to demonstrate how that money is being
a) invested in the academy
b) the value of that money against future ticket prices.
I have no issue with fans choosing any of the 3 options, but would like to see more transparency. People asking for refunds in the current state of affairs is, in my opinion, to be wholly accepted and respected.
But people are not being asked to ‘donate’. The money has already been paid to the club and spent over 12 months ago. The owner is offering to put an equivalent amount of money into the academy in return for fans agreeing to renew next season at the full price, which would obviously be beneficial to the club to maintain income streams at a very difficult time. You are just making a meal out of this, as usual, to suit your own warped ideas about how the club is run. Also there is no problem with people wanting or needing a refund of the balance (more likely to be £60-£80 in most cases) as long as they are aware that they are giving up their season tickets, as a result of which they will give up their season ticket rights for next season, including being able to keep the same seat. There is nothing unusual in this at all but you obviously think it is some sort of conspiracy for the club to fleece or mislead its own fans.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
But people are not being asked to ‘donate’. The money has already been paid to the club and spent over 12 months ago. The owner is offering to put an equivalent amount of money into the academy in return for fans agreeing to renew next season at the full price, which would obviously be beneficial to the club to maintain income streams at a very difficult time. You are just making a meal out of this, as usual, to suit your own warped ideas about how the club is run. Also there is no problem with people wanting or needing a refund of the balance (more likely to be £60-£80 in most cases) as long as they are aware that they are giving up their season tickets, as a result of which they will give up their season ticket rights for next season, including being able to keep the same seat. There is nothing unusual in this at all but you obviously think it is some sort of conspiracy for the club to fleece or mislead its own fans.
No one is giving up their season ticket rights for next season only for the remainder of this.
The only relevant right I see is a window in which you'll be able to secure the same seat, but if social distancing remains in place,(even if its 1metre) then fans will have to be spaced accordingly throughout the stadium.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
But people are not being asked to ‘donate’. The money has already been paid to the club and spent over 12 months ago. The owner is offering to put an equivalent amount of money into the academy in return for fans agreeing to renew next season at the full price, which would obviously be beneficial to the club to maintain income streams at a very difficult time. You are just making a meal out of this, as usual, to suit your own warped ideas about how the club is run. Also there is no problem with people wanting or needing a refund of the balance (more likely to be £60-£80 in most cases) as long as they are aware that they are giving up their season tickets, as a result of which they will give up their season ticket rights for next season, including being able to keep the same seat. There is nothing unusual in this at all but you obviously think it is some sort of conspiracy for the club to fleece or mislead its own fans.
I think the Club are being fair but naive if they think that option 2 will get underway any time soon. Social distancing
will be in place for some time to come, although may reduce to 1 metre.
When we are allowed to watch a live game again the max stadium capacity will be 8-10 thousand. Currently there are around 16- 18,000 season ticket holders, so chances of anyone retaining their current seat is a long shot, and how do they allocate tickets if demand exceeds capacity, as no doubt it will.
Im going for option 2 and hope the Club is able to justify its optimistic approach to its faithful season ticket holders
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
8 to 10,000 STs will be more than enough.
Without a working vaccine there will be plenty with no intention of going into a football crowd.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
8 to 10,000 STs will be more than enough.
Without a working vaccine there will be plenty with no intention of going into a football crowd.
If you're right, then they still may have to ration places according the section of the ground you sit in. Going by past matches it seems that the majority of ST Holders go for the Ninian or Canton stands. Maybe they'll have to flat price to get an even distribution around the ground
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
8 to 10,000 STs will be more than enough.
Without a working vaccine there will be plenty with no intention of going into a football crowd.
^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hopefully open up the top tier, that’s over 30,000 seats and remember some season ticket holders are family’s, as in my case, so that’s 4 who can sit together (not that I’ll be going without a vaccine, probably)
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
If you're right, then they still may have to ration places according the section of the ground you sit in. Going by past matches it seems that the majority of ST Holders go for the Ninian or Canton stands. Maybe they'll have to flat price to get an even distribution around the ground
Yeah the younger element gather mainly in the Canton. Low risk from covid unlikely to be bothered about the crowds. My father is in his 70s and has no intention of going into a crowd without a vaccine.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Bloop
No one is giving up their season ticket rights for next season only for the remainder of this.
The only relevant right I see is a window in which you'll be able to secure the same seat, but if social distancing remains in place,(even if its 1metre) then fans will have to be spaced accordingly throughout the stadium.
How would this be possible though? You'd have to tell people which games they're allowed to go to, it'd be chaos. More likely to be all or nothing don't you think?
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
How would this be possible though? You'd have to tell people which games they're allowed to go to, it'd be chaos. More likely to be all or nothing don't you think?
I can see a possibility for tickets being sold game by game, capacity limited to a certain amount. Regardless of whether people attend as a family or not. The difficulty will be people leaving the stadium, and possibly entering.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
8 to 10,000 STs will be more than enough.
Without a working vaccine there will be plenty with no intention of going into a football crowd.
The Blues in the Super Rugby their biggest crowd for 15 years today (40,000+). I disagree with your point completely, people will flock back to sports events.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Der Kaiser
The Blues in the Super Rugby their biggest crowd for 15 years today (40,000+). I disagree with your point completely, people will flock back to sports events.
Hardly comparable. NZ with 1500 cases of Covid and 22 deaths and now free of it, and us....need I say more
In time we will get the crowds back, but I doubt it will be back to norm before 21/22 season unless a vaccine appears early next year or sooner.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
How would this be possible though? You'd have to tell people which games they're allowed to go to, it'd be chaos. More likely to be all or nothing don't you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CCFCC3PO
I can see a possibility for tickets being sold game by game, capacity limited to a certain amount. Regardless of whether people attend as a family or not. The difficulty will be people leaving the stadium, and possibly entering.
I can also envisage no away fans being allowed so that grounds can safely accommodate all the home fans who wish to go.
Like others I cant see myself going again until a vaccine is available.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Do it the supermarket way, two metre lines outside, everyone social distancing and being very careful and considerate......once you’re inside, walk where you like, lean over people at the cold meat counter, climb over someone to get the cereal on the top shelf, squeeze past the four staff having a chat, pick up umpteen chickens, feel them, prod them, then put them back etc etc, then go back to the two metre rule at the till and leave :hehe:
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
splott parker
Do it the supermarket way, two metre lines outside, everyone social distancing and being very careful and considerate......once you’re inside, walk where you like, lean over people at the cold meat counter, climb over someone to get the cereal on the top shelf, squeeze past the four staff having a chat, pick up umpteen chickens, feel them, prod them, then put them back etc etc, then go back to the two metre rule at the till and leave :hehe:
Yeah, the supermarket is seriously annoying. People walking the opposite direction to the arrows, people stopping for a chat in the middle of an aisle (which pissed me off in normal times to be fair), they also took away a lot of the "offers" - our bill is about 20% higher but a lot of that is because we don't get to have our meal out once a week/2 weeks.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Bloop
I can also envisage no away fans being allowed so that grounds can safely accommodate all the home fans who wish to go.
Like others I cant see myself going again until a vaccine is available.
Yes, that also saves on policing.
I think capacity reduced to 20% and tickets sold game by game. I can't see any season tickets being sold for next season.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Has anyone tried to do this? It just keeps going around in a loop, from "click here & log in" which takes you straight back to "update for".
Clubs a ....
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Des Parrot
Has anyone tried to do this? It just keeps going around in a loop, from "click here & log in" which takes you straight back to "update for".
Clubs a ....
Same as you....going round in circles.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
8 to 10,000 STs will be more than enough.
Without a working vaccine there will be plenty with no intention of going into a football crowd.
So if there are no deaths or new virus cases (as in New Zealand) for a reasonable time, do you think this will still be the case ? There would be more chance of getting run over by a bus on the way to the match than catching Covid then.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lisvaneblue
I think the Club are being fair but naive if they think that option 2 will get underway any time soon. Social distancing
will be in place for some time to come, although may reduce to 1 metre.
When we are allowed to watch a live game again the max stadium capacity will be 8-10 thousand. Currently there are around 16- 18,000 season ticket holders, so chances of anyone retaining their current seat is a long shot, and how do they allocate tickets if demand exceeds capacity, as no doubt it will.
Im going for option 2 and hope the Club is able to justify its optimistic approach to its faithful season ticket holders
Option one will give the same opportunity and not reduce the clubs income at a time when they need it most.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
There must be quite a few season ticket holders who live in the same house as the person sat next to them (son, father, brother, etc).
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dml1954
Option one will give the same opportunity and not reduce the clubs income at a time when they need it most.
At a time when a lot of people are furloughed, not everyone can afford to donate via Option One.
Those using Option Two get the pro-rata "refund" for the rest of this season, also commit to contributing to ST sales for next season.
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Re: Season Ticket & Match Ticket Refunds
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccfc_is_my_life
At a time when a lot of people are furloughed, not everyone can afford to donate via Option One.
Those using Option Two get the pro-rata "refund" for the rest of this season, also commit to contributing to ST sales for next season.
Either option is absolutely fine. In my case my ‘refund’ would be somewhere in the region of £50, which I paid over 12 months ago. I would rather the club keep this and me pay the extra £50 next season but that is a personal decision so as not to put the club under more immediate financial strain and I appreciate that other people may have different views.