How long for the club to change playing style?

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

To save time I'm going to guess dml's reply.

Surprise surprise he's slagging the club and board off again....blah blah blah...some reference to him being a proper fan and something at the end about me being a Jack.

How fans like him genuinely enjoy this style of football is a complete mystery. It really is.

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Bore off club basher hhmmm

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Originally Posted by Hilts

He scored a vital winner v Forest late in the season. I think he got injured again up at Hull and that was season over. That Hull win was a massive one.

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Yeah, that Forest goal stands out. I think Fulham were really putting the pressure on at that point.

We were in Bristol for a 40th birthday weekend and erupted in this bar where we were watching the game. Bouncers politely asked us to leave when we finished our drinks. :hehe:

I want Cardiff City to win football matches

They can do it with clown make up on and get deflections off the opposition centre half's arse in the last minute if that's what it takes

Football is no more complicated than that

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

What success have we had since Russell Slade arrived playing what you term "winning football"? We got promoted and, as usual, cocked up the home leg of a Play Off Semi Final. People who praise Grand Old Duke of York Warnock's promotion always conveniently forget that, having marched us to the top of the hill, he promptly marched us back down again while spending tens of millions of pounds in the process.

We've spent the best part of £100 million playing so called winning football and we're left with a squad which are able to pass the ball to a team mate ten yards away about five times out of ten.

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No small achievement to get into the premier league.
We also have some very good professional footballers here and I for one don’t undervalue any of that, notwithstanding the fact that I want to see even more progress.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I want Cardiff City to win football matches

They can do it with clown make up on and get deflections off the opposition centre half's arse in the last minute if that's what it takes

Football is no more complicated than that

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That’s like saying I want my food to fill me up, but I don’t care what it tastes like.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Who else is going to pay them what we pay them here?. I was looking at transfermarket earlier and the number of Cardiff players on Unique Sports Managements books is frightening. Even though Warnock has gone it seems we are still using them as our scouting network. I was alarmed to see that James Collins and Ryan Giles both represented by them.

All our big earners - Bacuna, Moz, Ralls, Tomlin - represented by them. I sometime wonder if Dalman is pulling down Tans trousers and hes also in it with Warnock and USM.

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I wanted to and almost posted this point in another thread recently. It's something that's been on my mind for a while. I'm glad you've raised it.

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Originally Posted by stan butler

Bore off club basher hhmmm

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You've signed in with the wrong login dml me old mucka.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I credit Warnock with somehow getting far more out of Zohore than anyone else has. Watching Zohore over the past two or three seasons, it's easy to forget just how good he was in the second half of 16/17 and before he got injured in 17/18 - so much of the dominant football we played in the early weeks of came through Zohore, backed up by Mendez-Laing who, a brief spell at the back end of 18/19 apart, was never the same player for us that he was in his first month or two here.

We also had Gunnar in 17/18 and, although he was never the prettiest of players, our midfield has not been the same since he left - I don't think he was appreciated by City fans, myself included, as much as he should have been.

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I, for one, appreciated that beard and shaven head look! Fearsome! He's never been replaced and even though he was on the decline, his passion in midfield is something I miss.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

People who praise Grand Old Duke of York Warnock's promotion always conveniently forget that, having marched us to the top of the hill, he promptly marched us back down again while spending tens of millions of pounds in the process.

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The Grand Old Duke of York. Hahahaha, that had me laughing out aloud and nearly spitting my coffee over the keyboard. Nice one Bob, a good comparison :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

You've signed in with the wrong login dml me old mucka.

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Only one account i have unlike you the club basher.

A lot of posters are claiming that we haven't got the players to change our style to more of a possession based game.

I'm not convinced by that.

I agree that three of our established midfielders are of a similar industrial type although all of them with flashes of creativity (Ralls, Vaulks, Bacuna) but that description doesn't fit Pack, Wintle or Bowen. I agree that the established three centre backs would struggle as imitation Beckenbauers and are more adept at blocking/clearing in our box and converting set pieces at the other end, but we don't need all three to be fizzing passes around in our half to change the style, and McGuinness seems to be very comfortable on the ball. When you look at the rest of the squad we have got players who came from Norwich, Crewe, Wolves etc who were all comfortable with a different style of play, and a growing cadre of youth players who (from all I have seen and read) have grown up with a much more technically skilled and attractive style than the first team has used in most of the recent past.

