HGV Driver Shortages

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Originally Posted by Feedback

it was used a way of stating the direction of wealth distribution. nothing more than that.

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I wasn’t having a go, just interested in knowing.

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

I love to know what working class means. It seems people adapt it for their own purposes. My mum worked in Woolworths my dad cut down trees. I’ve worked in Manufacturing every day since September 1975. I consider myself working class, I’ve worked for every penny I’ve earned. Who decides the criteria?

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I think it is an outdated and ill-defined concept and has been for quite some time. In fact, I think that's why the Labour party has a bit of a difficulty in targeting a voter base thesedays

This makes an interesting read re driver shortages. UK faces a perfect storm of contributory factors which cannot be solved in the short to medium term.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/57810729

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

In the coming years, I would anticipate:
Rising wages
Greater housing affordability
Greater infiltration and engagement with faster growing global economies
GDP to rise slightly faster than typical in the previous years
Lower unemployment than in the last 10-20 years
Greater emphasis on manufacturing
A more dynamic R&D sector
Greater investment in public services.
A more interventionist form of economic management
A more dynamic, agile and faster moving govt
Greater investments in workplace training, apprenticeships etc

Ultimately we have left a club that contains Germany, France, Spain, Italy et al and joined one that contains South Korea, Japan, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland et al.

In or out of the EU will make far less positive or negative impact than people think, as the foundations of a strong economy are rooted in other issues, but on balance I think Britain will do better and I do think society and the economy will be fairer and more balanced.

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Laughable. Most, if not all of that, is complete tripe.

It's complete conjecture from you. What expertise are you drawing upon to spout such utter rubbish?

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Originally Posted by az city

Laughable. Most, if not all of that, is complete tripe.

It's complete conjecture from you. What expertise are you drawing upon to spout such utter rubbish?

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They are predictions about the future, completely unprovable either way, until say 2024, 2025. but that is what I think will happen based on my knowledge of current affairs and economics.

What evidence do you have that advanced western nations such as the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, Japan etc do worse economically than Italy, Germany, Belgium, Spain, Sweden, France etc? The evidence doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by az city

Laughable. Most, if not all of that, is complete tripe.

It's complete conjecture from you. What expertise are you drawing upon to spout such utter rubbish?

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It sounds like it's been lifted from a speech made at a young conservatives branch meeting.

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

It sounds like it's been lifted from a speech made at a young conservatives branch meeting.

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Challenge specific bits then. The EU generally has higher unemployment and lower growth than comparable countries outside, so while the laissez faire single market model does have some benefits, it clearly has costs too.

Explain why you think I am wrong - cite the advanced nations outside the EU that are struggling so. Which are they? Norway? Australia? Canada? South Korea? Where? Where are these economic disaster nations?

Where is your evidence that prolonged membership of the EU for advanced western nations (as we are) is better long term than those outside? I'm afraid the evidence doesnt really exist.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

They are predictions about the future, completely unprovable either way, until say 2024, 2025. but that is what I think will happen based on my knowledge of current affairs and economics.

What evidence do you have that advanced western nations such as the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, Japan etc do worse economically than Italy, Germany, Belgium, Spain, Sweden, France etc? The evidence doesn't exist.

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So, to summarize:

1. it's complete conjecture on your part;
2. you have absolutely zero expertise in the area.

Utter BS from you.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Ultimately we have left a club that contains Germany, France, Spain, Italy et al and joined one that contains South Korea, Japan, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland et al.

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What club do they all belong to? I wasn't aware that those countries have formed an alliance similar to the EU.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Challenge specific bits then. The EU generally has higher unemployment and lower growth than comparable countries outside, so while the laissez faire single market model does have some benefits, it clearly has costs too.

Explain why you think I am wrong - cite the advanced nations outside the EU that are struggling so. Which are they? Norway? Australia? Canada? South Korea? Where? Where are these economic disaster nations?

Where is your evidence that prolonged membership of the EU for advanced western nations (as we are) is better long term than those outside? I'm afraid the evidence doesnt really exist.

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What are you asking for? Your statements/conjectures are so vague that it's difficult to tell.

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Originally Posted by az city

So, to summarize:

1. it's complete conjecture on your part;
2. you have absolutely zero expertise in the area.

Utter BS from you.

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I have an MSc in an economics related topic.

