Pubs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

the stats

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52380643

---

ohh..i've nothing to add i thought it said pubes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IanD

Hidden in a Times article, basically all this takes people's eyes off Brexit. If hospitality is closed = less demand for optional food and drink purchases. This frees up transport/warehousing to keep the flow of food going post Brexit. Better to have people moan about pubs closing/restrictions on groups gathering than have riots on the streets when the food doesnt get through to supermarkets....thinks government. Keep people at home, stifle protest, take back control.

---

More preudoi-political bullshit.

The virus and Brexit are 2 completely separate issues. You'll be telling us next the virus was manufactured and spread all over the world just so we, the British, took our attention off Brexit.
Oh hang on - isn't that what you already just implied?
Less food and drink in restaurants and pubs to free up transport for post brexit. :hehe:
Restrictions to prevent mass food riots? :hehe:

I suppose the Labour party would have stayed in Europe, so not needed the transport freed up, and could have let everyone do as the pleased in the pandemic because there would be no danger of food riots.

Yeah, right!!!!

you are joking. Please tell me this is a woosh!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by delmbox

We've never met but thanks to years on this board I think I know your rough demographic so I'm going to take a punt and assume that the times you've been to the pub have been similar to mine, i.e not down St Mary's St at night on a weekend, where I think it's a very different story.

---

Indeed, and if that's the case then shut the city and town centres from 6:00pm. But don't shut the entire country's pubs and restaurants down just because you can.

It's a pity the city council aren't in charge of this. Those twats would close down the city centre in a heartbeat given a chance.

:thumbup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Indeed, and if that's the case then shut the city and town centres from 6:00pm. But don't shut the entire country's pubs and restaurants down just because you can.

It's a pity the city council aren't in charge of this. Those twats would close down the city centre in a heartbeat given a chance.

:thumbup:

---

You got my vote as have all the well run local pubs and landlords and patrons who know how to behave across Wales its a disgusting decision and a shameful gutlessness one

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

There are grants available, whether or not they're enough to cover staff and other costs isn't something i know. The other issue is bosses who are using this pandemic as an excuse to bail out, reduce staff (many of whom are on zero hour contracts and minimum wage) Because they're not making enough for the shareholders -see Toby carvery-Harvester-Like they have no responsibility towards their staff, and that twat who runs Wetherspoons, ****ing about with workers conditions etc, while taking taxpayers cash. I do feel for the independents, sole traders etc. I just hope that these grants can keep them afloat and that when this shit is over that there is a boom in hospitality so that they can claw back whatever is lost.

---

It's not just about grants for owners, it is also about people who work all week and only get the weekend to pop to the pub and relax and have a few beers in a covid-controlled atmosphere. Instead people will give more profits to supermarkets and lash it up in each others houses and nothing will change.

Hasn't anyone noticed that once again the closure isn't for 2 weeks but 17 days. That is deliberately measured to take in 3 weekends when most restaurants and pubs do their business. It doesn't affect any other businesses in the same way so the 3 weekend scam can only be targeting one part of the economy.

Who even knows what the best thing to do any more is. The few times I was out before the lockdown everyone seemed to behaving themselves ok but who knows what goes on in other areas.

I think the main problem is the 4 governments in the U.K. are so focused on self governance that they couldn’t coordinate if their lives depended on it.

Wales only having the 2 week lock down was sensible when there was no extension to the furlough but then England decided they needed to lockdown so it was extended.

Just goes to show people who go into politics are ****ing useless at needing to do any actual problem solving.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

It's not just about grants for owners, it is also about people who work all week and only get the weekend to pop to the pub and relax and have a few beers in a covid-controlled atmosphere. Instead people will give more profits to supermarkets and lash it up in each others houses and nothing will change.

Hasn't anyone noticed that once again the closure isn't for 2 weeks but 17 days. That is deliberately measured to take in 3 weekends when most restaurants and pubs do their business. It doesn't affect any other businesses in the same way so the 3 weekend scam can only be targeting one part of the economy.