A few of our players are too limited to change much, but for the vast majority I think it is down to how the manager and coaching staff want to play, and the way they train for that.

I would like to see the style evolve and for us to hold the ball better and move oppositions around a bit, but I am happy enough most of the time if we have 40% possession, play on the counter, get the ball from back to front as quickly as possible (without turning over possession too easily) and then using power, pace and skill to score goals. That combined with a miserly defence and 100% effort. My problem is that we don't do that any more - or very rarely.

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Originally Posted by blue lewj

Well the crowd isn't changing any time soon so that isn't going to happen.
Do you honestly think a crowd that watches a 40 yard lofted long ball in the general direction of our front men will groan if we keep it on the floor and pass short to a blue shirt? Sorry but that is nonsense.

We do not have the players to play a more passing and entertaining style you say. Why are we persisting with them then? Unless of course the club and manager are more than happy with our style.

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In answer to your second paragraph there is plenty of evidence to suggest I am right. After attempts to pass the ball the crowd often urges the players to hump the ball forward. Perhaps you don't attend matches or more probably this aspect of our play has passed you by. I was in fact agreeing with a point made by an earlier poster. Call it nonsense if you like but that is what happens.

Unfortunately we are where we are. The fact it is likely that the acquisition of Collins to play alongside Moore or even act as his backup suggests there will be no change of style any time soon. We have attempted to play more attractive football. When we have adapted our style to play more attractive football the results haven't gone our way. To adapt our style will more than likely require new players and more money which we haven't got.

Arguably, the last attractive football we played was under Dave Jones and the vitriol towards him at that time was completely over the top. Perhaps supporters will have to decide whether they want to win playing hoofball or lose playing a passing game.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

In answer to your second paragraph there is plenty of evidence to suggest I am right. After attempts to pass the ball the crowd often urges the players to hump the ball forward. Perhaps you don't attend matches or more probably this aspect of our play has passed you by. I was in fact agreeing with a point made by an earlier poster. Call it nonsense if you like but that is what happens.

Unfortunately we are where we are. The fact it is likely that the acquisition of Collins to play alongside Moore or even act as his backup suggests there will be no change of style any time soon. We have attempted to play more attractive football. When we have adapted our style to play more attractive football the results haven't gone our way. To adapt our style will more than likely require new players and more money which we haven't got.

Arguably, the last attractive football we played was under Dave Jones and the vitriol towards him at that time was completely over the top. Perhaps supporters will have to decide whether they want to win playing hoofball or lose playing a passing game.

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If you’re referring to a half dozen games under Harris as an attempt to play more attractive football, then don’t you think we should give it a bit more patience?

We’re getting left behind. Even teams in lower divisions are evolving, but it seems that Cardiff City’s board are happy with hoofball, because it represents a lower risk.

Can’t they see that it’s a short term strategy that doesn’t pay off? We’d get annihilated in the Premier League.

I will say it again - if people don't like the manager, the players, team tactics, the chairman, the board, the owner or the club as a whole then why don't you all bog off and go and ‘support’ someone else. Leave the club to those people like me who love the club, enjoy supporting the team and going to games. Its not up to us to decide how the team plays. God help us if anyone like the closet Jack blue lewj ever got put in charge - team talk written on the back of a postage stamp is about his limit.

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Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw

If you’re referring to a half dozen games under Harris as an attempt to play more attractive football, then don’t you think we should give it a bit more patience?

We’re getting left behind. Even teams in lower divisions are evolving, but it seems that Cardiff City’s board are happy with hoofball, because it represents a lower risk.

Can’t they see that it’s a short term strategy that doesn’t pay off? We’d get annihilated in the Premier League.

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I think we tried to play more passing football under Harris last season until the defeat at Coventry. We were 18th in the league with 14 points from 13 matches at that point.

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Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw

If you’re referring to a half dozen games under Harris as an attempt to play more attractive football, then don’t you think we should give it a bit more patience?

We’re getting left behind. Even teams in lower divisions are evolving, but it seems that Cardiff City’s board are happy with hoofball, because it represents a lower risk.

Can’t they see that it’s a short term strategy that doesn’t pay off? We’d get annihilated in the Premier League.

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I was referring to those matches.Given that football is a results game any run of losses would result in fans calling for the manager's head.

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Originally Posted by Vindec

I was referring to those matches.Given that football is a results game any run of losses would result in fans calling for the manager's head.

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Like Trollope.

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Originally Posted by stan butler

Only one account i have unlike you the club basher.

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The club basher. 😄

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Originally Posted by dml1954

I will say it again - if people don't like the manager, the players, team tactics, the chairman, the board, the owner or the club as a whole then why don't you all bog off and go and ‘support’ someone else. Leave the club to those people like me who love the club, enjoy supporting the team and going to games. Its not up to us to decide how the team plays. God help us if anyone like the closet Jack blue lewj ever got put in charge - team talk written on the back of a postage stamp is about his limit.

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That was almost spot on with my attempt at your predicted reply.
You say how you are a better supporter and call me a closet Jack.

I'm not sure what you're on about with the team talk written on a postage stamp cobblers if I'm honest.

Minimum of 3 years or 1 rotation of players. Next?

Some fans actually believe they know what they’re talking about! Most don’t have a clue…they just listen to bullsh1t on MOTD and Sky !:hehe:

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Originally Posted by G rangetown Blue

Some fans actually believe they know what they’re talking about! Most don’t have a clue…they just listen to bullsh1t on MOTD and Sky !:hehe:

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great contribution

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Originally Posted by The Hooded Claw

If you’re referring to a half dozen games under Harris as an attempt to play more attractive football, then don’t you think we should give it a bit more patience?

We’re getting left behind. Even teams in lower divisions are evolving, but it seems that Cardiff City’s board are happy with hoofball, because it represents a lower risk.

Can’t they see that it’s a short term strategy that doesn’t pay off? We’d get annihilated in the Premier League.

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This

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Originally Posted by dml1954

I will say it again - if people don't like the manager, the players, team tactics, the chairman, the board, the owner or the club as a whole then why don't you all bog off and go and ‘support’ someone else. Leave the club to those people like me who love the club, enjoy supporting the team and going to games. Its not up to us to decide how the team plays. God help us if anyone like the closet Jack blue lewj ever got put in charge - team talk written on the back of a postage stamp is about his limit.

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We are all able to have an opinion . And express it .

Thats how this marvellous internet works.

Me, I would bar people who blindly follow anything from whatever they are blindly following.

For their own good .

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock

We are all able to have an opinion . And express it .

Thats how this marvellous internet works.

Me, I would bar people who blindly follow anything from whatever they are blindly following.

For their own good .

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…like Brexit voters!

We could change our style at Blackpool on Saturday to go with a more adventurous attacking approach, partly because of players out injured McGuinness and due to the fact that Morrison and Moore need more time to get up to speed.
A 4 5 1 with
Smithies
Sang
Flint
Nelson
Bagan
Giles
Pack
Colwill
Vaulks
Murphy
Collins

MM, won't go with an attacking line up, but I'd rather see 2 holding midfield players who break up play and let Colwill develop the number 10 role to be his own and allowing our wingers to do what they do best, run at defenders and take players on and get the ball in the box.

We've got players who are comfortable on the ball, we just need them to be given the opportunity

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Originally Posted by olderblue

We could change our style at Blackpool on Saturday to go with a more adventurous attacking approach, partly because of players out injured McGuinness and due to the fact that Morrison and Moore need more time to get up to speed.
A 4 5 1 with
Smithies
Sang
Flint
Nelson
Bagan
Giles
Pack
Colwill
Vaulks
Murphy
Collins

MM, won't go with an attacking line up, but I'd rather see 2 holding midfield players who break up play and let Colwill develop the number 10 role to be his own and allowing our wingers to do what they do best, run at defenders and take players on and get the ball in the box.

We've got players who are comfortable on the ball, we just need them to be given the opportunity

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Based on current availability and form, I would go with this team / formation for the next few games:

Phillips

Ng Flint Nelson Giles

Sang Pack

Bacuna
Colwill Murphy

Collins

Bench: Moore, Morrison, Vaulks, Bagan, Smithies

IF everyone was fit I would go for


Phillips

Sang Flint Morrison Giles

Bacuna Pack

Colwill Tomlin Murphy

Moore


IF MM insists on the godawful wingback system then we have to forget Ng at wingback and put Sang there

Phillips

Morrison Pack(sw) Flint

Sang Giles
Bacuna Ralls (or vaulks)

Colwill Murphy

Moore

I would definitely put Smithies in goal.

