Have we ever had any non bullshitting board members? Thought it went with the territory.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
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Have we ever had any non bullshitting board members? Thought it went with the territory.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Look out, having popped his portrait of Vinnie back on the mantelpiece, Stockholm Stan's arrived....Quote:
Originally Posted by stan butler
To a degree it seems to.Quote:
Originally Posted by splott parker
I was in a meeting with Mehmet Dalman in January 2015, during which he boldly stated he wasn't involved with Cardiff City when the club was rebranded. In truth, he joined the board in January 2012.
Dalman was appointed as City's Chairman seven years and nine months ago. If his latest claims are true and the club really has needed Vincent Tan to put in £3 million a month to keep it going, that's a damning indictment of the way in which he the board have been running the show. Premier League parachute payments, season ticket money and an additional £3 million a month to maintain a mid-table Championship club with a mediocre squad? Great work.
You've met the both of them. Who's the biggest liar, Hammam or Dalman?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Assuming that you have spent time in his company, no doubt he speaks very highly of you as well. Also I would have no doubt that you would have spent the time touching your forelock, licking his arse and trying to get match tickets out of him because thats the kind of person you obviously are - say one thing and do the exact opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Bennett did his ACL at the start of March, so he's likely to miss the first three months of the season and probably longer. If he signs a new contract, are we going to get another left back on loan until January or rely on Bagan with Ciaron Brown in reserve?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
You couldn't really have got this more wrong. I was invited to one meeting at the club which Dalman hosted. It lasted about an hour. I felt the whole thing was a bit nauseating - a daft PR exercise overflowing with bullshit on both sides from start to finish. Dalman came across as very smooth but more than a little oily. I turned down an invitation to speak to him one-to-one after the main meeting and also declined an offer of a free ticket to the next home game.Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
So what do you reckon regarding Dalman's apparent claim (which he intially made in January) that Vincent Tan has been putting in £3 million a month during the pandemic to keep the club afloat? £36 million a year in hand-outs from the owner on top of the Premier League parachute payments and your season ticket money to keep a mid-ranking Championship team going - do you reckon that's likely? If so, what do you think about the way the club is being managed in financial terms? After all, if Dalman and Co are spending so much money but achieving so little, it can't be healthy, can it?
Yes, I do believe it. I also believe that every single Championship club is in exactly the same position to different degrees. I don't understand why anyone would not believe it. What is there to be gained from making it up ? The accounts can easily be checked when they are filed. If the club has any ambitions at all to be successful then that is what it costs to run a club of our size. Instead of moaning all the time about anything they do, we should be bloody grateful that he is keeping us afloat, at the same time as backing the manager/team in still trying to get promotion.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
I don't think that would be a valid comparison. One was the club owner, the other is the Chairman and they seem to be very different characters. Besides which, I've only spent an hour or so in Dalman's company, during which he was busily engaging in a cheesy PR exercise. I spent much more time in Hammam's company, often on a one-to-one basis, during which he talked about all manner of crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Labour leader
Perhaps a better comparison would be Peter Ridsdale, but again a direct comparison is difficult as I attended many meetings with him in a variety of settings and only one with Dalman which was staged by the club. I'll admit I always liked Ridsdale - he was entertaining company and I greatly admired how hard he worked and the phenomenal amount of hours he put in while he was Chairman. I reckon there's every chance the cub would have crashed in 2005 without him. However, he was obviously dodgy to put it mildly and could bullshit with the best of them. He had that down to an art form.
Indeed they can and it'll be interesting to do so when we finally get the chance. What is there to be gained from making the figure up? I don't know, but I'm confident it's exaggerated. After all, the club's Premier League wage bill in 2018/19 was £42.5 million. It's sure to have reduced significantly since then, so given the fact that the club has received large parachute payments for the last two years, where have these enormous sums Dalman referred to been going?Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
I wouldn't rule the idea out completely, though. After all, I firmly believe that the claims some fans have been making about the club being a well-run operation in recent years is fiction.
Whats the rules on FFP.?
If Tan is putting in 3m then losses of around 36m must be putting us in dodgy ground.
Just doesnt sound right. I think Dalman may be being a bit economical with the truth. Maybe the 3m is going in to cover costs then reclaimed when an income stream like a parachute payment comes in.
I think there are a lot of players at the club who are on big wages. Reports were that Smithies alone is on £35k per week, that's £1.8 pa for just one player. If, as stated, there are about 4 or 5 others on c £20k per week that's another £5m+ pa. And all the other players across the whole club, not just the first team squad. And the cost of the coaching staff and backroom people. The running of the ground too, someone above says £500k for business rates? And what we are paying for transfer fees, for the like of Murphy possibly, Glatzel, Flint etc, and the loan players. From talking to someone at another club I know a big cost is NI contributions c10% of the total wage bill and I know this has been a factor in cutting wage bills.
