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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
You just have to browse social media , you will see that is the impression , even among Labour voters
Even on here he's been called duckford , dickford
He's no leader , might be a nice bloke but he's no leader like Carwyn Jones was
You can gauge peoples opinions on the Internet and multi media far quicker than talking to people in the street
As far as I can recall that was known when he was voted in. His strengths were that he is one of the most intelligent people in the Senedd and knowledgeable about his brief.
Quote:
What is Drakefordism? — Liz Silversmith:
https://hiraethblogcymru.medium.com/...h-9fb73a1a3d21
1) Government as a force for good
(further explanation for each point discussed in the link)
2) Universal rather than mean-tested services
3) Cooperation is better than competition
4) Improve the collective voice, not individual choice
5) Service users and service providers are engaged in a joint enterprise with high trust, not merely servers and recipients
6) And finally, pursuing the equality of outcome rather than the equality of opportunity
Mark ends his pamphlet on a prophetic note: that “the environmental dimension of a more equal Wales will have to move more centre stage”. This was back in 2008, before Extinction Rebellion; before the more urgent warnings from the UN; before we accepted — even if scientists had been warning for years — that the nature crisis and the climate crisis will engulf us all unless we do something about it.
Ever the professor, ever the forward-thinker, he is both the architect of clear red water and the inventor of Drakefordism.
Most criticism hasn't focused on who he is, what he believes or the choices he's lead. Sometimes that has worked in his favour and sometimes it has not, but isn't the plan for him to step down within the next term as happened when he took over the role? Deciding to vote Labour or not on basis of Drakeford is only relevant for short term.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Why are you so fixated over what other peoples politics may be?
Again you avoid what has been said and try to deflect attention on a different course.
But what you said does speak volumes of your opinion of the people you want to see governing us. and it would appear your opinion is not very high.
And it seems you are concerned that the conservatives may make gains at the election. I suppose this must mean there are more completely stupid people in Wales that you thought there was. After all they must be mustn't they?
They shouldn't be allowed to vote, they're too stupid.
Interesting suggestion. I do worry about anyone who would want RT leading the country.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Interesting suggestion. I do worry about anyone who would want RT leading the country.
This is an election for the parliament as a whole, and not a presidential election. you're voting for a party to govern, you're not voting for a leader outright.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
the only sensible option when choosing your party allegiance at this election is Abolish
:thumbup:
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
the only sensible option when choosing your party allegiance at this election is Abolish
:thumbup:
I know you're on a windup Damien but did you see their party spokesman on Wales Politics this morning?
Comedy gold :hehe:
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Why are you so fixated over what other peoples politics may be?
Again you avoid what has been said and try to deflect attention on a different course.
But what you said does speak volumes of your opinion of the people you want to see governing us. and it would appear your opinion is not very high.
And it seems you are concerned that the conservatives may make gains at the election. I suppose this must mean there are more completely stupid people in Wales that you thought there was. After all they must be mustn't they?
They shouldn't be allowed to vote, they're too stupid.
I know what your politics are , you are a tory
Anyone who votes tory isn't in my phone book
And thats the way it is
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hilts
Interesting suggestion. I do worry about anyone who would want RT leading the country.
Hes promised loads
All uncosted
Dreadful bunch of chanchers
Boris mk 2
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I know what your politics are , you are a tory
Anyone who votes tory isn't in my phone book
And thats the way it is
You know sweet FA about me! Failed!!
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Claude Blue
I know you're on a windup Damien but did you see their party spokesman on Wales Politics this morning?
Comedy gold :hehe:
Unfortunately not. Can I assume qualities such as charisma, articulation and intelligence were bereft of this interview?
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Labour won't have your vote because mark drakeford doesn't believe in devolving the benefits system to Wales?
I want him gone for a lot of reasons but if we do take over the welfare system its going to cost a shed load of money to pay for it
How are we going to raise that money ?
How are the current UK government paying for it?
Hmmm...
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
How are the current UK government paying for it?
Hmmm...
An independent Wales would have to borrow an awful lot of money.
Where would it borrow it from?
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
You know sweet FA about me! Failed!!
