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corporation tax has been 12.5% since the mid 2000s, in the mid 90s it was 40% ish an 50% before that.Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
The same points would apply to Ireland before they cut corporation tax (to a little bit less than us) as they do now.
Do you think if Ireland had remained as part of the UK from 1921 until 1991 it would have done as well as it did independently?
Yes, you're right, but I'm not entirely convinced it was to preserve the Welsh language (which some believe was its major contribution) and it also required a Monarch to grant it. I think what's also key, is that while it's always stated that The Bible was translated I believe it was The New Testament from Greek which fits in with her Reformation agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
BTW I should point out that I'm not entirely religious or in favour of church integration of the state so I have no particular affiliation. Also I don't believe she or any other Monarch is appointed by God. But I could be wrong!
I've wondered if it was done to stop those Welshies from moaning. I'll need to do some research into it, but I'm aware that the reformation wasn't always well received in other Celtic countries and I can imagine parts of Wales not being happy with this new Anglican church. Liz thought of a way of making the Welsh accept it, by giving them a Welsh language service to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew
I was only looking at this from a historical, rather than a religious angle. Church history is relatively well documented when, in many cases, little else exists.
And freeze the services it pays for no doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadstool
There have been 62 countries that have gained independence from the UK (England), none have asked to return or have returned, why if the UK is such a benefit?
There is mis-information constantly spread about Wales and it's finances after becoming independent, a lot of countries both smaller and bigger and richer and poorer have left the UK and been successful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
Ok I'll bite.
Why wouldn't there be a vaccine if not for left wing policy??
The small payments to the HOL pale into insignificance where the real public money is lostQuote:
Originally Posted by Wozza16
Is not the NHS an example of left wing policy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
The NHS is the result of an investigation into health care which resulted in a cross party report known as the Beveridge report. One of the prime movers in this was Churchill who I think was then sitting as a Liberal MP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Good as he was Bevan just happened to be the health minister who actioned it but it would have happened anyway. There were not really any alternatives.
Yet Churchill and the Tories voted against implementation of that report and the creation of the NHS.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
They did, 21 times, and Churchill was the PM when it came out in 1942 and was very non committal in his reaction to it, understandable perhaps because he had other things on his mind at the time but he was definitely not one of the "prime movers"Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...built-the-nhs/
https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk...welfare-state/
And in 1951 Winston Churchill's Tory government introduced prescription charges (they couldn't wait!).Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
It should be noted though that three years after the formation of the NHS, Bevan resigned after the introduction of fees for dentures, dental care, and glasses. There's no doubt that the guy was instrumental in the formation of and the principles of the NHS. If Atlee hadn't had won, there's no way the Tories would have implemented it no matter the cross-party consensus that something urgent re. the nation's health needed to be done post-WWII.
never trust a toryQuote:
Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew
Never trust most politicians of ANY persuasion!!Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
I didn't say that, did I? The rest you can work out for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
Did you know that an anagram of 'never trust a tory' is 'overture tyrants'? How weird is that? Probably not as weird as me knowing it, admitting it, and posting it publicly though. I just couldn't stop myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Was there an actual vote against the Beveridge report???? I know that Churchill was lukewarm towards some of it but the conservative manifesto for the 1945 election shows that they were planning to introduce some of it if they had regained power.
There was a section on setting up a National Insurance system and on Health it says that -
"Everyone will contribute to the cost, and no one will be denied the attention, the treatment or the appliances he requires because he cannot afford them,"
Now, it does not say free at the point of use but the following newsreel of Henry Willink Churchill's Minister of Health explaining their White Paper of 1944 does say
"There will be no charge for treatment" this would cover any medicines, specialist advice and hospital treatment.
And in the next sentence he talks about a "National Health Service"
It was "not a cut and dried scheme" and the proposals were for discussion in parliament and the whole country
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyjbUK88CB4
I must admit I did expect Harry Enfield to appear as Grayson together with Mr Cholmondley Warner at some stage!!
More seriously it does show the intent of the Tories if they had got into power again. Whether they would have carried this intention through of course is another matter and I know many among you will dismiss it out of hand.
Undoubtedly it would have been different in some aspects of the final Labour NHS (in particular the Tories did not plan to nationalise all the local voluntary hospitals and take control away from the local authorities as Labour did) and this probably in part explains why they voted so firmly against Labour final version( which in itself was not supported by all those in government. Herbert Morrison for example was against transferring hospitals from the Local authorities to Central Government.
It is also quite possibly true that the Conservatives were guilty, as many parties out of government are, of opposition for oppositions sake; they couldn't implement their policy and didn't want anyone else to bring in an alternative.
Whatever the reason it was a mistake in my view because it has given Labour supporters the excuse down the years to say that there would have been no NHS without Labour.
I'm not sure In agree with this. What I do agree with is that you cannot take away from Labour the praise for giving us a National Health Service. The Conservatives and Liberals cannot claim this.
What they can say however is that they were part of a National Consensus arising out of the Beveridge report which saw that whichever party had got to power in 1945 it is probable that we would have had some form of National Health Service.
Different versions no doubt. And to be honest I have no idea whether Labours version which has lasted to this day was the best model or whether a less centralised model would have worked better in the long run.
But a National Health Service was probably inevitable after Beveridge.
l
No you are right. I phrased that badlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
What I meant to say was why wouldn't we be having a vaccine under the NHS.
And by that I presume you meant there would have no NHS if not for Labour.
My separate post in response to Eric gives you my view on this
This is a genuine question to which I have no answer. I could look it up on google, but I think it would be more interesting added to the mix in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
Are America having a mass vaccination program and is it free for everyone?
Once asked, needed to find out. America is paying for all of its citizens to have Covid vaccinations, a decision made by the Republicans. I'm glad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Yes, i don't believe that we would have an NHS if it wasn't for Labour, although Blair did more than enough to privatise it through the back door.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
This Conservative government collects more in taxes than any other government in historyQuote:
Originally Posted by cityhammer
Since the inception of the NHS we've had a Conservative government for considerably longer than a Labour government, yet we still have the NHS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
No Tory Government is going to remove free at point of use, no matter what you think.
Yup, because they wouldn't ****ing dare :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback
there are certainly senior Tories who would very much like to do away with the NHS, because they truly believe that the free market would deliver better value - always and In every scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feedback
The Britannia Unchained gang includes Patel, Raab and Truss. These people are truly scary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Until political party manifesto promises made during election campaigns are made a legal requirement they are just not worth the paper they are written on. I'm tired of all elected parties getting away with not implementing their election manifestos or twisting them like the rules in Animal Farm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elwood Blues
We would have far more people interested and voting if parties and politicians had to keep their election promises.
And just to add, I am one of those who think they would never have followed through in 1945. It's just not in Tory DNA. So thank goodness it's just an academic discussion (one I find interesting BTW so I'm not arguing for the sake of it).
But they're trying their best, they got Brexit done and just imagine if Corbyn was PM now - I think that's all of the boxes on the check list ticked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew
Yup. That's them all done.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson