Youtube video claiming only 17,000 died of Covid exposed as inaccurate by BBC

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Originally Posted by Tokyo Blue

Clearly he understands more than you as he scrutinises data without an agenda and doesn't seek to reinforce a narrative. The BBC have outrightly misrepresented him and defamed him by accusing him of diminishing the emotional impact of those who have died. He should sue their bloody bollocks off.

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They did no such thing.

The BBC said:

"The misleading "17,000" figure was spread by influential accounts online. On 14 January, former Islamist turned counter-extremism activist Maajid Nawaz tweeted that the figures were evidence of "narrative collapse", implying the larger reported death figures were not genuine.

"Then on 20 January, Dr John Campbell, a retired nurse educator who has amassed a huge following on YouTube, released a video describing the figures as a "huge story" and suggested Covid deaths were "much lower than mainstream media seems to have been intimating".

"His video has been viewed more than 1.5 million times to date and was shared by Conservative MP David Davis."

No mention of Campbell "diminishing the emotional impact of those who have died."

I watched both his original clickbait video and his 'rebuttal' video.

In the first video, the good doctor states within the first 20 seconds that a new freedom of information release "shows the number of deaths solely attributable to Covid may be way lower than anyone had thought." Of course, he puts special emphasis on the words way lower, because that's evidently what a significant proportion of those who watch his videos want to hear.

Within the first two and a half minutes, Campbell describes the 'new' information as "really quite profound." A minute later, he's describing it as a "huge story" which hasn't been picked up by mainstream media. It's blatantly obvious which particular gallery he was playing to with such comments.

Something struck me immediately when I watched the initial video - it was distinctly odd that an apparently legitimate health professional would be in any way surprised by these figures and would attempt to sensationalise them in the way that Campbell so clearly did. After all, any health professional worth his or her salt would know the effects of Covid-19 and would also know how death certificates are formulated, and would therefore know that the number of death certificates carrying Covid-19 alone as a cause of death would likely be relatively small.

I knew that much from my work registering deaths at sea, and I'm not a doctor or a medical professional of any kind. I'm merely a low-grade civil servant. So why did Campbell act so surprised and describe the figures as "really quite profound" and a "huge story"?

As for his 'rebuttal' video, I only watched a few minutes of that. It was toe-curling.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

They did no such thing.

The BBC said:

"The misleading "17,000" figure was spread by influential accounts online. On 14 January, former Islamist turned counter-extremism activist Maajid Nawaz tweeted that the figures were evidence of "narrative collapse", implying the larger reported death figures were not genuine.

"Then on 20 January, Dr John Campbell, a retired nurse educator who has amassed a huge following on YouTube, released a video describing the figures as a "huge story" and suggested Covid deaths were "much lower than mainstream media seems to have been intimating".

"His video has been viewed more than 1.5 million times to date and was shared by Conservative MP David Davis."

No mention of Campbell "diminishing the emotional impact of those who have died."

I watched both his original clickbait video and his 'rebuttal' video.

In the first video, the good doctor states within the first 20 seconds that a new freedom of information release "shows the number of deaths solely attributable to Covid may be way lower than anyone had thought." Of course, he puts special emphasis on the words way lower, because that's evidently what a significant proportion of those who watch his videos want to hear.

Within the first two and a half minutes, Campbell describes the 'new' information as "really quite profound." A minute later, he's describing it as a "huge story" which hasn't been picked up by mainstream media. It's blatantly obvious which particular gallery he was playing to with such comments.

Something struck me immediately when I watched the initial video - it was distinctly odd that an apparently legitimate health professional would be in any way surprised by these figures and would attempt to sensationalise them in the way that Campbell so clearly did. After all, any health professional worth his or her salt would know the effects of Covid-19 and would also know how death certificates are formulated, and would therefore know that the number of death certificates carrying Covid-19 alone as a cause of death would likely be relatively small.

I knew that much from my work registering deaths at sea, and I'm not a doctor or a medical professional of any kind. I'm merely a low-grade civil servant. So why did Campbell act so surprised and describe the figures as "really quite profound" and a "huge story"?

As for his 'rebuttal' video, I only watched a few minutes of that. It was toe-curling.

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Well said. I'm exhausted with this stuff. As I said in my post, he knew exactly what he was doing. I tried watching the rebuttal video too but lasted 5 minutes of the 20 required because his presentation style with the pen (underlining, circling, ticking) was like fingers down a blackboard to me. YouTuber fanbois are worse than the actual 'influencers' sometimes.

The "Pure Covid" stuff has been the favoured anti-lockdown unicorn of the people not "seduced" by mainstream thinking since the pandemic began. Here is that free thinker Wales Bales chucking it in in May 2020

https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.ph...=1#post5077593

The original Campbell video was all innuendo (mainstream cover up) without the bollocks to say what that meant. He used a fellow sceptic, Sikora to intimate that this could cause an extra 50k excess cancer deaths (which he argued in May 2020) though even Campbell had to admit he didn't know where he plucked that figure from.

Thankfully there is more persuasive research out there of the kind that does not need to be aired in rambling Youtube videos. Unlike the 40 minutes of your life on Campbell including 20 of full on snowflake, this is only an 8 minute read.

https://www.health.org.uk/publicatio...g-the-pandemic

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Originally Posted by Tokyo Blue

Multiple members of Sage either don't or didn't have any of those qualifications, and yet they influence government policy. What's your point?

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I think you misunderstand the structure and setup of Sage. Nobody can be an expert in all the needed fields and it has been set up to account for that.

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Originally Posted by Tokyo Blue

Multiple members of Sage either don't or didn't have any of those qualifications, and yet they influence government policy. What's your point?

Clearly he understands more than you as he scrutinises data without an agenda and doesn't seek to reinforce a narrative. The BBC have outrightly misrepresented him and defamed him by accusing him of diminishing the emotional impact of those who have died. He should sue their bloody bollocks off.

But had you condescended to watch his rebuttal video where he explains his position in relation to the BBC tripe, then you yourself would be aware of this.

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Would the "retired nurse educator" earn money from his Youtube postings? If he does earn money from his opinions, is he not incentivized to offer the pernicious and controversial viewpoints that his 2M followers demand?

He doesn't "scrutinize data". He doesn't have access to primary data. Very few people have access to the primary data around Covid-19. There's a reason - it's proprietary in most countries. What he apparently does is determinedly misinterpret statistics (possibly to his pecuniary benefit). There's a fundamental difference between the two.

Someone else made the relevant and apposite point that nobody on Sage has expertise and experience in all the required fields. It's a group which draws upon multiple disciplines. I know for a fact that "nurse educator" is not one if the primary disciplines among groups who have advised governments on the pandemic.

I honestly feel as though he is being misrepresented here and
I don't feel as though he needed to sensationalize anything.

He has been Critical of many things from a bipartisan standpoint.

When he has been incorrect about something he has earnestly held his hands up.

Unbelievable that there would be a witch hunt against someone who has been so incredibly helpful throughout this pandemic.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

I honestly feel as though he is being misrepresented here and
I don't feel as though he needed to sensationalize anything.

He has been Critical of many things from a bipartisan standpoint.

When he has been incorrect about something he has earnestly held his hands up.

Unbelievable that there would be a witch hunt against someone who has been so incredibly helpful throughout this pandemic.

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As helpful as Joe Rogan maybe?

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

As helpful as Joe Rogan maybe?

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Has Joe Rogan promoted vaccines and advocated mask wearing?

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

Has Joe Rogan promoted vaccines and advocated mask wearing?

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No I'll concede that.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

I honestly feel as though he is being misrepresented here and
I don't feel as though he needed to sensationalize anything.

He has been Critical of many things from a bipartisan standpoint.

When he has been incorrect about something he has earnestly held his hands up.

Unbelievable that there would be a witch hunt against someone who has been so incredibly helpful throughout this pandemic.

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I've watched some good stuff by him but there's no doubt in my mind the video that's caused a problem was a f*ck up. Having said that, it's important to remember that the BBC article and subsequent publicity will mean more revenue. YouTubers who garner 2M+ subscribers and 1M+ views per video aren't doing it for pleasure. It's a business.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

I've watched some good stuff by him ........

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Yet earlier you wrote, "I tried watching the rebuttal video too but lasted 5 minutes of the 20 required because his presentation style with the pen (underlining, circling, ticking) was like fingers down a blackboard to me."
:sherlock:

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

I've watched some good stuff by him but there's no doubt in my mind the video that's caused a problem was a f*ck up. Having said that, it's important to remember that the BBC article and subsequent publicity will mean more revenue. YouTubers who garner 2M+ subscribers and 1M+ views per video aren't doing it for pleasure. It's a business.

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I think that he has way more integrity than you give him credit for.

Wouldn't trust a word the BBC says.

