Thick people in positions of power, number 547 (football post)

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

How often is anyone saying BAME really though? How often are people seriously saying anything related to race at work?

As long as people are respectful of one another is any of this really an issue? I work with a lot of non white and non british people and we talk about loads of diverse topics and I have never found myself walking on eggshells.

Are other people's experiences very different to mine?

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Well obviously yes....There are lots of grievances taken out in the workplace with race right in the middle of the grievance and i hear BAME being mentioned everytime i tune into sky sports news.

My old dear is 86 and uses the word coloured

Shes not racist

And I know people in their twenties who use the term coloured but would never use the term nggr and are definitely not racist

The term is of course out dated and if this was a one off then fair enough but he seems a bit of an idiot

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Originally Posted by Whisperer

Well obviously yes....There are lots of grievances taken out in the workplace with race right in the middle of the grievance and i hear BAME being mentioned everytime i tune into sky sports news.

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But have you experienced it? I have worked for two big companies and have never felt like I was walking on eggshells.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

But have you experienced it? I have worked for two big companies and have never felt like I was walking on eggshells.

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I may have said the same thing if it was an isolated incident, but the examples shown towards the end of the piece make it clear that this was not the case.

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Exactly. It's not just the terms. It's the assumptions based on race. I have no problem with someone confusing "person of color" with "colored person".

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Originally Posted by Whisperer

Yes.

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What have you experienced that made you feel uncomfortable at work?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

What have you experienced that made you feel uncomfortable at work?

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LOL I said yes please just take my word for it.

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Originally Posted by TISS

There's plenty of non white people in this thread. And racism will carry on as long as we give people stupid labels like black, white or mixed race.

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As the majority are white in the UK , I guess they do need to discuss and fix it .

Football is an annomly, a lot of black players are involved and add great value , the authorities running football push forward the narrative of BLM and 'no to racism ' messages ,sadly they are reluctant to fix the disparity in its higher ranks and decision making roles.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

How often is anyone saying BAME really though? How often are people seriously saying anything related to race at work?

As long as people are respectful of one another is any of this really an issue? I work with a lot of non white and non british people and we talk about loads of diverse topics and I have never found myself walking on eggshells.

Are other people's experiences very different to mine?

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Wait a second: I happen to work for a very large tech firm that you will all know, and people talk about race related issues ALL THE TIME. We have meetings about it ALL THE TIME! There is even a KPI for DEI now, which I had never seen until a few months back.

It is easy enough to avoid being drawn on anything if are a lowly foot soldier like me, but I consciously shy away from interaction on this subject in work, for fear of not using today's fashionable term.

It can be a corp nightmare, but one that someone as senior as Clarke will have be trained to navigate sensitively.

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Originally Posted by Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond

Totally agree.

The media are the biggest culprits IMHO. It’s almost as if they WANT to cause friction between peoples based on their allocated colour.

Or their political views.

Or their religion.

Or their gender.

Or their age.

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Mainly the BBC

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I find it rather curious too - and I have a problem calling people 'black'. When is someone's skin colour (which is never really black) considered to be black when there are complexions of of many hues between the two extremes of black and white (and not that so-called white people are actually white anyway).

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So do I. I'd rather not be referred to as white either.

However 'black' is acceptable but 'negro' is not.

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Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird

So do I. I'd rather not be referred to as white either.

However 'black' is acceptable but 'negro' is not.

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As a matter of interest, does anyone on here know how the term 'negro' is considered in Spanish-speaking countries (and in relation to people) as it literally means 'black'? Is the word less culturally loaded in Spanish and because the English usage of that word arose predominantly in the context of the Deep South and in an English-speaking environment?
I remember the Evra v Suarez issue when the intended use of the word was disputed but my Spanish isn't good enough to understand the nuances involved:
https://www.theguardian.com/football...z-patrice-evra

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

As a matter of interest, does anyone on here know how the term 'negro' is considered in Spanish-speaking countries (and in relation to people) as it literally means 'black'? Is the word less culturally loaded in Spanish and because the English usage of that word arose predominantly in the context of the Deep South and in an English-speaking environment?
I remember the Evra v Suarez issue when the intended use of the word was disputed but my Spanish isn't good enough to understand the nuances involved:
https://www.theguardian.com/football...z-patrice-evra

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Was that the longest taking of a corner in the history of the game?