---

its also about young folk working and say in Uni, , earning some keep behind a bar , to help their families that cannot afford to support them , the pub is also an emotional support for some lonely single folk , there are moral issues at stake and perhaps ones of liberty and choice

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grangenders

People will do what they want, unfortunately that’s the culture we have now. By doing so it means we could have another 2-3 years of these lockdowns until enough people can be convinced to have a vaccine that will limit its spread sufficiently to allow the NHS to deal with the virus each winter and the backlog of other delayed conditions. Unfortunately the demise of the Great British pub will be a small price to pay for us to eventually come out of this.

---

No it is not, and it is totally unnecessary. Destroy something that has endured for hundreds of years, something which as epitomised British culture for generations just because they cannot think of anything better to do.
I've been castigated for saying this before but it seems to be being driven by people who really do want pubs closed permanently, just like you say

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Drakeford himself has stated that the biggest problem by a distance in Wales is household transmission. The evidence that transmission is occurring at any significant rate in pubs and restaurants is thin to put it mildly - the paper the WAG used to justify their recent firebreak lockdown confirmed as much.

You'll remember a couple of weeks ago that I was upset when the noble First Minister and his merry men deemed that the Welsh public couldn't be trusted to meet one another on a socially-distanced basis in each other's gardens. This meant I couldn't visit my terminally ill sister-in-law and, more importantly, most of her closest friends couldn't visit her either. It was, however, fine for people to meet up with others from up to four households in pubs and restaurants. The theory apparently was that the pubs and restaurants are such regulated environments at present that the risk of transmission in such settings was very slim. Nevertheless, here we are a couple of weeks further down the line and those places are shut again anyway.

As you know, I went to my local for the first time in months on a midweek evening a couple of weeks ago. It was like a military operation - table booked in advance, full details of me and my mate logged, table service only, plastic screens up between tables, masks required when using the toilets, etc. To be honest, it wasn't much fun, but it was good to see my friend again and I felt confident that the chance of picking up the virus from anyone except him was absolute zero. I was supposed to be seeing Kate for the first time since February on Saturday, but Drakeford's put a stop to that. I know I'm biased as I cannot stand the man, but this latest measure seems totally over the top to me.

---

Could well be over the top, i'm not disputing that, i've not read up on anything to be honest in order to sway my opinion. I would have thought (like delm alluded to) that the issue is much greater in the city centre bars, pubs, especially in the suburbs are essentially restaurants now, i'm sure that they can be regulated.

I do have some sympathy with Drakeford though, even with that prick Boris, mistakes are going to be made, the info isn't always going to add up etc. Drakeford is certainly more cautious. I'd like to see what he's basing his decision making on before i have a concrete opinion. Most people have had a **** full, but i don't think that anecdotal evidence based on preference helps anyone. We have to trust the scientists and medical bods.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

It's not just about grants for owners, it is also about people who work all week and only get the weekend to pop to the pub and relax and have a few beers in a covid-controlled atmosphere. Instead people will give more profits to supermarkets and lash it up in each others houses and nothing will change.

Hasn't anyone noticed that once again the closure isn't for 2 weeks but 17 days. That is deliberately measured to take in 3 weekends when most restaurants and pubs do their business. It doesn't affect any other businesses in the same way so the 3 weekend scam can only be targeting one part of the economy.

---

I couldn't care less about people who want to have a pint on the weekend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

Could well be over the top, i'm not disputing that, i've not read up on anything to be honest in order to sway my opinion. I would have thought (like delm alluded to) that the issue is much greater in the city centre bars, pubs, especially in the suburbs are essentially restaurants now, i'm sure that they can be regulated.

I do have some sympathy with Drakeford though, even with that prick Boris, mistakes are going to be made, the info isn't always going to add up etc. Drakeford is certainly more cautious. I'd like to see what he's basing his decision making on before i have a concrete opinion. Most people have had a **** full, but i don't think that anecdotal evidence based on preference helps anyone. We have to trust the scientists and medical bods.

---

And with all the vaccines coming online it won’t be last too much longer. Another few months of this shit and we can put it all behind us hopefully.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

No it is not, and it is totally unnecessary. Destroy something that has endured for hundreds of years, something which as epitomised British culture for generations just because they cannot think of anything better to do.
I've been castigated for saying this before but it seems to be being driven by people who really do want pubs closed permanently, just like you say

---

The concept of 'The Pub' isn't going to die because of covid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

I couldn't care less about people who want to have a pint on the weekend.

---

That is obvious. Just because you don't yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

And with all the vaccines coming online it won’t be last too much longer. Another few months of this shit and we can put it all behind us hopefully.

---

Well said :thumbup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

That is obvious. Just because you don't yourself.

---

Do you really think that i base my thoughts and decisions based on only what i like to do? Have a read through this thread snaggs, you're pulling the wrong person :thumbup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

Well said :thumbup:

---

Everyone is sick of it as well, we would all like to see friends and family more often. It’s been a shite year for me and Im sure it has been for everyone but it could always have been worse. All we need is a few more months of not doing exactly what we want all the time and it will save people’s lives.

The concept of Pubs isn’t going anywhere because of a few more months of covid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

That is obvious. Just because you don't yourself.

---

I want to have a pint at the weekend I’ve been locked down for a month but I don’t mind not for a few more months because it means fewer people will die. I can wait 2 months to have another pint to stop someone else never having a pint again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

I want to have a pint at the weekend I’ve been locked down for a month but I don’t mind not for a few more months because it means fewer people will die. I can wait 2 months to have another pint to stop someone else never having a pint again.

---

I agree, I just hope your preferred pub is still there to serve you. I think most people want to see evidence for the closure considering the First minister himself stated that pubs and restaurants aren't the problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tuerto

Do you really think that i base my thoughts and decisions based on only what i like to do? Have a read through this thread snaggs, you're pulling the wrong person :thumbup:

---

Not pulling anyone, it's you who used the phrase "I couldn't care less about people.............."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I agree, I just hope your preferred pub is still there to serve you. I think most people want to see evidence for the closure considering the First minister himself stated that pubs and restaurants aren't the problem.

---

There’s modelling of how the virus behaves in indoor spaces and plenty of statistics to back up how much the eat out to help out and pubs contributed to the second wave.

The end is in sight, people moaning about wanting a pint sounds a bit shit to me.

We all hope our pub is still here to save us, it’s shit how the sun is economy has suffered because of this and there should be more protection for independent businesses. But how many deaths is worth keeping a business open?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

There’s modelling of how the virus behaves in indoor spaces and plenty of statistics to back up how much the eat out to help out and pubs contributed to the second wave.

The end is in sight, people moaning about wanting a pint sounds a bit shit to me.

We all hope our pub is still here to save us, it’s shit how the sun is economy has suffered because of this and there should be more protection for independent businesses. But how many deaths is worth keeping a business open?

---

I agree with what you say, but preventing people from going for a drink in a properly controlled environment will lead to more people buying from a supermarket and having piss ups in homes where there is no social distancing control at all. Which is the lesser of the 2 evils?
Perhaps if the government barred all alcohols sales from everywhere EXCEPT pubs and restaurants that might have a far greater affect.
People often look at a problem from the wrong perspective.

Yeah I’ve got no idea how they manage that, did people stop going to each other’s houses when the pubs were open though? Or did they go to the pub then to each other’s houses?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

More preudoi-political bullshit.

The virus and Brexit are 2 completely separate issues. You'll be telling us next the virus was manufactured and spread all over the world just so we, the British, took our attention off Brexit.
Oh hang on - isn't that what you already just implied?
Less food and drink in restaurants and pubs to free up transport for post brexit. :hehe:
Restrictions to prevent mass food riots? :hehe:

I suppose the Labour party would have stayed in Europe, so not needed the transport freed up, and could have let everyone do as the pleased in the pandemic because there would be no danger of food riots.

Yeah, right!!!!

you are joking. Please tell me this is a woosh!