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Originally Posted by Cyclops

Yet earlier you wrote, "I tried watching the rebuttal video too but lasted 5 minutes of the 20 required because his presentation style with the pen (underlining, circling, ticking) was like fingers down a blackboard to me."
:sherlock:

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We're not doing this Cyclops.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

I think that he has way more integrity than you give him credit for.

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You're probably right Wash. I'm not out to have a go mate I'm just a terrible cynic. Been burned too many times over the years.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

You're probably right Wash. I'm not out to have a go mate I'm just a terrible cynic. Been burned too many times over the years.

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I hear you Mate.
Sadly I think that we all are at the moment to varying extents.

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

I hear you Mate.
Sadly I think that we all are at the moment to varying extents.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Cyclops

Yet earlier you wrote, "I tried watching the rebuttal video too but lasted 5 minutes of the 20 required because his presentation style with the pen (underlining, circling, ticking) was like fingers down a blackboard to me."
:sherlock:

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I was a tad short with my reply the other day as it was a bad one (day) so I apologise. Some days are much worse than others. Secondary Progressive MS is like that. On the day that I was looking at the rebuttal video, my Diplopia (double vision) was worse and so the pen work in the vid was ‘like nails down a blackboard’ to me. Other times when I’ve seen his videos it’s been manageable, but still not great.

There’s nothing more to it than that. I never want to fall out with anyone as life’s too short. I probably wouldn’t even be on this board if it hadn’t been for you (yes, everyone else can blame Cyclops for my membership!) and you posted some very kind words the other day which I meant to thank you for at the time and forgot. Just wanted to clarify a few things and didn’t want to leave things messy. Have a great day!

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

I was a tad short with my reply the other day as it was a bad one (day) so I apologise. Some days are much worse than others. Secondary Progressive MS is like that. On the day that I was looking at the rebuttal video, my Diplopia (double vision) was worse and so the pen work in the vid was ‘like nails down a blackboard’ to me. Other times when I’ve seen his videos it’s been manageable, but still not great.

There’s nothing more to it than that. I never want to fall out with anyone as life’s too short. I probably wouldn’t even be on this board if it hadn’t been for you (yes, everyone else can blame Cyclops for my membership!) and you posted some very kind words the other day which I meant to thank you for at the time and forgot. Just wanted to clarify a few things and didn’t want to leave things messy. Have a great day!

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It's decent of you to post this.
I did feel your response was totally out of character, but refrained from further comment. Now you've explained, I fully understand and commiserate. We all have good and bad days. As I said before, I enjoy your posts and think you're a great addition to the forum.
I'm not naturally combative, but when posters like TLG attack me, I'll be damned if I'll roll over and take it.
MS is a terrible condition to endure. A dear friend contracted it early in her life and it was harrowing to see her decline. though even that had its humorous moments. Like the time her foot slipped off the pedal of the automatic car she was driving and she ploughed into another car. It's irate driver stormed towards her. She slowly emerged, there was a lot of shaking, and when he took stock of the situation he was apologetic personified.
It does help us understand our fellow posters when we know something of their back-story. I've met several and wouldn't dream of being aggressive towards them - apart from TBG, Tuerto, tforturton and Mrs SR of course. :hehe:
You've just made a great day (an old school friend phoned out of the blue after 60 years this am), even greater!

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Originally Posted by Bald Barry Bastad

Wouldn't trust a word the BBC says.

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"I only believe The Sun and GB News"

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Originally Posted by Cyclops

It's decent of you to post this.
I did feel your response was totally out of character, but refrained from further comment. Now you've explained, I fully understand and commiserate. We all have good and bad days. As I said before, I enjoy your posts and think you're a great addition to the forum.
I'm not naturally combative, but when posters like TLG attack me, I'll be damned if I'll roll over and take it.
MS is a terrible condition to endure. A dear friend contracted it early in her life and it was harrowing to see her decline. though even that had its humorous moments. Like the time her foot slipped off the pedal of the automatic car she was driving and she ploughed into another car. It's irate driver stormed towards her. She slowly emerged, there was a lot of shaking, and when he took stock of the situation he was apologetic personified.
It does help us understand our fellow posters when we know something of their back-story. I've met several and wouldn't dream of being aggressive towards them - apart from TBG, Tuerto, tforturton and Mrs SR of course. :hehe:
You've just made a great day (an old school friend phoned out of the blue after 60 years this am), even greater!

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:thumbup: Thank you.