He played poorly a number of times 2nd half of the season but I think if hes close to his best hes better than Phillips.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

I would definitely put Smithies in goal.

He played poorly a number of times 2nd half of the season but I think if hes close to his best hes better than Phillips.

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Smithies will be off at the end of the season though, and presumably Phillips will be our #1, so we ned to be giving him regular matches.

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Originally Posted by AfricanBluebird

Based on current availability and form, I would go with this team / formation for the next few games:

Phillips

Ng Flint Nelson Giles

Sang Pack

Bacuna
Colwill Murphy

Collins

Bench: Moore, Morrison, Vaulks, Bagan, Smithies

IF everyone was fit I would go for


Phillips

Sang Flint Morrison Giles

Bacuna Pack

Colwill Tomlin Murphy

Moore


IF MM insists on the godawful wingback system then we have to forget Ng at wingback and put Sang there

Phillips

Morrison Pack(sw) Flint

Sang Giles
Bacuna Ralls (or vaulks)

Colwill Murphy

Moore

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I like 3-4-3 - lots of clubs are playing it at the moment.
I'm not keen on 5-2-3

I would go:

Phillips

Morisson Flint Nelson

Ng Pack Ralls Giles

Colwill Murphy
Moore

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Originally Posted by Rjk

I like 3-4-3 - lots of clubs are playing it at the moment.
I'm not keen on 5-2-3

I would go:

Phillips

Morisson Flint Nelson

Ng Pack Ralls Giles

Colwill Murphy
Moore

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Mick would never go for it though. Its an interesting option B for a game. Think id prefer Ng as one of the 3 and Sang on the right.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Mick would never go for it though. Its an interesting option B for a game. Think id prefer Ng as one of the 3 and Sang on the right.

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Yeah that would be a nice one to try.

I like Sang, but I'm not 100% convinced RWB is his best position

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Originally Posted by Rjk

I like 3-4-3 - lots of clubs are playing it at the moment.
I'm not keen on 5-2-3

I would go:

Phillips

Morisson Flint Nelson

Ng Pack Ralls Giles

Colwill Murphy
Moore

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Considering you've gone for Phillips over Smithies because Smithies is moving on at end of the season, what's caused you to put Murphy back in the side which has pushed Giles back to LWB and removed Bagan/Davies?

I wonder how much Mick would be up for bringing through youth if didn't have such an experienced spine? It's not the perfect formation but it's picking up results and bringing youth through.

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Originally Posted by surge

Considering you've gone for Phillips over Smithies because Smithies is moving on at end of the season, what's caused you to put Murphy back in the side which has pushed Giles back to LWB and removed Bagan/Davies?

I wonder how much Mick would be up for bringing through youth if didn't have such an experienced spine? It's not the perfect formation but it's picking up results and bringing youth through.

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For me Ng has had a very poor pre season and he doesn't seem to do enough going forward at a RWB.

He would be much better as a right back in a 442

So Sang seems like a better option at RWB at the moment but I agree that his best position is centre mid. Although we are over staffed there.... Why on earth we brought in wintle, and not shifted anyone on, is beyond me.. he's literally just younger/morphed version of Ralls, pack and Vaulks. Sang on the other hand seems much more of a ball player. Wintle wasn't and isn't what we need...unless we ship out a few others.

I would like to have seen Sang tried in CM pre season.

I think Mick sees him as a RWB.

Of our midfielders they are probably on too much money to move on.

I dont think weve seen enough of Wintle to write him off. I think if we had a really good attacking midfielder a midfield 2 out of Ralls/Pack/Bacuna is ok alongside work on the training ground with a better emphasis on passing the ball.

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Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez

I think we have some good footballers in the team, players like Ng for example. Midfield is full of cloggers and ball winners and the only player is 2 stone too fat, and more injury prone than Frank Spencer.

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That’s a grossly unfair comparison. While Frank was certainly injury-prone, he was always available for action the following weekend.