---

Fraid not. The "this" refers to lockdowns/tiers not a manufactured virus let loose on purpose. Felixstowe is already rammed with containers trying to get stuff into UK prior to Brexit. Getting empty containers back to Far East is also a logistical image. If the UK governments opened up hospitality big time a. Demand for food/drink would outstrip supply b. CV would spread so quickly as people mingle more that NHS would be overwhelmed and the Nightingale hospitals dont have the staff to make them function. It is in governments' interests to keep demand for optional food purchases in hospitality settings down. Very little about Brexit makes the news as a result.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I agree with what you say, but preventing people from going for a drink in a properly controlled environment will lead to more people buying from a supermarket and having piss ups in homes where there is no social distancing control at all. Which is the lesser of the 2 evils?
Perhaps if the government barred all alcohols sales from everywhere EXCEPT pubs and restaurants that might have a far greater affect.
People often look at a problem from the wrong perspective.

---

Didn't Drakeford once say it spreads more in homes , so why attack pubs , folk will now revert to home parties fueled by cheap booze ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I agree, I just hope your preferred pub is still there to serve you. I think most people want to see evidence for the closure considering the First minister himself stated that pubs and restaurants aren't the problem.

---

Surprised that restaurants have to shut too....with jan and Feb generally being quiet a lot might not open again, despite the fact a vaccine is to be rolled out in the next week or two.

An economy now wholly reliant on people swilling beer down their necks. That’s Britain 2020.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave Blue

An economy now wholly reliant on people swilling beer down their necks. That’s Britain 2020.

---

Who has made that claim (apart from you)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Indeed, and if that's the case then shut the city and town centres from 6:00pm. But don't shut the entire country's pubs and restaurants down just because you can.

It's a pity the city council aren't in charge of this. Those twats would close down the city centre in a heartbeat given a chance.

:thumbup:

---

It does seem unfair but it's probably true that if you shut down the city and town centres at 6pm and leave the quieter outskirts pubs open until late you'll have those full of young drinkers on a night out once town's shut

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by life on mars

Didn't Drakeford once say it spreads more in homes , so why attack pubs , folk will now revert to home parties fueled by cheap booze ?

---

So these people having house parties fuelled by cheap booze would otherwise behave responsibly if they could just go down the pub?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by delmbox

It does seem unfair but it's probably true that if you shut down the city and town centres at 6pm and leave the quieter outskirts pubs open until late you'll have those full of young drinkers on a night out once town's shut

---

Late? That’s a thing of the past. It was 10pm and as the great man told us, that was a permission, not an invitation.

Cheap booze in supermarkets has been putting the boot into pubs for a few years now, time was you’d very rarely see a trolley with beer in, now it’s the norm. When the pubs started to struggle 10/15 years ago, perhaps longer, I suggested put a pound on a can in a supermarket and knock a pound off a pint in a pub, anything to turn the tide. It’s gone too far now though I fear and covid is another massive nail in the coffin. So sad if, like us of a certain age, you remember the pub being the centre of the community, the landlord a respected character and going out for a pint, a game of skittles or darts was a reasonably cheap night out and a great way of bonding with people. Sat at home nursing a can just cannot be the same but that’s what people seem to be forced into doing to the detriment of society in my opinion.

I’m no supporter of the Welsh Government’s record on coronavirus restrictions but given the current situation I don’t see how they could do anything else but shutdown indoor hospitality. The R rate in Wales is way over 1 which means the virus is spreading exponentially. Transmission occurs in indoor environments where people meet and gather together in close proximity for extended periods of time like in pubs and restaurants.

Today’s decision is a political embarrassment for the Welsh Government and an admission that their decision to open everything up after the short firebreak was a serious error. It was just about the last thing they wanted to do but they had no choice. Their motivation taking this decision was to protect the NHS and save lives and they get my support for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NYCBlue

So these people having house parties fuelled by cheap booze would otherwise behave responsibly if they could just go down the pub?

---

I’m not sure the same type of people go to pubs. Pubs aren’t cheap. 10 cans at home = 2 pints in pub. Not much cash about, stay at home and get pissed wins

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delbert

I’m no supporter of the Welsh Government’s record on coronavirus restrictions but given the current situation I don’t see how they could do anything else but shutdown indoor hospitality. The R rate in Wales is way over 1 which means the virus is spreading exponentially. Transmission occurs in indoor environments where people meet and gather together in close proximity for extended periods of time like in pubs and restaurants.