I know on every political thread you sound like a tory pent up with rage
That will do for me
People who never say who they vote for are almost always tories
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Claude Blue
An independent Wales would have to borrow an awful lot of money.
Where would it borrow it from?
Tom Jones
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
How are the current UK government paying for it?
Hmmm...
The economic success of London and the South East
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
The economic success of London and the South East
Feedie, humour a simpleton like me.
Are the current UK government estimated to be in over 2 trillion quids worth of debt, Covid-19 has probably upped that number?
Did they balance the books through their austerity measures?
Did GDP fall during austerity?
Hasn’t Brexit further fuucked the economy?
If we are in 2 trillion quid over our heads where all this money from Laaaandaaan Town going? It’s not ending up in Perthcelyn.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
Feedie, humour a simpleton like me.
Are the current UK government estimated to be in over 2 trillion quids worth of debt, Covid-19 has probably upped that number?
Did they balance the books through their austerity measures?
Did GDP fall during austerity?
Hasn’t Brexit further fuucked the economy?
If we are in 2 trillion quid over our heads where all this money from Laaaandaaan Town going? It’s not ending up in Perthcelyn.
I may be wrong but I understood the government funded its Covid spending (and much else besides) by printing more money. The effect of that is not to add to the debt but to fuel inflation. Inflation that will hit the poor harder than the rich.
That hasn't stopped most of the main client journalists (Peston, Kuenssberg, Rigby etc) repeating the line that Sunak has been borrowing like it's going out of fashion - people before pennies! - and in promoting that lie they are happily preparing the ground for the next round of austerity (to reduce the debt!).
Sunak will turn into Osbourne II in about a year whether he is Prime Minister by then or still Chancellor.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I may be wrong but I understood the government funded its Covid spending (and much else besides) by printing more money. The effect of that is not to add to the debt but to fuel inflation. Inflation that will hit the poor harder than the rich.
That hasn't stopped most of the main client journalists (Peston, Kuenssberg, Rigby etc) repeating the line that Sunak has been borrowing like it's going out of fashion - people before pennies! - and in promoting that lie they are happily preparing the ground for the next round of austerity (to reduce the debt!).
Sunak will turn into Osbourne II in about a year whether he is Prime Minister by then or still Chancellor.
Cheers Jon, it’s always reassuring to know that the government’s SPAD for dealing with monetary arrangements during Covid-19 was Wrexham’s Mickey Thomas:biggrin:
Agree with you 100% austerity on steroids is on the way.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I know on every political thread you sound like a tory pent up with rage
That will do for me
People who never say who they vote for are almost always tories
Pent up with rage? You really are a ****ing idiot. Live in your drug scrambled world mate. Jog on!!
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Pent up with rage? You really are a ****ing idiot. Live in your drug scrambled world mate. Jog on!!
Me thinks thou doth protest too much my lord
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
Cheers Jon, it’s always reassuring to know that the government’s SPAD for dealing with monetary arrangements during Covid-19 was Wrexham’s Mickey Thomas:biggrin:
Agree with you 100% austerity on steroids is on the way.
Debt is good
Sam Hammam said so
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Me thinks thou doth protest too much my lord
Pot? Kettle? You're like a has-been but probably due to the drugs you're more like a never-was. Go back to your TV.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xsnaggle
Pot? Kettle? You're like a has-been but probably due to the drugs you're more like a never-was. Go back to your TV.
I am mortally wounded with that one
Its like listening to Dale Winton
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Thought I'd dip back in after my response to Sludge's comments yesterday.
Mark Drakeford probably has the highest profile of any Welsh politician since devolution and he can thank his handling of the pandemic for that.
I think it's good for Wales that the public have recognised that we can make some of our own choices and will start the take the Wales' Government seriously.
I voted for Eluned and will do again when MD stands down if reelected of course. I am acquainted with her and her family, and I can guarantee she is committed to Wales.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
Feedie, humour a simpleton like me.
I'm taking the 5th
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
Are the current UK government estimated to be in over 2 trillion quids worth of debt, Covid-19 has probably upped that number?
probably nearer £2.2trn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
Did they balance the books through their austerity measures?
prior to Covid19 this government were getting towards balancing the books, which wasn't a bad effort overall. However there were social costs involved in doing this[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
Did GDP fall during austerity?
