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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
I want you to be specific not someone else. If you don't in the next post I'll assume you can't just like the majority of the tory electorate.
assume all you want, its a bit like Momentum and the other ****wits on the left assuming because they controlled the party they controlled the electorate. This ain't East Germany. Corbyn's Labour were annihilated in the last election. Annihilated. The worst showing ever. its time to let the grown ups have a go, and not the Citizen Smith types.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
The statement you labelled a fact was that Corbyn put Johnson into power - not that the Tories won and Labour lost (which is a fact).
It is your opinion that Corbyn is solely responsible for the outcome of the last election - it is not a fact.
I remember John McDonald on R4's Today program just after Labour (and their daft 1970s policies) were trounced beyond all comprehension in the last election, and he made the same claim as you that the loss was nothing to do with the fact that Corbyn was so out of touch with what the ordinary man and woman wanted. Controlling the party means nothing in the UK as it is the electorate that gets you elected.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
And after all those random words you still can’t separate facts from opinions. Brain fade and word soup sometimes has no cure!
why not tell us which you think are facts and which you think are opinions - then we can see if those you think are just opinions have any evidence to turn them into facts.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
its been nearly 50 years since a Labour politician other than someone named Blair has won a general election. Perhaps Blair's social democracy is the way to go, and not the lunatic left
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
its been nearly 50 years since a Labour politician other than someone named Blair has won a general election. Perhaps Blair's social democracy is the way to go, and not the lunatic left
But the left hate him so much they were consumed , their biggest mistake was electing the wrong Miliband .
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
why not tell us which you think are facts and which you think are opinions - then we can see if those you think are just opinions have any evidence to turn them into facts.
He always does that when the logical argument is lost . He wanted Corbyn as leader of our country FFS FACT
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
He always does that when the logical argument is lost . He wanted Corbyn as leader of our country FFS FACT
At last a fact - your wild guess turns out to be right - I did want Labour to win the 2017 and 2019 elections.
Unfortunately you blew any credit for that with your comical claim to have presented some kind of ‘logical argument’. You and your accountant mate have barely got past the stage of posting old Daily Express headlines.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
At last a fact - your wild guess turns out to be right - I did want Labour to win the 2017 and 2019 elections.
Unfortunately you blew any credit for that with your comical claim to have presented some kind of ‘logical argument’. You and your accountant mate have barely got past the stage of posting old Daily Express headlines.
Temper, temper 😴
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
He always does that when the logical argument is lost . He wanted Corbyn as leader of our country FFS FACT
And you wanted Boris? Do you have a point?
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
At last a fact - your wild guess turns out to be right - I did want Labour to win the 2017 and 2019 elections.
Unfortunately you blew any credit for that with your comical claim to have presented some kind of ‘logical argument’. You and your accountant mate have barely got past the stage of posting old Daily Express headlines.
I've not seen any daily express headlines posted. Care to share them with us?
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Feedback
I've not seen any daily express headlines posted. Care to share them with us?
No.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
No.
Ooh ,temper,temper.
No facts
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
And you wanted Boris? Do you have a point?
No I don't I voted Liberal Democrat and posted this many times.
FACT
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
This sums it all up for me and why the Tories still outstrip Labour in terms of forming a viable government.
Lots of shouting on twitter. No actual proposals.
Reality is tough decisions need to be made and governing a country is f*****g hard work!
https://order-order.com/2021/09/13/r...funding-plans/
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Ooh ,temper,temper.
No facts
You are a strange one. Why would I want to post Express headlines on this thread - when that is the role you have taken on with your Tory loving support act?
You still seem to be troubled by ‘facts’. The difference between facts and opinions doesn’t have to be such a minefield - any decent dictionary will do the job! Try it.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
This sums it all up for me and why the Tories still outstrip Labour in terms of forming a viable government.
Lots of shouting on twitter. No actual proposals.
Reality is tough decisions need to be made and governing a country is f*****g hard work!
https://order-order.com/2021/09/13/r...funding-plans/
Presumably you read the Tory manifestos cover to cover in 2017 and 2019. Of course you did it, only takes about 5 mins a piece, once your brain learns how to automatically filter out the soundbites and filler. Very little detail though, which should preclude them from 'forming a viable government'. Did you vote for them?
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
No I don't I voted Liberal Democrat and posted this many times.
FACT
Thinking about it, you might have been better off spoiling your ballot sheet when you realised you had voted for the wrong party.
Being serious, I find it very odd that, while I know you voted Remain, you voted for the one party that stood on a ticket of taking us back into the EU when, based on what you say on here, I thought your attitude was the same as mine - we voted to leave, so let's do so.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
This sums it all up for me and why the Tories still outstrip Labour in terms of forming a viable government.
Lots of shouting on twitter. No actual proposals.
Reality is tough decisions need to be made and governing a country is f*****g hard work!
https://order-order.com/2021/09/13/r...funding-plans/
Labour had plenty of proposals in 2019, far more than the Tories, who just parroted "Get Brexit done". They also had plenty of popular proposals if this is to be believed, the problem appeared to be a combination of there being too many of them and a "toxic" leader.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9279946.html
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Presumably you read the Tory manifestos cover to cover in 2017 and 2019. Of course you did it, only takes about 5 mins a piece, once your brain learns how to automatically filter out the soundbites and filler. Very little detail though, which should preclude them from 'forming a viable government'. Did you vote for them?