All this with income from the parachute payment's final year, and some income from season tickets. The season ticket income will be lost next season as people will have credit for missing this season (I hope, because I am one of them). No match day income, no potential big crowds for important games and derbies against Swansea and Bristol City. I expect it all adds up.
But it will have been the same for most clubs.
Next year will be difficult, very difficult for us with no parachute payments. Same for Swansea (unless they go up!). And the clubs coming down will be in the same position, losing the PL money and taking a drop down to parachute payments.
I expect Bamba and Bennett to follow Hoilett out of the club, one or two sales maybe and Glaztel sold or loaned out again. Transfers fees will be negligible but more important to get players off the wage bill.
A lot of other clubs are in trouble, Derby we know about, and a big club like Sheffield Wednesday in League 1. A lot off clubs could end up in serious financial mess.
I just hope we do OK. I still reckon we will get some decent signings in but it won't be silly fees like previous season. I just hope Harry Wilson comes back.
Almost forgot about Risdale. Love him or hate him, your quite right in that he probably saved CCFC going bust.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Going a bit further back, did you meet Clemo? I think he tops my list of self serving CCFC chairmen.
Yes, I met Tony Clemo a few times, including in later years when he always attended shareholder meetings. He won't be remembered fondly by many fans, but I think the truth is that for most of his tenure he simply didn't have the financial clout to do anything with the club and nobody else was interested. They were truly grim times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Labour leader
Interesting piece about him here - he was involved in more stuff behind the scenes than was apparent at the time:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...ormer-16449180
"Reports" is a pretty grand way of saying "completely made up rumour"Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiff55
Probably, normally, but then Warnock signed him!Quote:
Originally Posted by delmbox
Interesting what you say about Clemo.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Unfortunately the WOL link doesn't work.
Link works fine for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Labour leader
Strange. Works fine for me (on a standard PC).Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Labour leader
Oh Jesus, good point :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiff55
Thankyou. Link working for me now.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Never liked what he did at City, but perhaps he was trying to do a lot more good for Welsh football than I gave him credit for.
I see that Kumar still owns a few shares. Now there's another one that was looking after himself first. Whatever became of him?
The parachute payments could potentially be needed to cover balances of transfer fees outstanding from previous seasons (when Warnock was in charge), since they are usually paid over a number of years.
I don’t think I believe it, I would want to know why if I was VT, why do I need to put in another 3 million a month on top of the 3 million a month I got from sky. £40 million last season wasn’t it? 6 million a month to run a mid table championship club? Shockingly bad businessQuote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
He was always slaughtered in the fanzines and I remember a couple of Clemo out demos on the pitch. Always thought the robbery of the QPR cup takings were a bit suspicious. Maybe I’m putting 2+2 together and making 5?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
They were grim times and to be fair to Clemo, he had little help from local businesses and it took the Mancunian Rick Wright to take over from him.
I can assure you I have nothing to do with the dark side. Dalman always sounds to me like a lying Tory cnut though.Quote:
Originally Posted by stan butler
makes senseQuote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Dave, just a point of clarification.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
The Premier League season 2018/19 the total wage bill was £53.7m . The figure you refer to of £42.5m was the player related wage bill. The other big cash outlay that season was £38.2m paid out in instalments due for player signings against which the club only got £2.3m in cash from player sales.(those figures are cash figures and not the same as values of players bought and sold in the period because of transfer fees being usually paid by instalments).
On *****` message board (which I don`t have access to post on) there is a claim that the club earned £500m of income from its two years in the Premier League. That claim has no basis in fact. In the two Premier League years the total income was £83.1m in 2013/14 and £125.2m in 2018/19 so a total of £208.3m, less than half that claimed. Indeed , if the entire income for the 9 years from 2010/11 to 2018/19 inclusive is added together it only comes to £399m. In the sae 9 year period the wage bill alone totalled £329m so only £70m left to cover all other running costs of the club.
I can`t comment on the level of cash introduced by the owner in season 2019/20 yet because those accounts are not yet on the public record and the 2020/21 ones (which are likely to have required a greater cash injection) won`t be filed for a long time so it is not possible to comment on the accuracy of Mehmet Dalman`s claims
Keith
The rules on financial fair play (now called profitability and sustainabilty - punchy name!) are that you average your losses over a three year period and are allowed to make an average loss of £13m in the Championship and £35m in the Premier League. So we can make a loss of 2x £13m plus 1X£35m =£61m divided by 3 =just over £20m a year on average. On that basis , no problem with meeting the restrictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiff55
In addition , clubs are currently allowed to make a further "Covid loss" which they have to calculate and have audited .