Tell me where I am wrong.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I have an MSc in an economics related topic.

Tell me where I am wrong.

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What's an "Economics-related topic"? And from where? I smell more BS.

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Originally Posted by az city

What are you asking for? Your statements/conjectures are so vague that it's difficult to tell.

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You basically come on and insult me and offer nothing in return.

I made predictions, by definition, they cannot be proved right or wrong by anyone, but tell me where they are so radically incorrect or why you are so confident they won't happen that you will come on and insult people who suggest them.

I'm happy to take the time to expand upon the reasoning

Come on.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

In the coming years, I would anticipate:
Rising wages
Greater housing affordability
Greater infiltration and engagement with faster growing global economies
GDP to rise slightly faster than typical in the previous years
Lower unemployment than in the last 10-20 years
Greater emphasis on manufacturing
A more dynamic R&D sector
Greater investment in public services.
A more interventionist form of economic management
A more dynamic, agile and faster moving govt
Greater investments in workplace training, apprenticeships etc

Ultimately we have left a club that contains Germany, France, Spain, Italy et al and joined one that contains South Korea, Japan, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland et al.

In or out of the EU will make far less positive or negative impact than people think, as the foundations of a strong economy are rooted in other issues, but on balance I think Britain will do better and I do think society and the economy will be fairer and more balanced.

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:hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::h ehe::hehe:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

You basically come on and insult me and offer nothing in return.

I made predictions, by definition, they cannot be proved right or wrong by anyone, but tell me where they are so radically incorrect or why you are so confident they won't happen that you will come on and insult people who suggest them.

I'm happy to take the time to expand upon the reasoning

Come on.

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I haven't insulted you at all. I posted that you were spouting BS. All I know about you is that you have an MSc in an "Economics-related subject". I didn't disparage you as a person I took aim at your views thus I have not insulted YOU.

'Fess up what's the "Economics-related subject" and what august institution granted you the degree?

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Originally Posted by ninian opinian

:hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::hehe::h ehe::hehe:

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Another one. But no sunstantive response.

The reality is advanced nations outside the EU have generally higher growth, generally lower unemployment, are free to create bilateral trade deals with faster growing developing countries, are free to intervene in their economies and offer state support more, will be less reliant on free movement of labour and thus more likely to train up apprenticeships etc.

Compare equivalent countries inside and outside the EU, and I'm sorry, it doesnt paint a picture that says membership of the EU is necessary for economic success at all.

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Originally Posted by az city

I haven't insulted you at all. I posted that you were spouting BS. All I know about you is that you have an MSc in an "Economics-related subject". I didn't disparage you as a person I took aim at your views thus I have not insulted YOU.

'Fess up what's the "Economics-related subject" and what august institution granted you the degree?

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Yes you did, you said I was talking BS. But if that were the case, you would have offered a counter to it in the last 3-4 posts you've made, and you havent.

I've PM'd you, now if my post was such 'BS' then counter my predictions.

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Originally Posted by az city

What's an "Economics-related topic"? And from where? I smell more BS.

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Why not debate the matter in a mature way?

Few reasons for the shortages in my humble opinion.

The last eighteen months we've had the old boys retire and the young ones not being able to train or take their test.
£2000 for training and test.
Poor wages.
Working up to 15 hours a day, then spending the rest of the day in the same cab. Eat, sleep, repeat all week.
CPC course. Five days in a classroom listening to someone tell me how to do the job that I've been doing before he was born. Five days holiday taken and £250 of my own money for said course. Nice.

Any other HGV drivers on here?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

In the coming years, I would anticipate:
Rising wages
Greater housing affordability
Greater infiltration and engagement with faster growing global economies
GDP to rise slightly faster than typical in the previous years
Lower unemployment than in the last 10-20 years
Greater emphasis on manufacturing
A more dynamic R&D sector
Greater investment in public services.
A more interventionist form of economic management
A more dynamic, agile and faster moving govt
Greater investments in workplace training, apprenticeships etc

Ultimately we have left a club that contains Germany, France, Spain, Italy et al and joined one that contains South Korea, Japan, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Switzerland et al.

In or out of the EU will make far less positive or negative impact than people think, as the foundations of a strong economy are rooted in other issues, but on balance I think Britain will do better and I do think society and the economy will be fairer and more balanced.

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You’re asking people to point out what they think is wrong about the above, my reply would be the bit that starts with “In the coming years I would anticipate” and ends with “the economy will be fairer and more balanced” - sorry, I couldn’t resist that.

I’m old enough to remember what life used to be like before we joined the Common Market as it was called then. I was too young really to have much coherent political knowledge, but I can remember thinking that it didn’t seem too different in the Common Market from what life was like out of it. Because of this, I was less bothered about the Referendum than most and figured the outcome wouldn’t make a great deal on difference either way. I’m less sure of that now andI must say that I can’t remember a time when so many of the important goods, services and items we’re very reliant on have faced problems like the ones we’ve seen in the last month or so - it would seem a huge coincidence for none of it at all to be Brexit related.

As for your views, your attitude looks to be one of “prove my guesses are wrong with facts” - that seems a bit unfair to me towards people who, like you, are making guesses. Brexit arouses so many strong emotions and I bet the huge majority of people are still just favouring the side they voted for - we’re all just guessing though.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

A more dynamic, agile and faster moving govt

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This means absolutely nothing, total PR guff

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Challenge specific bits then. The EU generally has higher unemployment and lower growth than comparable countries outside, so while the laissez faire single market model does have some benefits, it clearly has costs too.

Explain why you think I am wrong - cite the advanced nations outside the EU that are struggling so. Which are they? Norway? Australia? Canada? South Korea? Where? Where are these economic disaster nations?

Where is your evidence that prolonged membership of the EU for advanced western nations (as we are) is better long term than those outside? I'm afraid the evidence doesnt really exist.

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I'm intrigued by the claims of more affordable housing? House prices are rising faster than wages so what will make housing more affordable?
'Rising wages' as you anticipate means nothing on it's own, and that happens year on year anyway.

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Originally Posted by The Bloop

I'm intrigued by the claims of more affordable housing? House prices are rising faster than wages so what will make housing more affordable?
'Rising wages' as you anticipate means nothing on it's own, and that happens year on year anyway.

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Wouldn't rising wages lead to higher inflation and cut even further adrift those at the bottom?

Some greedy companies have been using cheap agencies now the workers who were happy working for pittance have finished they are stumped and struggling..

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I don't know how you have come to that conclusion, I was simply giving my opinion on why some people in the poorest areas voted to leave. I think that you're trying to be too clever. Incidentally, wealth has never dripped down to me.

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Well the poor of Eastern Europe came here to better their lives and I'm OK with that.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I wasn’t having a go, just interested in knowing.

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OK, sorry, my misunderstanding.

My point was that some people are all for wealth redistribution until they realise they are in fact those who are better off, and that redistribution will be to those worse off than them.

If you earn about £20k per annum you're in the top 1% of earners worldwide

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Originally Posted by az city

Laughable. Most, if not all of that, is complete tripe.

It's complete conjecture from you. What expertise are you drawing upon to spout such utter rubbish?

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It belongs in "printers that just work and other fairy stories"

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

They are predictions about the future, completely unprovable either way, until say 2024, 2025. but that is what I think will happen based on my knowledge of current affairs and economics.

What evidence do you have that advanced western nations such as the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, Japan etc do worse economically than Italy, Germany, Belgium, Spain, Sweden, France etc? The evidence doesn't exist.

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They don't, but they are not on our border facilitating easy trade.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I have an MSc in an economics related topic.

Tell me where I am wrong.

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You have a degree in a pseudo science and the school of thought you follow often depends on your politics.

It's at best an art form.

Saying you have an MSC doesn't give you the credence you think it does.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

OK, sorry, my misunderstanding.

My point was that some people are all for wealth redistribution until they realise they are in fact those who are better off, and that redistribution will be to those worse off than them.

If you earn about £20k per annum you're in the top 1% of earners worldwide

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I find this interesting and I wonder how we've got to this point as it hasn't been this way through history.

The mega wealthy have found a way of convincing those modest earners of around 20k that those at the bottom of the ladder are the problem. When I look at the history of how Wales grew in the late 1800s it is apparent how so many rallied around the low paid miners and others. Things were done for the greater good in the community.

Somehow we've managed to victimise those at the bottom of the ladder. Plenty would rather give them a harsh lesson than help. Our forefathers would be appalled.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

Well the poor of Eastern Europe came here to better their lives and I'm OK with that.

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Absolutely. Imagine how awesome a borderless planet would be.

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Originally Posted by az city

Absolutely. Imagine how awesome a borderless planet would be.

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Like it used to be with survival of the fittest I would think.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

Like it used to be with survival of the fittest I would think.

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That crumbled in 1989, along with the wall

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I find this interesting and I wonder how we've got to this point as it hasn't been this way through history.

The mega wealthy have found a way of convincing those modest earners of around 20k that those at the bottom of the ladder are the problem. When I look at the history of how Wales grew in the late 1800s it is apparent how so many rallied around the low paid miners and others. Things were done for the greater good in the community.

Somehow we've managed to victimise those at the bottom of the ladder. Plenty would rather give them a harsh lesson than help. Our forefathers would be appalled.

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:thumbup:

Nowhere near as effective mass media in those days Eric.

Well done the government and hurrah for Boris who have quickly come up with an answer to the problem.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58687026

Good to see they’re sticking to their principles.

:biggrin:

I have all the licences. HGV and PCV. Companies, work friends, lots of people have been phoning me. How much do I want? £100, £200, £300, name your price. Am I going to do it? No.

The days of me driving all over the country, sleeping in the cab, nowhere to park, toilet is a field or the back of an industrial estate, stuck in traffic on some motorway somewhere and VOSA waiting around the corner because you've gone 5 minutes over your tacho - those days are over.

In any other occupation, if you were required to drive all day to some place far away you would probably be offered food and accommodation. Truck and coach drivers rarely get anything.

My licence expires in April 2022 and my CPC in 2024. I am not wasting any more money on CPC and I doubt if I will bother with the medical next year.

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Originally Posted by celever

I have all the licences. HGV and PCV. Companies, work friends, lots of people have been phoning me. How much do I want? £100, £200, £300, name your price. Am I going to do it? No.

The days of me driving all over the country, sleeping in the cab, nowhere to park, toilet is a field or the back of an industrial estate, stuck in traffic on some motorway somewhere and VOSA waiting around the corner because you've gone 5 minutes over your tacho - those days are over.

In any other occupation, if you were required to drive all day to some place far away you would probably be offered food and accommodation. Truck and coach drivers rarely get anything.

My licence expires in April 2022 and my CPC in 2024. I am not wasting any more money on CPC and I doubt if I will bother with the medical next year.

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Thanks for an interesting read - welcome to the forum :thumbup:

Sadly, I am also old enough to remember what life was like before we joined the EEC/EU.

We had fruit and veg that was in season. The chip shops put a piece of paper in the window 'now frying new potatoes'. Everything had a time and place. Strawberries in the summer and sprouts at Christmas. Over the last few decades we have become used to being able to buy everything all year round.

If you wanted a decent pasty, you went down Coombes' shop. Was it in Broadway or Clifton Street, I can't remember. Now the pasties are made in a mega-factory in Plymouth and a fleet of trucks transport them all over the country.

My local village pub will run out of beer tomorrow. The beer comes by truck from mega-breweries in Burton. Again a fleet of trucks.

We are heading into a new era. Global warming, too many emissions. I see a return to a more local, less polluting economy is approaching.

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Originally Posted by celever

Sadly, I am also old enough to remember what life was like before we joined the EEC/EU.

We had fruit and veg that was in season. The chip shops put a piece of paper in the window 'now frying new potatoes'. Everything had a time and place. Strawberries in the summer and sprouts at Christmas. Over the last few decades we have become used to being able to buy everything all year round.

If you wanted a decent pasty, you went down Coombes' shop. Was it in Broadway or Clifton Street, I can't remember. Now the pasties are made in a mega-factory in Plymouth and a fleet of trucks transport them all over the country.

My local village pub will run out of beer tomorrow. The beer comes by truck from mega-breweries in Burton. Again a fleet of trucks.

We are heading into a new era. Global warming, too many emissions. I see a return to a more local, less polluting economy is approaching.

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You reminded me there that, although I like them now, new potatoes were a reason to dread the summer when I was a kid because my mum was so restricted in what she could do with them and we had to wait until it got colder and wetter before we could have proper chips, roasters and mash.

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Originally Posted by Feedback

Well the poor of Eastern Europe came here to better their lives and I'm OK with that.

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Glad to Hear it.