Dominic Raab

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Originally Posted by Allez Allez Allez

Foreign secretary puts lives in danger shock.

Whatever happened to the foreign secretary that cocked up Zaghari-Ratcliffe's chances of getting out of Iran?

This lot has to go, and they will albeit for another Tory Government. Every decision they make seems to cost lives. But they are keeping immigration down which some people think is good. Sadly, none of the British people complaining about "forriners taking our jobs" seem ready to step up into the many vacancies that exist. Pick fruit? Clean toilets? Work in a care home? Not on the British nelly squire.

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I'm not saying this is a confused post, but...

...The UK are literally in Kabul at the moment evacuating people, potentially saving their lives.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58266555

Immigration is rising. More people arrive than leave
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...313%20thousand.

Not withstanding a small fall post Covid, more British people are working now than at any point in history.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...etric%20models.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

No it's not. The OP said Raab was a 'typical Tory' or words to that effect..

Also, this BBC article is basically:

Labour moaning
Lib Dems moaning
SNP moaning
Plaid moaning
Daily Mail moaning

Thats why I suspect it's party-political motives at play here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58265160

All the while the UK (incl Raabs department) are evacuating thousands of people from Kabul airport.

I know which story I think is more interesting and important.

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Let’s be honest though that is a typical Tory, especially these days.

Funny that you say opposition parties holding the government to account for being incompetent is moaning but maybe you’re just biased?

I’m sorry that might hurt your sensitive little feelings but if you vote for the tories that’s what you get.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Let’s be honest though that is a typical Tory, especially these days.

I’m sorry that might hurt your sensitive little feelings but if you vote for the tories that’s what you get.

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You are just proving my point, which is that many of those criticising;

1 / Don't care about people being airlifted from Kabul airport.

2 / Do care about sectarian party political jibes.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I'm not saying this is a confused post, but...

...The UK are literally in Kabul at the moment evacuating people, potentially saving their lives.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58266555

Immigration is rising. More people arrive than leave
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...313%20thousand.

Not withstanding a small fall post Covid, more British people are working now than at any point in history.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...etric%20models.

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There’s a lot of propaganda to unpack here, so I’ll keep it simple.

U.K. literally in Kabul saving lives - what has that got to do with the foreign secretary being absent and not doing his job?

More people in work than ever - if you look at zero hour contracts etc maybe, but let’s wait until furlough ends and see if that holds up.

Immigration is rising - our net immigration is about the same as it’s always been. Which is miniscule in terms of our overall population and adds a net positive to our country when you see we have an ageing population with decreasing birth rates.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

You are just proving my point, which is that many of those criticising;

1 / Don't care about people being airlifted from Kabul airport.

2 / Do care about sectarian party political jibes.

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Maybe people care about both and are using it to bash one of the most corrupt and useless governments we’ve had in a long time.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

There’s a lot of propaganda to unpack here, so I’ll keep it simple.

U.K. literally in Kabul saving lives - what has that got to do with the foreign secretary being absent and not doing his job?

More people in work than ever - if you look at zero hour contracts etc maybe, but let’s wait until furlough ends and see if that holds up.

Immigration is rising - our net immigration is about the same as it’s always been. Which is miniscule in terms of our overall population and adds a net positive to our country when you see we have an ageing population with decreasing birth rates.

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1- He clearly is doing his job isnt he, as these things dont happen without co-ordination from the top. Thats my point.

2 - Zero Hour contracts represent a small number of posts, and suit some people and dont suit others.

3 - Immigration since the 2000's is way higher than it used to be. The link i posted showed that. I dont disagree at all on the benefits, although I do agree in managed migration and not a laissez-faire solution.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Maybe people care about both and are using it to bash one of the most corrupt and useless governments we’ve had in a long time.

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Maybe they do care about both. They don't seem to talk about it mind. Feel free to talk about the evacuation of vulnerable people from Kabul airport as opposed to speculation about Raabs holiday if you like.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Maybe they do care about both. They don't seem to talk about it mind. Feel free to talk about the evacuation of vulnerable people from Kabul airport as opposed to speculation about Raabs holiday if you like.

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Start a thread on the evacuation of vulnerable people from Kabul airport. This thread is about Raab.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

1- He clearly is doing his job isnt he, as these things dont happen without co-ordination from the top. Thats my point.

2 - Zero Hour contracts represent a small number of posts, and suit some people and dont suit others.

3 - Immigration since the 2000's is way higher than it used to be. The link i posted showed that. I dont disagree at all on the benefits, although I do agree in managed migration and not a laissez-faire solution.

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You're talking a lot about the evacuation happening now - but the criticism is about Raab being on holiday and not getting involved while the Taliban were still outside Kabul, and the defences were on the verge of collapse.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Start a thread on the evacuation of vulnerable people from Kabul airport. This thread is about Raab.

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Same topic given he's foreign secretary

Should have a list of Tory boy whining.

1 but but but Jeremy Corbyn
2 but but but Diane Abbott
3 poor Boris such difficult times.
4 they are only criticising for political point scoring.
5 At least Boris hasnt stopped me getting my lamb chops at my preferred butchers.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Should have a list of Tory boy whining.

1 but but but Jeremy Corbyn
2 but but but Diane Abbott
3 poor Boris such difficult times.
4 they are only criticising for political point scoring.
5 At least Boris hasnt stopped me getting my lamb chops at my preferred butchers.

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You've misspelt winning ;)

BBC news at lunchtime said that Raab was asked to make phone-call to his equal in Afghanistan by his department's advisers but he delegated job to more junior position.

UK government's position as of 8th of July was that there isn't military path for Taliban victory which has been proved false very quickly.

Question is whether Raab showed poor judgement in misunderstanding what could happen over 1month plus and poor judgement again by asking person junior to him to make, on face of it, such a critical phone-call both of which have had dire outcomes.

UK are now reacting as quickly as possible but it's easy in hindsight, isn't it?

I'm sure Raab and Johnson would both have been straight on it if some of their mates/donors could have made a few quid out of the situation.

Cameron

What an oily git he's turned out to be

Who would have thought that eh 🤔

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Maybe they do care about both. They don't seem to talk about it mind. Feel free to talk about the evacuation of vulnerable people from Kabul airport as opposed to speculation about Raabs holiday if you like.

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To be fair you were happy to share your take on Raab's holiday prior to declaring the story unimportant and uninteresting.

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Originally Posted by Baloo

To be fair you were happy to share your take on Raab's holiday prior to declaring the story unimportant and uninteresting.

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Yeah exaclty.

Raab was asked to make one phonecall from his sun lounger and he refused and it sums him up.

I still can't believe anyone would defen him and the only reason I can grasp that someone would do it is they're such a biased tory supporter they'd never criticise anything to do with the party. The main thing wrong with party politics imo, people are so biased they'll over look anything to support the party and will vote for them regardless of all the corruption and cuntiness on display.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Same topic given he's foreign secretary

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If the actual important thing is what's going on in Kabul, why was this your first post?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Should he not go on holiday?

Or are you basing the insults on what the Labour Party have said? Because, as a general rule, you cant trust opposition parties to be entirely truthful about situations regarding their political opponents..

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What's more important boots on the ground or boots on your tongue?

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

Yeah exaclty.

Raab was asked to make one phonecall from his sun lounger and he refused and it sums him up.

I still can't believe anyone would defen him and the only reason I can grasp that someone would do it is they're such a biased tory supporter they'd never criticise anything to do with the party. The main thing wrong with party politics imo, people are so biased they'll over look anything to support the party and will vote for them regardless of all the corruption and cuntiness on display.

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Or maybe:

1 - What you say happened, in fact didnt
2 - Whoever made the call wouldnt have made any difference
3 - People think its a side show to more important matters (like the ongoing airlift evacuations)

I've voted for all major parties and will gladly criticise the Tories, but just not on this trumped up charge of holiday speculation when far more important matters are taking place.

No knee jerk reaction here I am afraid. Just seeing Dominic Rabb in the news serves as a reminder how much of an absolute c*nt the bloke is.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Or maybe:

1 - What you say happened, in fact didnt
2 - Whoever made the call wouldnt have made any difference
3 - People think its a side show to more important matters (like the ongoing airlift evacuations)

I've voted for all major parties and will gladly criticise the Tories, but just not on this trumped up charge of holiday speculation when far more important matters are taking place.

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1. I didn't say that's what happened though, that is a fact of what happened. He was on holiday and stayed on holiday even though all this was going on.
2. It not making a difference seems to be an opinion not a fact.
3. No one thinks it's more important but is it not important that the foreign secretary can make correct judgement calls?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Or maybe:

1 - What you say happened, in fact didnt
2 - Whoever made the call wouldnt have made any difference
3 - People think its a side show to more important matters (like the ongoing airlift evacuations)

I've voted for all major parties and will gladly criticise the Tories, but just not on this trumped up charge of holiday speculation when far more important matters are taking place.

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His own department have not disputed the main facts.

JamesWales performance in this thread has been the best display of ccmb boot licking we've ever had. Fair play to the lad.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

JamesWales performance in this thread has been the best display of ccmb boot licking we've ever had. Fair play to the lad.

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Hes a btec WalesBales

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Hes a btec WalesBales

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:hehe:

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

JamesWales performance in this thread has been the best display of ccmb boot licking we've ever had. Fair play to the lad.

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It's not bootlicking, I just think you are talking nonsense, have provided no evidence to back up what you say, are being an example of Captain Hindsight and are more interested in gossip about holidays than the fact we are airlifting people to safety in their thousands.

It's a fact that thousands are being airlifted to safety.

It's not a fact that a phone call that may or may not have been made has had any material impact on safety at all. Indeed, for all you know, direct contact with a UK govt minister may put former Afghan ministers in more danger with the Taliban.

Best to deal with facts I think. If we weren't evacuating people and working on the ground now then I would wholly agree with the criticism...but we are, so I don't.

I didn’t report the story you soppy bollocks. It’s facts and his own department have confirmed he was on holiday and a junior made the call.