As we so often see, any critique of 'your team' see's personal insults. I was criticising a prominent politician in the opposition failing to come up with a viable plan. Why get personal about it?
If you said, "yeah fair point, she should do better" I would be much more likely to vote Labour again. Instead you insult me and defend her shit interview.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Labour had plenty of proposals in 2019, far more than the Tories, who just parroted "Get Brexit done". They also had plenty of popular proposals if this is to be believed, the problem appeared to be a combination of there being too many of them and a "toxic" leader.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9279946.html
Yes, I know Labour had plenty of proposals; all parties did.
The point is that governance is ****ing hard, and Angela Rayner criticised a policy but didn't say what hers would be.
That's not good enough for me, sorry. I'm surprised it is for you. I'd like a viable government to tell me how my disabled fathers care may pan out in the coming years.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
should we introduce a law like they have in China, that when a parent is old and unable to care for themselves then the children have a legal duty to look after them.
just like parents have a legal duty to look after children when they are too young to take care of themselves.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Yes, I know Labour had plenty of proposals; all parties did.
The point is that governance is ****ing hard, and Angela Rayner criticised a policy but didn't say what hers would be.
That's not good enough for me, sorry. I'm surprised it is for you. I'd like a viable government to tell me how my disabled fathers care may pan out in the coming years.
And this lot have done that? Johnson told everyone almost two years ago that he had a plan for social care before Covid was an issue, was that plan just to put everyone’s NI contributions up and suspend the triple lock on pensions as announced last week - why do you think Johnson wasn’t telling everyone about it in December 2019 I wonder?
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
And this lot have done that? Johnson told everyone almost two years ago that he had a plan for social care before Covid was an issue, was that plan just to put everyone’s NI contributions up and suspend the triple lock on pensions as announced last week - why do you think Johnson wasn’t telling everyone about it in December 2019 I wonder?
They have literally just announced a funding model for social care. So yes, they have done that.
All the hard work is to come, but at least they have come up with a plan.
Labour have moaned about it on twitter.
That's the difference between the two parties at the moment, unfortunately.
I've nothing against Labour, have voted for them far more often than I have Tory, but I have no time for political parties incapable of making decisions and just whingeing about it from the sidelines.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
They have literally just announced a funding model for social care. So yes, they have done that.
All the hard work is to come, but at least they have come up with a plan.
Labour have moaned about it on twitter.
That's the difference between the two parties at the moment, unfortunately.
I've nothing against Labour, have voted for them far more often than I have Tory, but I have no time for political parties incapable of making decisions and just whingeing about it from the sidelines.
Think your thoughts ring true for a lot of lost Labour voters ,I've jumped to Lib Dem because of Corbyn preying that Sir Kier was something different, sadly he is not , he sounded very dated at yesterday TUC event and was spouting policy for unions fees and support .
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
They have literally just announced a funding model for social care. So yes, they have done that.
All the hard work is to come, but at least they have come up with a plan.
Labour have moaned about it on twitter.
That's the difference between the two parties at the moment, unfortunately.
I've nothing against Labour, have voted for them far more often than I have Tory, but I have no time for political parties incapable of making decisions and just whingeing about it from the sidelines.
You’re not addressing my point though. Why, when Johnson told everyone before Covid arrived in this country that he had a plan for social care, did it take nearly two years to announce it? Then, when it came, it amounted to a tax increase and a pension freeze, could Johnson’s reluctance to let us in on his plan earlier have something to do with the party of low taxation showing that, actually, they aren’t?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...nson-abandons/
I thought Labour’s response to last week’s announcement was feeble, but they’re the opposition and so they can get away with that to an extent, it seems odd that you’re so bothered about what they did or didn’t have to say.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
I can see progress in the government's social care plan albeit it is two years late probably down to Brexit treacle, and a pandemic which has rocked government workings and sadly put it back.
The plan https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nd-social-care
I did find this for Labour from 2019 https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-c...festo-stack-up
Sir Kier said those with broader shoulders and landlords should pay, not sure if that plan is better than the Governments , hopefully deeper details will follow.
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
As we so often see, any critique of 'your team' see's personal insults. I was criticising a prominent politician in the opposition failing to come up with a viable plan. Why get personal about it?
If you said, "yeah fair point, she should do better" I would be much more likely to vote Labour again. Instead you insult me and defend her shit interview.
Can you point out the personal insult please?
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
It is right that when everyone - employees and employers - benefits from the insurance provided by the National Health Service, everyone who can should make a fair contribution.
Agree or disagree?
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Re: Social care facing 'unprecedented crisis'
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elwood Blues
It is right that when everyone - employees and employers - benefits from the insurance provided by the National Health Service, everyone who can should make a fair contribution.
Agree or disagree?
Agree , in lots of countries you pay extra for deeper long term care needs like social , as it is extremely costly , since the conception of the health service which was to provide care to the very poor and needy and those who could not afford health at the time .
We now have much bigger population , folk living much longer , a need to access to huge array of expensive drugs , enormous costs linked to up to date technology and medical equipment , huge wage bill for one of the biggest run organisations in the world , its a world away from dear old Nye Bevans wonderful initial provision .