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

Wait a second: I happen to work for a very large tech firm that you will all know, and people talk about race related issues ALL THE TIME. We have meetings about it ALL THE TIME! There is even a KPI for DEI now, which I had never seen until a few months back.

It is easy enough to avoid being drawn on anything if are a lowly foot soldier like me, but I consciously shy away from interaction on this subject in work, for fear of not using today's fashionable term.

It can be a corp nightmare, but one that someone as senior as Clarke will have be trained to navigate sensitively.

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I know diversity training exists. But what I’m asking is do people on this forum seriously find themselves walking around on eggshells in work for fear of getting in trouble for saying something inappropriate?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I know diversity training exists. But what I’m asking is do people on this forum seriously find themselves walking around on eggshells in work for fear of getting in trouble for saying something inappropriate?

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I am certainly very very careful if and when these subjects arise (and they do so regularly - it isn’t training) and I do not actively participate if I can avoid it.

And it is interesting to see which people participate most (and those who don’t, like me)

So yes.

Fair enough it hasn’t been my experience at all. But you’re right I would rarely go out of my way to talk about subjects like race etc anyway

Well I for one find that we are still discussing the concept of race fascinating insomuch its the 21st century. Men and women from all across the globe have contributed towards unlocking the human genome - we know that skin colour is determined by genetics in the same way eye colour and hair colour is. Racists are basically science deniers.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

Wait a second: I happen to work for a very large tech firm that you will all know, and people talk about race related issues ALL THE TIME. We have meetings about it ALL THE TIME! There is even a KPI for DEI now, which I had never seen until a few months back.

It is easy enough to avoid being drawn on anything if are a lowly foot soldier like me, but I consciously shy away from interaction on this subject in work, for fear of not using today's fashionable term.

It can be a corp nightmare, but one that someone as senior as Clarke will have be trained to navigate sensitively.

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Not having worked since taking early retirement in 2004 can I ask.......

What on earth is a KPI for DEI when its at home???????

KPI = Key Performance indicater a buzz word that has crept in business the last 10 years !

There are a number of people that exist in this world

People who don't have a racist bone in their body ......thats very few , all of us of whatever colour can be prone to sometimes make assumptions about others and generalisations

People who generally try to treat people equally

People who are not racist but find that they can be accused of being so when they are clearly not

People who think things have all become a bit too politically correct , I don't agree with them but its a point to discuss, again not racist

Older generation people who use terms like coloured but would never call someone a nggr

And racists

I believe , having read the link that the fella who has resigned may not be a banging drum nazi but he's definitely got outdated views and is not suitable for the job

He is not one of the send em back brigade although plenty of people who use the language he does most certainly are

The way I look at it is this . If someone wants to say they think immigration into Cardiff for example is a bad thing then its possible to have some sort of sensible debate with them .

If some old fella down the pub says those coloured brothers who played for city ? The Bennett brothers ? I liked those , great players etc , then he's clearly not a racist

But if one of his mates on another table says I don't like blacks , they are lazy and all drug dealers he clearly is

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Originally Posted by MOZZER2

KPI = Key Performance indicater a buzz word that has crept in business the last 10 years !

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Thank you kind sir.


Yes we had that kind of thing in BT in the 90's but I am sure they were not called that. Some other phrase I have forgotten probably.


Just DEI to sort out now!

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

Thank you kind sir.


Yes we had that kind of thing in BT in the 90's but I am sure they were not called that. Some other phrase I have forgotten probably.


Just DEI to sort out now!