It’s got nothing to do with the normal evacuation either but about the translators. Which is pretty important when the taliban are hunting down anyone who complied with outside forces.

Raab is a **** and has acted like a **** yet again, carry on bootlicking though :thumbup:

In one sentence there you are both saying that the Taliban are hunting down those who complied with outside forces whilst also insisting that the head of foreign affairs in those same outside forces should be personally making specific phone calls.

I think that demonstrates that this is a complex, nuanced issue that is more complicated than you give it credit.

We can see people leaving in fkn British planes. That's evidence.

There is no evidence that him not making a specific phone call has had any impact on anyone whatsoever. If you can prove it has then I would entirely agree with you.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Or maybe:

1 - What you say happened, in fact didnt
2 - Whoever made the call wouldnt have made any difference
3 - People think its a side show to more important matters (like the ongoing airlift evacuations)

I've voted for all major parties and will gladly criticise the Tories, but just not on this trumped up charge of holiday speculation when far more important matters are taking place.

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Actually on point 2 it's reported the call was delayed by a day because it was received from a junior minister and not the Afghan Minister Of Foreign Affairs' direct UK equivalent. I guess pecking-orders are important in these circles.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's not bootlicking, I just think you are talking nonsense, have provided no evidence to back up what you say, are being an example of Captain Hindsight and are more interested in gossip about holidays than the fact we are airlifting people to safety in their thousands.

It's a fact that thousands are being airlifted to safety.

It's not a fact that a phone call that may or may not have been made has had any material impact on safety at all. Indeed, for all you know, direct contact with a UK govt minister may put former Afghan ministers in more danger with the Taliban.

Best to deal with facts I think. If we weren't evacuating people and working on the ground now then I would wholly agree with the criticism...but we are, so I don't.

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6. Captain Hindsight. Another Tory whine all too common after the bufoon and co s continuous feck ups.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Oh, the bastion of truth!

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the queen is over a thousand years old , she's not going remember everything..c'mon

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Should have a list of Tory boy whining.

1 but but but Jeremy Corbyn
2 but but but Diane Abbott
3 poor Boris such difficult times.
4 they are only criticising for political point scoring.
5 At least Boris hasnt stopped me getting my lamb chops at my preferred butchers.

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No 5 :hehe:

Raab was always an underachiever.

If you remember when Boris was critically unwell with Covid, Raab stepped up and looked like a startled rabbit and was completely out of his depth .

Who in thier right mind would want to be a politician.

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Originally Posted by Croesy Blue

JamesWales performance in this thread has been the best display of ccmb boot licking we've ever had. Fair play to the lad.

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He's not very good at this winding up lark is he.

Meanwhile, it seems that the call wasn't made at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-mps-to-resign

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

He's not very good at this winding up lark is he.

Meanwhile, it seems that the call wasn't made at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-mps-to-resign

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It is very hard to defend some people. So I won't bother.

He should be replace by someone who has knowledge in foreign affairs

|Such as the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs committee

Tom Tughendhat of course. From what I read He is highly intelligent, well thought of on all sides of the house.

Surely a better fit than Dominic Raab.

It won't happen of course and Raab probably won't go now. But he may in the reshuffle which has been predicted for months

Just seen this on BBC.

If a lot of Tory MP's share rhe views of Tobias Ellwood Raab's days may be numbered

'The British Armed Forces Minister, James Heappey, has insisted that a single phone call wouldn't have changed how events unfolded.

Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood, who chairs the Commons Defence Committee, said he agreed with Mr Heappey's statement but also suggested that it might be time for change within the Cabinet.

He told the BBC: "This government was put together back in December 2019 when the world looked very different indeed.

"You do need different skillsets, different types of leadership given the challenges that we now face, and I'm sure the prime minister will be considering that."'

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Raab was always an underachiever.

If you remember when Boris was critically unwell with Covid, Raab stepped up and looked like a startled rabbit and was completely out of his depth .

Who in thier right mind would want to be a politician.

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You spell their the same way as my partner, the wrong way :hehe:

The debate on Raab is almost as if no one has the answers to how this unfolded or had the ability to forecast it on either side of the political arena , but feel calling out a man on holiday or not making a phone call is a lot easier than offering any positive suggestions or alternatives to have stop this incident unfolding .

It does appear that UK is making a better fist of evacuation than USA .

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Originally Posted by life on mars

Raab was always an underachiever.

If you remember when Boris was critically unwell with Covid, Raab stepped up and looked like a startled rabbit and was completely out of his depth .

Who in thier right mind would want to be a politician.

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Boris??? his name is Johnson. Critically ill :facepalm::hehe::hehe::hehe: God you are naive.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

It is very hard to defend some people. So I won't bother.

He should be replace by someone who has knowledge in foreign affairs

|Such as the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs committee

Tom Tughendhat of course. From what I read He is highly intelligent, well thought of on all sides of the house.

Surely a better fit than Dominic Raab.

It won't happen of course and Raab probably won't go now. But he may in the reshuffle which has been predicted for months

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Tugendhat is neither a serial arse licker or a rabid Brexiter, so he has no chance of promotion in the current goverment