Today’s decision is a political embarrassment for the Welsh Government and an admission that their decision to open everything up after the short firebreak was a serious error. It was just about the last thing they wanted to do but they had no choice. Their motivation taking this decision was to protect the NHS and save lives and they get my support for that.

---

That's pretty much how i see it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by splott parker

Cheap booze in supermarkets has been putting the boot into pubs for a few years now, time was you’d very rarely see a trolley with beer in, now it’s the norm. When the pubs started to struggle 10/15 years ago, perhaps longer, I suggested put a pound on a can in a supermarket and knock a pound off a pint in a pub, anything to turn the tide. It’s gone too far now though I fear and covid is another massive nail in the coffin. So sad if, like us of a certain age, you remember the pub being the centre of the community, the landlord a respected character and going out for a pint, a game of skittles or darts was a reasonably cheap night out and a great way of bonding with people. Sat at home nursing a can just cannot be the same but that’s what people seem to be forced into doing to the detriment of society in my opinion.

---

It’s the way today, lack of social skills, all social media. Pubs used to provide a ray of hope for folk who had no one to chat to at home. I used to love just heading out to pubs and clubs knowing I’d see loads of people I knew, didn’t need to arrange anything, you just knew they’d be there.....

While I can understand and, to a point, sympathise with those who look forward to going out for a pint, to meet up with friends etc, surely it's still about doing only what is essential, not doing as much as we are allowed? I've got friends who have refused to meet up with me since the March lockdown, who still won't go out anywhere, work from home, get their shopping home delivered. I had been looking forward to meeting up with some friends to watch the Swansea game, that won't happen now, but there's the off licence and zoom, which has been better than nothing.

December is traditionally a much busier time for pubs and the Covid rate is creeping up in Wales again. Of course, pubs aren't anywhere near as responsible for spreading Covid as schools and supermarkets, but I can live without visiting a pub for 3 weeks if it means any slight reduction in Covid transmission and more freedom around Christmas time.

As it is, it looks like the brief lockdown hasn't had the impact that was hoped. We could adopt the English tiered system, which would mean currently that all pubs and restaurants would be permanently shut. Clearly, closing schools and supermarkets is never going to happen as people need to buy food and schools, as a childcare facility, are essential for others to work. That means other things are fair game to closure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goats

It’s the way today, lack of social skills, all social media. Pubs used to provide a ray of hope for folk who had no one to chat to at home. I used to love just heading out to pubs and clubs knowing I’d see loads of people I knew, didn’t need to arrange anything, you just knew they’d be there.....

---

Social and sporting (admittedly for men) Pool teams, darts, skittles, affiliated to leagues and run properly. Football teams, it wasn't uncommon to have a firsts and a seconds run out of the local boozer. It must be said though that society has changed massively over the past 25 years, particularly the role of a man, add to that the demise of the traditional working class industries in manufacturing and heavy industry where people worked together for years, add to that family members etc. That side of a community is almost all gone. The days when a bloke could go on the piss for ten hours on a saturday and the wife and kids could lump it are long gone :hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delbert

Today’s decision is a political embarrassment for the Welsh Government and an admission that their decision to open everything up after the short firebreak was a serious error. It was just about the last thing they wanted to do but they had no choice. Their motivation taking this decision was to protect the NHS and save lives and they get my support for that.

---

I'm in total agreement here, though apart from the delay in implementing the initial lockdown in March, I find it difficult to blame our politicians too much for their decisions, whether here or in Westminster. Both countries and parties in charge have made mistakes, made decisions that don't make sense, changed their minds rapidly (which I don't mind as that shows they've learned from a mistake) and so on.

The last month or so has shown things for what they are. Senedd and Stormont announce Firebreak lockdown. Westminster decline, saying there's no need as the tier system is ok. R comes down in Wales. England u-turn and announce a lockdown. Wales reopens. Wales quickly realise the short lockdown didn't have the required effect and impose new measures. England's rate reducing.

Is there an end date to this closure? Or is he just going review it in 3 weeks or something?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Late? That’s a thing of the past. It was 10pm and as the great man told us, that was a permission, not an invitation.

---

when the pub you're in closes at 6pm, then 10pm is late