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https://builtin.com/diversity-inclus...-the-workplace

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

There are a number of people that exist in this world

People who don't have a racist bone in their body ......thats very few , all of us of whatever colour can be prone to sometimes make assumptions about others and generalisations

People who generally try to treat people equally

People who are not racist but find that they can be accused of being so when they are clearly not

People who think things have all become a bit too politically correct , I don't agree with them but its a point to discuss, again not racist

Older generation people who use terms like coloured but would never call someone a nggr

And racists

I believe , having read the link that the fella who has resigned may not be a banging drum nazi but he's definitely got outdated views and is not suitable for the job

He is not one of the send em back brigade although plenty of people who use the language he does most certainly are

The way I look at it is this . If someone wants to say they think immigration into Cardiff for example is a bad thing then its possible to have some sort of sensible debate with them .

If some old fella down the pub says those coloured brothers who played for city ? The Bennett brothers ? I liked those , great players etc , then he's clearly not a racist

But if one of his mates on another table says I don't like blacks , they are lazy and all drug dealers he clearly is

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I agree with most of what you say but not so much about political correctness, which is fine to a certain degree but when it becomes all consuming as it is nowadays, it can stifle debate and polarise opinions so that there is very little room for the middle ground. This relates more to religious and gender issues as opposed to the topic we are discussing in this thread by the way.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I know diversity training exists. But what I’m asking is do people on this forum seriously find themselves walking around on eggshells in work for fear of getting in trouble for saying something inappropriate?

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https://youtu.be/LUA5_NwJvLU

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

I agree with most of what you say but not so much about political correctness, which is fine to a certain degree but when it becomes all consuming as it is nowadays, it can stifle debate and polarise opinions so that there is very little room for the middle ground. This relates more to religious and gender issues as opposed to the topic we are discussing in this thread by the way.

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Have you got an example of political correctness stifling debate? Not questioning you, just genuinley currious.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

Not having worked since taking early retirement in 2004 can I ask.......

What on earth is a KPI for DEI when its at home???????

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I have no idea either, but they sound really clever. :hehe:

If we have a metric for this where I work, then I can guarantee that all big (and even medium sized) US tech companies are doing the same and more.

It is hard to keep up for middle aged has beens like me......:shrug:

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Have you got an example of political correctness stifling debate? Not questioning you, just genuinley currious.

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As a for instance, changing the name of Christmas celebrations to a more inclusive term (the name escapes me for the moment). It was a fait accompli decided upon by a faceless person or persons who did not consult the public, with the result that many became frustrated and annoyed by this decision. Most people could quote at least one other example of political correctness in which the public were not consulted but if they did this thread would run forever and a day !

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

As a for instance, changing the name of Christmas celebrations to a more inclusive term (the name escapes me for the moment). It was a fait accompli decided upon by a faceless person or persons who did not consult the public, with the result that many became frustrated and annoyed by this decision. Most people could quote at least one other example of political correctness in which the public were not consulted but if they did this thread would run forever and a day !

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Christmas is still called Christmas mate

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

As a for instance, changing the name of Christmas celebrations to a more inclusive term (the name escapes me for the moment). It was a fait accompli decided upon by a faceless person or persons who did not consult the public, with the result that many became frustrated and annoyed by this decision. Most people could quote at least one other example of political correctness in which the public were not consulted but if they did this thread would run forever and a day !

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Do you know a single person who doesn't call Christmas Christmas?

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Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef

I am not defending him in any way but his comment regarding black players is due to the age and times he was brought up in, coloured was not meant in any disparaging way, it was used more respectfully than other terms

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My best mate of 40+ years is of Jamaican heritage. I have always described him as coloured (I am now 61). He ain't bothered by it in the least. He never has been, nor will he ever be. It's always how I have described him, and how I always will. One or two feckwits have called me rascist over the years for not saying he is black. Stupid dumb feckwits! It's only the right-on, Marxist cum Nazi pc snowflakes that get their knickers in a twist about it anyway. Feckers should be put up against a wall and shot. Rant over....

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Originally Posted by lardy

Do you know a single person who doesn't call Christmas Christmas?

