TAN had a good offer to sell the club, but told them to sod off?

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Originally Posted by Toadstool

Anyone notice that there is a Ccfc sponsor called Samtrust I think it is - finance company?

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Sam and trust in the same name 😂

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Originally Posted by Toadstool

Anyone notice that there is a Ccfc sponsor called Samtrust I think it is - finance company?

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Its Samtrade FX, some online brokerage firm

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Originally Posted by 2b2bdoo

I do agree, I think our problem will always be Tan trusted Malky and it backfired big time and I don't see that trust happening again.


Problem with "football men" is they don't tend to have the money or it isn't their money. Or even worse someone like Sam who had a little money but still trying to screw us decades on.

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He also trusted Warnock sadly. Other than the red fiasco Tan has been by far the best owner.
If he didn't sell because he's happy owning us then great.
If he didn't sell because he thought the buyers were no good for the club then he needs to be applauded.
People bring our debts up but we have never been looking our shoulders with court cases threatening us with closure.
Ridsdale wasn't has bad as he's made out i believe he did what he had to do here after the mess he was left.
As for Sam hammam if it was him behind a offer to buy the club thank god Tan told him to bugger off.
After selling Earnie , Kav , Collins and Gabbidon etc we were still 31 million in debt i think it would have been near 45 million now..
Hammam's company, Rudgwick was taking £900000 a year for management services 🙄
Fans who want Tan to sell should be careful what they wish for

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Originally Posted by UNDERHILL1927

Seems like oblivion is closer than most of us would like to admit at the moment.

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No we are safe Tan won't sell to Hammam so we are not close to oblivion..

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Originally Posted by stan butler

No we are safe Tan won't sell to Hammam so we are not close to oblivion..

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After the win yesterday my comments seems ridiculous but I was genuinely concerned we were sleep walking towards relegation.

I agree, Sam is a character, I invited him to my stag do and he rang me in work, to decline but to say we
needed more fans so to get making babies, 🤣 but I wouldn't want him anywhere near my club.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

Best owner we’ve ever had.

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Do you believe the club has progressed since Tan took full control? If so, in what respects?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Do you believe the club has progressed since Tan took full control? If so, in what respects?

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Yes - Stability

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Do you believe the club has progressed since Tan took full control? If so, in what respects?

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For Christ’s sake why can’t you let it go, Tan made a mistake changing the Clubs colours, he rectified that but some people just can’t forgive and forget. And yes the Club has progressed immensely since he took over. He is without doubt the best owner of CCFC in my lifetime.
If you choose not to support the Club that is your choice but don’t keep on with your negative innuendos and dig at Tan.
He isn’t the only one to ever make a mistake.

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Originally Posted by Former Labour leader

I'm not pretending to have any insider knowledge. The businesses that I know that Tan is involved in, and this is in the public domain are in retail, hotels, McDonald's franchises and car sales. All those have been affected by the pandemic. In that scenario cash flow is not going to be good and it really doesn't take a chartered accountant to suggest that he ought to consider selling loss making businesses. Doesnt mean to say he will though.

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'Wealth increase of 10 men during pandemic could buy vaccines for all'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-55793575

Although only focusing on those 10, who's to say that Mr Tan has not benefited from the pandemic financially?

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Originally Posted by Whisperer

Yes - Stability

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Even if he turned around and said the club still in debt for say £70 million, which is largely due to his multiple CEO bad mgt and poor mgt choice over the years. I’m not sure we are in debt by the way. As for Sam he hasnt the means to take us forward, he’s nothing compared to Tan in terms of wealth, all he would do is hand himself a nice 1 million a year salary and we’d immediately be in debt to the tune of how much he borrowed to by us.....

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Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef

For Christ’s sake why can’t you let it go, Tan made a mistake changing the Clubs colours, he rectified that but some people just can’t forgive and forget. And yes the Club has progressed immensely since he took over. He is without doubt the best owner of CCFC in my lifetime.
If you choose not to support the Club that is your choice but don’t keep on with your negative innuendos and dig at Tan.
He isn’t the only one to ever make a mistake.

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Funny enough the few who can't let it go are the same ones that said nothing when a certain other owner was taking us to the cleaners. Maybe Tan could buy their support with an ice cream :hehe::facepalm:

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Originally Posted by goats

Even if he turned around and said the club still in debt for say £70 million, which is largely due to his multiple CEO bad mgt and poor mgt choice over the years. I’m not sure we are in debt by the way. As for Sam he hasnt the means to take us forward, he’s nothing compared to Tan in terms of wealth, all he would do is hand himself a nice 1 million a year salary and we’d immediately be in debt to the tune of how much he borrowed to by us.....

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When we were facing court and winding up orders he was still taking £900k for his services company and even demanded a payment to his brother or cousin when we were close to the brink. Tan is not perfect but other than the red crap we are stable.

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Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef

For Christ’s sake why can’t you let it go, Tan made a mistake changing the Clubs colours, he rectified that but some people just can’t forgive and forget. And yes the Club has progressed immensely since he took over. He is without doubt the best owner of CCFC in my lifetime.

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:hehe::hehe::hehe:

Little aggressive there, Cleve. Are you having a bad weekend, perhaps?

You say the club has progressed 'immensely' since Tan took control, which effectively happened in 2012. That's your opinion, which is fair enough. So, given that you believe the club has progressed 'immensely' since 2012, in what ways would you say that progress is evident to anyone who is looking for differences between Cardiff City Football Club in 2012 and Cardiff City Football Club in 2021? Can you provide any examples of the immense progress to which you allude?

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Originally Posted by stan butler

Funny enough the few who can't let it go are the same ones that said nothing when a certain other owner was taking us to the cleaners. Maybe Tan could buy their support with an ice cream

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It appears that there are those who simply cannot let the Hammam era go and bring it up frequently. The debate here is about the club's progress or otherwise under the stewardship of Vincent Tan, not Sam Hammam. The latter is long gone. The former is the club's current owner.

Comparing Vincent Tan with Sam Hammam is about as valid as comparing Mick McCarthy with Dave Jones.

I think Dalman was bullshitting. I dont believe there was a good offer.

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Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird

'Wealth increase of 10 men during pandemic could buy vaccines for all'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-55793575

Although only focusing on those 10, who's to say that Mr Tan has not benefited from the pandemic financially?

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Strange. We have had several posters on here telling us we don't have any money and we can't afford this or that, the situation has damaged the businesses he owns etc. So maybe our penniless owner may not be so broke. As I keep saying no one knows

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

It appears that there are those who simply cannot let the Hammam era go and bring it up frequently. The debate here is about the club's progress or otherwise under the stewardship of Vincent Tan, not Sam Hammam. The latter is long gone. The former is the club's current owner.

Comparing Vincent Tan with Sam Hammam is about as valid as comparing Mick McCarthy with Dave Jones.

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Perhaps it is quite valid as Dave Jones is long gone, with no mention of a return whatsoever, he hasn’t reared his ugly head over the intervening years suggesting/demanding that the club are still in debt to him, threatening legal action etc. Whereas Hammam, although long gone, is still hovering around like a bad smell with his name thrown into the hat, whether true or not, whenever potential buy outs are mentioned. Dave Jones has moved on and disassociated himself from us completely I’d imagine whereas Sam Hammam certainly hasn’t.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

:hehe::hehe::hehe:

Little aggressive there, Cleve. Are you having a bad weekend, perhaps?

You say the club has progressed 'immensely' since Tan took control, which effectively happened in 2012. That's your opinion, which is fair enough. So, given that you believe the club has progressed 'immensely' since 2012, in what ways would you say that progress is evident to anyone who is looking for differences between Cardiff City Football Club in 2012 and Cardiff City Football Club in 2021? Can you provide any examples of the immense progress to which you allude?

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Been in Premier League twice, finished second in Championship with club record number of points and automatic promotion, own the stadium outright, debt to equity conversion, charitable trust/foundation created supporting local communities with millions of pounds of Tans money, training ground facilities vastly improved, academy creation, etc etc. Is that enough ?

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

:hehe::hehe::hehe:

Little aggressive there, Cleve. Are you having a bad weekend, perhaps?

You say the club has progressed 'immensely' since Tan took control, which effectively happened in 2012. That's your opinion, which is fair enough. So, given that you believe the club has progressed 'immensely' since 2012, in what ways would you say that progress is evident to anyone who is looking for differences between Cardiff City Football Club in 2012 and Cardiff City Football Club in 2021? Can you provide any examples of the immense progress to which you allude?

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How can you forget the two glorious seasons in the sun??

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Been in Premier League twice, finished second in Championship with club record number of points and automatic promotion, own the stadium outright, debt to equity conversion, charitable trust/foundation created supporting local communities with millions of pounds of Tans money, training ground facilities vastly improved, academy creation, etc etc. Is that enough ?

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:thumbup:

Thank you dml, my thoughts exactly.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Whereas Hammam, although long gone, is still hovering around like a bad smell with his name thrown into the hat, whether true or not, whenever potential buy outs are mentioned.

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What do you reckon the chances of Sam Hammam ever returning to the CCFC boardroom are, either as an owner or a board member? I'd say absolute zero.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

What do you reckon the chances of Sam Hammam ever returning to the CCFC boardroom are, either as an owner or a board member? I'd say absolute zero.

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It's soundbite bullshit in my opinion. Hammam isn't relevant anymore, he spouts a bit of shit and the local rag publishes it, threatens a bit of legal action based on absolutely nothing. He's a bit of a joke, it seems.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Been in Premier League twice, finished second in Championship with club record number of points and automatic promotion, own the stadium outright, debt to equity conversion, charitable trust/foundation created supporting local communities with millions of pounds of Tans money, training ground facilities vastly improved, academy creation, etc etc. Is that enough ?

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Well, let's see now.....

Been in the Premier League twice - been relegated twice. Currently occupying a lower position in the Championship than when Tan assumed control. Could that be described as progress?

Own the stadium outright - but wasn't that the case before Tan arrived? Didn't he buy a football club that already owned its own stadium? If not, who owned it when he arrived?

Debt to equity conversion - so how large was the club's debt when Tan took control? And how much debt is the club in now? Do you know? I confess I don't.

Charitable trust foundation supporting local communities with millions of pounds of Tan's money - I'll have to bow to your greater knowledge on that one as I didn't know such a thing existed.

Training ground facilities vastly improved - I'll bow to your greater knowledge on that one too. I was under the impression that Tan promised to build new training facilities at the time of the rebrand, but those plans never came to fruition. I believed the club doesn't own it's own training facilities, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.

Academy creation - wasn't the academy created long before Tan arrived?

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

It's soundbite bullshit in my opinion. Hammam isn't relevant anymore, he spouts a bit of shit and the local rag publishes it, threatens a bit of legal action based on absolutely nothing. He's a bit of a joke, it seems.

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Indeed, although I'm not sure he's actually said anything to the local press for a long time. I could be wrong, but I think the mentions of Hammam's name have been made by Mehmet Dalman in recent years, not Hammam himself.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Well, let's see now.....

Been in the Premier League twice - been relegated twice. Currently occupying a lower position in the Championship than when Tan assumed control. Could that be described as progress?

Own the stadium outright - but wasn't that the case before Tan arrived? Didn't he buy a football club that already owned its own stadium? If not, who owned it when he arrived?

Debt to equity conversion - so how large was the club's debt when Tan took control? And how much debt is the club in now? Do you know? I confess I don't.

Charitable trust foundation supporting local communities with millions of pounds of Tan's money - I'll have to bow to your greater knowledge on that one as I didn't know such a thing existed.

Training ground facilities vastly improved - I'll bow to your greater knowledge on that one too. I was under the impression that Tan promised to build new training facilities at the time of the rebrand, but those plans never came to fruition. I believed the club doesn't own it's own training facilities, but perhaps I'm wrong about that.

Academy creation - wasn't the academy created long before Tan arrived?

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Can you name a better owner we’ve had other than Tan?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Can you name a better owner we’ve had other than Tan?

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The Junior Bluebirds.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

It's soundbite bullshit in my opinion. Hammam isn't relevant anymore, he spouts a bit of shit and the local rag publishes it, threatens a bit of legal action based on absolutely nothing. He's a bit of a joke, it seems.

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Still has a few fanboys who love him dearly.
They criticise every owner except Hammam even though he rebranded our badge and took us heavily into debt and close to closure hhmmm.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

The Junior Bluebirds.

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:hehe:

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Originally Posted by stan butler

Still has a few fanboys who love him dearly.
They criticise every owner except Hammam even though he rebranded our badge and took us heavily into debt and close to closure hhmmm.

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He also wanted to change the Club colours to GREEN.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

The Junior Bluebirds.

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Very good.!
Seriously though, there hasn’t been a better owner has there? I know anyone in your bad books are in there for eternity, and you saw this thread as an opportunity to stick another pin in your Tan doll, I understand 😂😂

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Seriously though, there hasn’t been a better owner has there? I know anyone in your bad books are in there for eternity, and you saw this thread as an opportunity to stick another pin in your Tan doll, I understand

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To be honest, I don't really see the value in comparing Vincent Tan with any previous club owners. They're all either dead or gone, never to return, so what's the point? Different times, different situations. I also don't believe we'll be able to truly evaluate the Tan era until he finally slings his hook. After all, who knows where the club will end up under him?

I'm just interested and a little bit puzzled by those who apparently hold VT in such high regard. I don't really understand what it is he's supposed to have done which makes them think so highly of him. Much of it maybe fiction judging by dml1954's submission and Cleeve's endorsement of that post.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

To be honest, I don't really see the value in comparing Vincent Tan with any previous club owners. They're all either dead or gone, never to return, so what's the point? Different times, different situations. I also don't believe we'll be able to truly evaluate the Tan era until he finally slings his hook. After all, who knows where the club will end up under him?

I'm just interested and a little bit puzzled by those who apparently hold VT in such high regard. I don't really understand what it is he's supposed to have done which makes them think so highly of him. Much of it maybe fiction judging by dml1954's submission and Cleeve's endorsement of that post.

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Why is Sam Hammam held in such high esteem by some then? If you can find any defence for that then I will be amazed.

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Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef

Why is Sam Hammam held in such high esteem by some then? If you can find any defence for that then I will be amazed.

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I'd guess it's because when Hammam bought the club it was languishing in League Two and when he stepped aside it was top of the Championship - in it's highest league position for more than thirty years. Don't forget that before Hammam took over at Cardiff City in 2000, the club hadn't been in the second tier of English football since 1985 - it was in a desperate state and the fans had largely lost hope.

But why are we talking about Sam Hammam? Why are you and a handful of others so fixated on him? Why not explain what it is about Vincent Tan's ownership that you find so appealing?

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Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef

He also wanted to change the Club colours to GREEN.

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The difference being Hammam took advice and didnt let his arrogance mean he did it anyway.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I'd guess it's because when Hammam bought the club it was languishing in League Two and when he stepped aside it was top of the Championship - in it's highest league position for more than thirty years. Don't forget that before Hammam took over at Cardiff City in 2000, the club hadn't been in the second tier of English football since 1985 - it was in a desperate state and the fans had largely lost hope.

But why are we talking about Sam Hammam? Why are you and a handful of others so fixated on him? Why not explain what it is about Vincent Tan's ownership that you find so appealing?

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Yet when Hammam left, the Club was on the verge of liquidation, Ridsdale then TG came on board but there were still winding up orders still happening. Tan came in and brought stability and more success to the Club. As has been said he made mistakes Changing the colours to red, got stitched up by managers, but overall the Club has still had a relatively successful period under him - more so than any other in the past 60 years. So there you have it

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Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef

Tan came in and brought stability and more success to the Club.

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The word 'stability' has been used several times in this thread, presumably in relation to the club's financial position. But can a club that is reportedly deep in debt, allegedly losing an additional £3 million a month while stagnating in the middle of the Championship and apparently entirely dependent upon the continued financial support of a 68 year-old Malaysian businessman genuinely be considered to be stable?

You have your thoughts, others on here have theirs. This could go on for ever and a day and we’d all have the same opinions. As far as I’m concerned end of discussion.

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Originally Posted by Cleve van Leef

As far as I’m concerned end of discussion.

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It's been great talking to you.

:hehe:

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

It's been great talking to you.

:hehe:

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Always is.
:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

The word 'stability' has been used several times in this thread, presumably in relation to the club's financial position. But can a club that is reportedly deep in debt, allegedly losing an additional £3 million a month while stagnating in the middle of the Championship and apparently entirely dependent upon the continued financial support of a 68 year-old Malaysian businessman genuinely be considered to be stable?

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I totally agree with your sentiments and analysis.

A couple of weeks back I asked the same question as to why Tan turned down what he has stated to be a 'good" offer without explaining his reasons. I was taken back by many of the defensive replies to my question, many from some of the same people who have contributed to this thread.

I couldn't understand why the question was thought of being an attack on Tan not why no one else appeared interested to speculate on the guy's motives for turning down the offer.

If he had straight out said he had no confidence on the proposed new owners and thought they might be detrimental to Cardiff City's well being that would have been appreciated. He would have been regarded I'm high esteem I think.

On the other hand I speculated that if he was holding out for a better than "good" offer in the present climate and when losing £3 million a month, then it becomes a little more fanciful.

I posed the question not as an attack on Tan but to try to fathom out what are his plans for the club. I hated the rebrand but in fairness to Tan that's now in the past. I've got no grievance with the chap but see the club stagnating at best under his ownership. He has neither the personnel not structure in place to inspire confidence we can better develop.

I don't think it's a question of who has been the best owner of the club. Let's be fair we've never been blessed with anyone too spectacular in our history. I personally don't think Tan has the ambition or wherewithal to take us any further and I would love to know what he wants to do with us. Is that such a crime?