GDP hit £3.1trn prior to Brexit, then it has fallen and is forecast to be around £2.6trn this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
Hasn’t Brexit further fuucked the economy?
yes, quite considerably. Who knew!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
If we are in 2 trillion quid over our heads where all this money from Laaaandaaan Town going? It’s not ending up in Perthcelyn.
Wales currently benefits from around £15bn in fiscal transfers each year. That is £5k for every man woman and child. We are not going to make those numbers up by selling water to the English or by developing green energy for sale. Wales' topography does not lend itself to a modern day economy, and as such we need to be careful about what we truly want from independence, if that is the goal. Because economically, we'd be a lot worse off than we are now.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
If people genuinely believe the United Kingdom is a equally treated union is kidding themselves, I think everybody would prefer that but it hasn't happened in the past 500 years so it isn't in the next.
I believe people had a big wake up call when the UK government rejected the request for extended furlough for Welsh workers only to extend it a week later when England needed it, if this doesn't show the position Wales is in in the list then nothing will.
Also people saying Wales would be too poor is like a broken record, if you made a country and gave it the best possible chance to be a rich country you would give it highly sought after resources, Wales had coal, copper, slate at the best possible times and now it looks set to have an abundance of renewable energy potential and insane amounts of water in an emerging climate crisis, yet has some of the poorest regions in Europe?
All this after 500 years in the worlds "best" union, so I'm voting Plaid, the only party who will truly care about Wales and maximising it's potential. Labour voter's are flipping to Plaid as Adam Price is clearly well educated and experienced and as it's a good protest vote against Labour as Plaid won't be able to get a majority but won't destroy democracy like the right wing parties.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wozza16
If people genuinely believe the United Kingdom is a equally treated union is kidding themselves, I think everybody would prefer that but it hasn't happened in the past 500 years so it isn't in the next.
I believe people had a big wake up call when the UK government rejected the request for extended furlough for Welsh workers only to extend it a week later when England needed it, if this doesn't show the position Wales is in in the list then nothing will.
Also people saying Wales would be too poor is like a broken record, if you made a country and gave it the best possible chance to be a rich country you would give it highly sought after resources, Wales had coal, copper, slate at the best possible times and now it looks set to have an abundance of renewable energy potential and insane amounts of water in an emerging climate crisis, yet has some of the poorest regions in Europe?
All this after 500 years in the worlds "best" union, so I'm voting Plaid, the only party who will truly care about Wales and maximising it's potential. Labour voter's are flipping to Plaid as Adam Price is clearly well educated and experienced and as it's a good protest vote against Labour as Plaid won't be able to get a majority but won't destroy democracy like the right wing parties.
100% this.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wozza16
If people genuinely believe the United Kingdom is a equally treated union is kidding themselves, I think everybody would prefer that but it hasn't happened in the past 500 years so it isn't in the next.
I believe people had a big wake up call when the UK government rejected the request for extended furlough for Welsh workers only to extend it a week later when England needed it, if this doesn't show the position Wales is in in the list then nothing will.
Also people saying Wales would be too poor is like a broken record, if you made a country and gave it the best possible chance to be a rich country you would give it highly sought after resources, Wales had coal, copper, slate at the best possible times and now it looks set to have an abundance of renewable energy potential and insane amounts of water in an emerging climate crisis, yet has some of the poorest regions in Europe?
All this after 500 years in the worlds "best" union, so I'm voting Plaid, the only party who will truly care about Wales and maximising it's potential. Labour voter's are flipping to Plaid as Adam Price is clearly well educated and experienced and as it's a good protest vote against Labour as Plaid won't be able to get a majority but won't destroy democracy like the right wing parties.
We have heard this plaid are getting stronger in Wales before
That they are taking labour votes
Plaid had a disastrous general election , as did Labour and it was the tories in Wales who gained seats
From what I have seen via the opinion polls Labour have toughened up a bit but will lose seats to the tories and plaid won't be doing anything much than they normally do
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wozza16
If people genuinely believe the United Kingdom is a equally treated union is kidding themselves, I think everybody would prefer that but it hasn't happened in the past 500 years so it isn't in the next.
Wales has a population of 3m, England has a population of 55m. Why do you think things should be equal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wozza16
I believe people had a big wake up call when the UK government rejected the request for extended furlough for Welsh workers only to extend it a week later when England needed it, if this doesn't show the position Wales is in in the list then nothing will.
given England (London) is paying for furlough, you can understand them wanting a say in when and where it is put nto place. Furthermore, the reason Wales needed earlier furlough was the disastrous start to the pandemic we had due to Drakeford and some of his policies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wozza16
Also people saying Wales would be too poor is like a broken record, if you made a country and gave it the best possible chance to be a rich country you would give it highly sought after resources, Wales had coal, copper, slate at the best possible times and now it looks set to have an abundance of renewable energy potential and insane amounts of water in an emerging climate crisis, yet has some of the poorest regions in Europe?
Wales may have had those resources but they did not have the manpower or the capital to exploit them. The labour came from the midlands and Ireland, the capital from Scotland and Yorkshire.
As for renewable energy, we aren't going to create a sustainable economy from this alone. Wales currently has a fiscal deficit of £15bn per annum, and if we taxed all economic activity at 40% of GDP in the way the UK does, we would need to increase our GDP by £37.5bn just to cover existing public spending. Our current GDP is £70bn so we'd have to increase economic activity by over 50% overnight.
Wales also has around 1 in 4 workers in the public sector compared to 1 in 5 for the UK. If we have the same amount of funding then around 75k public sector jobs will be lost as we won't have the money to pay for them. That's 5% of the workforce. If we don't want to lose these jobs then we have to increase taxation, on one of the already poorest regions. Inward investment would dry up and would simply locate over the border.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wozza16
All this after 500 years in the worlds "best" union, so I'm voting Plaid, the only party who will truly care about Wales and maximising it's potential. Labour voter's are flipping to Plaid as Adam Price is clearly well educated and experienced and as it's a good protest vote against Labour as Plaid won't be able to get a majority but won't destroy democracy like the right wing parties.
Plaid only care about making Wales Welsh speaking, they really don't care about much else.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
looks likely that Labour will form a coalition government with plaid which is better than the tories sniffing around in my view .
However Drakeford needs to sling his hook pronto and hopefully eluned Morgan will get the script
Old man was an Ely community leader , she's highly articulate and has got to be better than the current first minister
I thought Carwyn Jones was a shoe in for a long run in the job but clearly he messed up big time with the carl sergeant controversy
Dont really understand why youre touting for Eluned yet considering voting Plaid?
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Former Labour leader
Dont really understand why youre touting for Eluned yet considering voting Plaid?
I am not considering voting for plaid
I could never vote for them
I would rather vote Liberal
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
Wales has a population of 3m, England has a population of 55m. Why do you think things should be equal?
given England (London) is paying for furlough, you can understand them wanting a say in when and where it is put nto place. Furthermore, the reason Wales needed earlier furlough was the disastrous start to the pandemic we had due to Drakeford and some of his policies.
Wales may have had those resources but they did not have the manpower or the capital to exploit them. The labour came from the midlands and Ireland, the capital from Scotland and Yorkshire.
As for renewable energy, we aren't going to create a sustainable economy from this alone. Wales currently has a fiscal deficit of £15bn per annum, and if we taxed all economic activity at 40% of GDP in the way the UK does, we would need to increase our GDP by £37.5bn just to cover existing public spending. Our current GDP is £70bn so we'd have to increase economic activity by over 50% overnight.
Wales also has around 1 in 4 workers in the public sector compared to 1 in 5 for the UK. If we have the same amount of funding then around 75k public sector jobs will be lost as we won't have the money to pay for them. That's 5% of the workforce. If we don't want to lose these jobs then we have to increase taxation, on one of the already poorest regions. Inward investment would dry up and would simply locate over the border.
Plaid only care about making Wales Welsh speaking, they really don't care about much else.
I have no problem with the strengthening of the Welsh language
Its the independence bollocks that bothers me
They are totally deluded
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I am not considering voting for plaid
I could never vote for them
I would rather vote Liberal
I'm not totally against the idea of Independence but I would rather see some sort of federal system in the UK, with England having it's own parliament as well.
I know you have reservations but the Welsh language is important and I am very much in favour of our children and grandchildren being taught it.
If I was pressed the only alternative party I would seriously consider are the Greens. The environment is definitely the biggest issue going forward.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Former Labour leader
I'm not totally against the idea of Independence but I would rather see some sort of federal system in the UK, with England having it's own parliament as well.
I know you have reservations but the Welsh language is important and I am very much in favour of our children and grandchildren being taught it.
If I was pressed the only alternative party I would seriously consider are the Greens. The environment is definitely the biggest issue going forward.
I have total support for the promotion of the Welsh language
I am totally against complete independence though which is why I would vote Liberal before plaid
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
Wales has a population of 3m, England has a population of 55m. Why do you think things should be equal?
Equal as in sequential spending, England is clearly going to have the lion share as it's bigger as that is basic numbers, I meant as (E.g) if England pays 100 Billion pounds on HS2, Wales should be given the 5 billion that it rightly deserves and not have the project labelled a England and Wales project when not 1 metre of it is in Wales and it's been projected to damage the Welsh economy by 100s of millions of pounds.
Quote:
given England (London) is paying for furlough, you can understand them wanting a say in when and where it is put nto place. Furthermore, the reason Wales needed earlier furlough was the disastrous start to the pandemic we had due to Drakeford and some of his policies.
I'm not aware of there being a money tree in London that they generously give Wales a slice of every year, I was under the impression that there was millions of Welsh people paying taxes every day (in one form or another) that they should rightly be able to call on when people's livelihoods are at risk.
Quote:
Wales may have had those resources but they did not have the manpower or the capital to exploit them. The labour came from the midlands and Ireland, the capital from Scotland and Yorkshire.
Australia seems able to get people to provide manpower half way across the world and hundreds of miles in the middle of the driest areas of the country (and the world) to work the mines, I'm sure the trek up to the valleys wasn't too difficult for people. In addition to this London doesn't happen to magically work up enough man power to run all the offices in London, people move for employment, it's not a new thing.
Quote:
As for renewable energy, we aren't going to create a sustainable economy from this alone. Wales currently has a fiscal deficit of £15bn per annum, and if we taxed all economic activity at 40% of GDP in the way the UK does, we would need to increase our GDP by £37.5bn just to cover existing public spending. Our current GDP is £70bn so we'd have to increase economic activity by over 50% overnight.
Wales is already a net exporter of renewable energy with extremely little investment or effort, with the move to electric cars alone this is going to have to come from somewhere. Also a strong economy isn't centred on 1 industry alone, it is only an example of 1 strong pillar.
Quote:
Wales also has around 1 in 4 workers in the public sector compared to 1 in 5 for the UK. If we have the same amount of funding then around 75k public sector jobs will be lost as we won't have the money to pay for them. That's 5% of the workforce. If we don't want to lose these jobs then we have to increase taxation, on one of the already poorest regions. Inward investment would dry up and would simply locate over the border.
Wales has a higher GDP than a lot of European countries e.g Portugal. A lot of companies announced financial results from their HQs regardless of where the money is generated, unsurprisingly these are all in London so that severely hides the financial potential.
Quote:
Plaid only care about making Wales Welsh speaking, they really don't care about much else.
This is clearly untrue and misleading, the fact they want free at point social care for everyone shows this so try not to be as narrow minded.
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wozza16
Equal as in sequential spending, England is clearly going to have the lion share as it's bigger as that is basic numbers, I meant as (E.g) if England pays 100 Billion pounds on HS2, Wales should be given the 5 billion that it rightly deserves and not have the project labelled a England and Wales project when not 1 metre of it is in Wales and it's been projected to damage the Welsh economy by 100s of millions of pounds.
I'm not aware of there being a money tree in London that they generously give Wales a slice of every year, I was under the impression that there was millions of Welsh people paying taxes every day (in one form or another) that they should rightly be able to call on when people's livelihoods are at risk.
Australia seems able to get people to provide manpower half way across the world and hundreds of miles in the middle of the driest areas of the country (and the world) to work the mines, I'm sure the trek up to the valleys wasn't too difficult for people. In addition to this London doesn't happen to magically work up enough man power to run all the offices in London, people move for employment, it's not a new thing.
Wales is already a net exporter of renewable energy with extremely little investment or effort, with the move to electric cars alone this is going to have to come from somewhere. Also a strong economy isn't centred on 1 industry alone, it is only an example of 1 strong pillar.
Wales has a higher GDP than a lot of European countries e.g Portugal. A lot of companies announced financial results from their HQs regardless of where the money is generated, unsurprisingly these are all in London so that severely hides the financial potential.
This is clearly untrue and misleading, the fact they want free at point social care for everyone shows this so try not to be as narrow minded.
You can't have something that can cost 1000 a week provided free to a elderly bloke with 3 million in the bank
Social care has to be means tested in the same way some welfare benefits are
Its economic madness to provide free social care to an aging population , some of whom are wealthy enough to afford to pay for it
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
I'm taking the 5th
probably nearer £2.2trn.
prior to Covid19 this government were getting towards balancing the books, which wasn't a bad effort overall. However there were social costs involved in doing this
GDP hit £3.1trn prior to Brexit, then it has fallen and is forecast to be around £2.6trn this year.
yes, quite considerably. Who knew!
Wales currently benefits from around £15bn in fiscal transfers each year. That is £5k for every man woman and child. We are not going to make those numbers up by selling water to the English or by developing green energy for sale. Wales' topography does not lend itself to a modern day economy, and as such we need to be careful about what we truly want from independence, if that is the goal. Because economically, we'd be a lot worse off than we are now.[/QUOTE]
Think the Scottish per head is the same or perhaps more , why would you look a gift horse in the mouth and become independent , when you can take all this dosh in and just moan for more when it goes wrong or say its not my fault its Westminsters
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wozza16
Equal as in sequential spending, England is clearly going to have the lion share as it's bigger as that is basic numbers, I meant as (E.g) if England pays 100 Billion pounds on HS2, Wales should be given the 5 billion that it rightly deserves and not have the project labelled a England and Wales project when not 1 metre of it is in Wales and it's been projected to damage the Welsh economy by 100s of millions of pounds.
I'm not aware of there being a money tree in London that they generously give Wales a slice of every year, I was under the impression that there was millions of Welsh people paying taxes every day (in one form or another) that they should rightly be able to call on when people's livelihoods are at risk.
Australia seems able to get people to provide manpower half way across the world and hundreds of miles in the middle of the driest areas of the country (and the world) to work the mines, I'm sure the trek up to the valleys wasn't too difficult for people. In addition to this London doesn't happen to magically work up enough man power to run all the offices in London, people move for employment, it's not a new thing.
Wales is already a net exporter of renewable energy with extremely little investment or effort, with the move to electric cars alone this is going to have to come from somewhere. Also a strong economy isn't centred on 1 industry alone, it is only an example of 1 strong pillar.
Wales has a higher GDP than a lot of European countries e.g Portugal. A lot of companies announced financial results from their HQs regardless of where the money is generated, unsurprisingly these are all in London so that severely hides the financial potential.
This is clearly untrue and misleading, the fact they want free at point social care for everyone shows this so try not to be as narrow minded.
( Wales also has around 1 in 4 workers in the public sector compared to 1 in 5 for the UK. If we have the same amount of funding then around 75k public sector jobs)
Big risks at play with Independence ; why would Westminster want to leave these UK type pubic sector jobs in Wales , if Wales left the UK , (same in Scotland ) , any separation would come with a cost , such as levelling up of debt at the point of Independence , border controls , trade deals , cost to using or moving form the pound (as per Scotland model) , how we do meet European membership and convergence rules without cost and tax rises , they wont want a poor country on boarding , just look at Greece they were forced by Europe to raise taxes to manager their weak economy in the recession . Who will be Wales major trading partner ,England or Europe if alter that will be interesting ,will need much better airports and docks and infrastructure ?
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Re: Eluned Morgan , Next Labour Leader In Wales , I hope
I voted for Eluned Morgan as, having met her, I believe she is an intelligent, honest, conscientious politician who actually cares about people. She would make an excellent first minister.