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That's not the point. There was a time not long ago when people were encourage to refer to Christmas as winter holidays, so as not to offend people of other faiths. Indeed in 2006 or thereabouts, approximately 75% of the largest employers in this country barred their staff from putting up Christmas decorations for that very reason. It's quite well documented. Thankfully, we appear to have moved on from that.

Maybe that's not the best of examples but the point I was trying to make in answer to Sludge's comment on political correctness was that in some instances decisions are taken at a political level that do not encourage debate, which in my opinion is not a good thing. In effect they are a fait accompli. I should add however that I am not referring to race issues in this instance.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Was that the longest taking of a corner in the history of the game?

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No, it wasn't. It's a genuine question about linguistics and a language that I am only partly competent in.

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

That's not the point. There was a time not long ago when people were encourage to refer to Christmas as winter holidays, so as not to offend people of other faiths. Indeed in 2006 or thereabouts, approximately 75% of the largest employers in this country barred their staff from putting up Christmas decorations for that very reason. It's quite well documented. Thankfully, we appear to have moved on from that.

Maybe that's not the best of examples but the point I was trying to make in answer to Sludge's comment on political correctness was that in some instances decisions are taken at a political level that do not encourage debate, which in my opinion is not a good thing. In effect they are a fait accompli. I should add however that I am not referring to race issues in this instance.

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That is complete bollocks

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Originally Posted by Moodybluebird

As a for instance, changing the name of Christmas celebrations to a more inclusive term (the name escapes me for the moment). It was a fait accompli decided upon by a faceless person or persons who did not consult the public, with the result that many became frustrated and annoyed by this decision. Most people could quote at least one other example of political correctness in which the public were not consulted but if they did this thread would run forever and a day !

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Come on mate you’re chatting bollocks :hehe:

Wasn’t this rumour invented by some looney in America because in the shops they were saying happy holidays to be inclusive of thanks giving and christmas?

They’ve never stopped putting Christmas decorations up in one town centre even in the U.K. ffs.

If it’s quite well documented find us one trustworthy source showing it.

You can’t say anything at work these days because of political correctness they’ve ever cancelled Christmas!

Are the majority of the board retired people reading the daily express or something?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Come on mate you’re chatting bollocks :hehe:

Wasn’t this rumour invented by some looney in America because in the shops they were saying happy holidays to be inclusive of thanks giving and christmas?

They’ve never stopped putting Christmas decorations up in one town centre even in the U.K. ffs.

If it’s quite well documented find us one trustworthy source showing it.

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People complaining that Christmas is banned is basically a Christmas tradition now.

This usually refers to "winterval"
Birmingham Council branded a lot of different events "winterval" including some Christmas ones. People started to claim that this was so as not to offend Muslims, and that idea caught on amongst some people. It was never true, and has been widely debunked.

If you google Winterval Myth you'll see a dozen or more articles on it.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

You can’t say anything at work these days because of political correctness they’ve ever cancelled Christmas!

Are the majority of the board retired people reading the daily express or something?

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You can't even say you're English these days without being arrested and thrown in jail.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

You can't even say you're English these days without being arrested and thrown in jail.

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What are you saying? That you get thrown in jail? Just for saying you're English? That happens these days?

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Originally Posted by TISS

Well I for one find that we are still discussing the concept of race fascinating insomuch its the 21st century. Men and women from all across the globe have contributed towards unlocking the human genome - we know that skin colour is determined by genetics in the same way eye colour and hair colour is. Racists are basically science deniers.

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Science means knowledge and on that subject:
About twenty years ago and out of a sense of devilment I used to go into extreme-right chatrooms on the internet. I never faked agreement with any of the sentiments expressed and I merely played the role of a naif. I would ask them to please explain the term Aryan as I was confused. After receiving an ill-informed reply or two I would gently ask them a few more 'naive' questions as my understanding was that it related to India/Iran and I didn't quite get it. Some of them didn't even realise that fact and others would tie themselves in knots as they were hugely ill-informed on the subject.

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Originally Posted by lardy

What are you saying? That you get thrown in jail? Just for saying you're English? That happens these days?

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:hehe: