Subs made a huge difference tonight

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

That's not personal. I'm not attacking you. I don't agree with Morison's man management. You seem to approve of what he said. I wouldn't want to play for Morison and if you think that is the best way to deal with young players, I wouldn't want to for you either.

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You called Morison a tosser. If thats not personal and totally unnecessary, I don't know what is. In case you haven't noticed, we now have 12 points out of the last 15 and are playing a totally different type of football to what went before. You group of Morison haters need to get over yourselves - you are just making yourselves look stupid.

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Watters stayed sat in the stands on his own and didn't go in with the team at HT so not sure what you're basing this on.

Personally I've got no problem with the fact that he had to rest a bunch of players but not waiting the extra 9 minutes until half time to sub Watters was completely unnecessary and an absolute dick move. Although still harsh you could kind of understand it if a centre back was having an absolute shocker and making mistakes that were almost giving goals away but Watters a) is a striker and b) he wasn't having THAT bad a game, it's not his fault the midfield were having rings run round them.

He's doing an ok job but Morison consistently comes across as an incredibly unlikeable person. Yes I know he's not here to be liked but being that he's the figurehead for our club it is a shame

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Well I like him.Its obvious he's a my way or the highway type of manager.It didn't do Davies any harm did it,quite the opposite.Theres been a culture by some fans calling for a new manager after a few indiferent results and this guy knows it.To me he's the ruthless kind of manager we've needed for a long time.If he gets his way we'll soon be plying our trade alot higher

Watters wasn't working for the team, he makes good runs and looked quite lively but out of possession is lazy (or maybe not fit enough).

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Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks

The game changed massively when Huggel came on. Watters was far too light weight.
Why has Morrison got this love in with Vaulkes, he should have been subbed at half time

But a great result

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I really don't know what game people are watching sometimes. Vaulks played well tonight and was in the team probably because Ralls and Doyle were being rested. Its a squad game, especially with 3 games in 7 days.

Completely wrong midfield set up to accommodate a striker like Watters, he was pointing out that he wanted the ball played through on the deck. Ok he should have put that header away but his hooked shot that hit the ‘keeper wasn’t a bad effort. Morison’s initial team selection was decidedly iffy and can anyone, hand on heart, say they thought it was a convincing set up pre match? Not a nice way to substitute a young player, half time was less than ten minutes away. Morison could have bollocked Watters privately if he hadn’t carried out his instructions and diplomatically carried the can publicly for his initial team selection especially as he could bask in the ‘master stroke’ changes resulting in a 2-0 win.

After our recent turnaround, Morison should be receiving 100% glowing reports from us, the fans, unfortunately through his own doing he’s dividing the fan base. Very sad.

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Watters stayed sat in the stands on his own and didn't go in with the team at HT so not sure what you're basing this on.

Personally I've got no problem with the fact that he had to rest a bunch of players but not waiting the extra 9 minutes until half time to sub Watters was completely unnecessary and an absolute dick move. Although still harsh you could kind of understand it if a centre back was having an absolute shocker and making mistakes that were almost giving goals away but Watters a) is a striker and b) he wasn't having THAT bad a game, it's not his fault the midfield were having rings run round them.

He's doing an ok job but Morison consistently comes across as an incredibly unlikeable person. Yes I know he's not here to be liked but being that he's the figurehead for our club it is a shame

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Thing is, being likeable is actually part of the job. He's a manager. He will need to recruit heavily in the summer, likely unproven players at this level. His stance of happily throwing youngsters under the bus is not exactly going to help.

I actually don't mind the substitution itself. I think he's a decent game manager and tactician, and i like that he's willing to do things like that if it is not working. But he isn't just a coach or a tactician any more, he is supposed to be a manager. You simply do not hang your players out to dry like he did tonight. It doesn't help the player, the squad, or the future recruitment drive. It's an ego-driven short-term decision thing that someone trying to prove a point does, not someone who is actually in control.

He was asked how the game went. He said something like "pretty well from the 37th minute". He couldn't even wait for the inevitable question about the substitution before sticking the boot in. And when asked about the substitution, he blamed Watters for not doing anything right and listed all the things he did wrong. Even said that Watters had come with a price tag. Why? The correct answer here is to say he wanted to make a tactical change and while he was really sorry about it blah blah blah, he felt that was the right time to do it. Or, if he had a pair, he'd say that he got the starting line up wrong (he did) and had asked Watters to play a role that he's not cut out for (he did) and while it's not Watters' fault, he had to correct it when it became apparent etc. The interviewer even gave him a chance to redeem himself and asked what they would to in order to restore his confidence, but he just wanked on about how great his coaching staff is. It's an utterly stupid way to deal with the player. He even said he wanted him to hurt. FFS Steve, he is obviously humiliated already. In the interview your job is to circle the wagons, give cliche answers and/or deflect the blame away from the lad. I hope Watters chins him in training. What a whopper.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

I really don't know what game people are watching sometimes. Vaulks played well tonight and was in the team probably because Ralls and Doyle were being rested. Its a squad game, especially with 3 games in 7 days.

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Sky gave Vaulks man of the match I think. I thought he had a good game.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick

Sky gave Vaulks man of the match I think. I thought he had a good game.

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Sky gave Vaulks man of the match. Seriously??

Bagan by a mile for me.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Completely wrong midfield set up to accommodate a striker like Watters, he was pointing out that he wanted the ball played through on the deck. Ok he should have put that header away but his hooked shot that hit the ‘keeper wasn’t a bad effort. Morison’s initial team selection was decidedly iffy and can anyone, hand on heart, say they thought it was a convincing set up pre match? Not a nice way to substitute a young player, half time was less than ten minutes away. Morison could have bollocked Watters privately if he hadn’t carried out his instructions and diplomatically carried the can publicly for his initial team selection especially as he could bask in the ‘master stroke’ changes resulting in a 2-0 win.

After our recent turnaround, Morison should be receiving 100% glowing reports from us, the fans, unfortunately through his own doing he’s dividing the fan base. Very sad.

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What is sad is that some fans are not backing a young, British track suited manager who is doing a good job. Any player would get the hump at being brought off after 37 minutes but it had to be done and worked. To leave the substitution until half time, just so as to not upset the player, is a stupid suggestion. We could have been one down by then or worse. Watters was not pressing enough and the ball was bouncing off him. I think there is a good player in there but he needs to modify the way he plays to suit the new system. If he cant, then it will be unfortunate but he will fall by the wayside here - thats the way football works.

There's a connection with players who morison doesn't believe work hard enough out of possession. reading between the lines that was why he slagged off Davies, that's why Watters was hooked, and i believe that work rate is his problem with Colwill.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

There's a connection with players who morison doesn't believe work hard enough out of possession. reading between the lines that was why he slagged off Davies, that's why Watters was hooked, and i believe that work rate is his problem with Colwill.

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But Davies has trained and played his way back into the starting 11.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

What is sad is that some fans are not backing a young, British track suited manager who is doing a good job. Any player would get the hump at being brought off after 37 minutes but it had to be done and worked. To leave the substitution until half time, just so as to not upset the player, is a stupid suggestion. We could have been one down by then or worse. Watters was not pressing enough and the ball was bouncing off him. I think there is a good player in there but he needs to modify the way he plays to suit the new system. If he cant, then it will be unfortunate but he will fall by the wayside here - thats the way football works.

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I agree with all of that, and in particular the idea that he shouldn't waste 8 minutes of the first half when he's decided to make the change. It was a good change. But the way he dealt with it was dreadful. Stick an arm around him, shoulder the blame but don't blame the player. He can make the change and effect the game and he did, which was good. But there are things he can do to mitigate the humiliation for the player he brought off.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick

Thing is, being likeable is actually part of the job. He's a manager. He will need to recruit heavily in the summer, likely unproven players at this level. His stance of happily throwing youngsters under the bus is not exactly going to help.

I actually don't mind the substitution itself. I think he's a decent game manager and tactician, and i like that he's willing to do things like that if it is not working. But he isn't just a coach or a tactician any more, he is supposed to be a manager. You simply do not hang your players out to dry like he did tonight. It doesn't help the player, the squad, or the future recruitment drive. It's an ego-driven short-term decision thing that someone trying to prove a point does, not someone who is actually in control.

He was asked how the game went. He said something like "pretty well from the 37th minute". He couldn't even wait for the inevitable question about the substitution before sticking the boot in. And when asked about the substitution, he blamed Watters for not doing anything right and listed all the things he did wrong. Even said that Watters had come with a price tag. Why? The correct answer here is to say he wanted to make a tactical change and while he was really sorry about it blah blah blah, he felt that was the right time to do it. Or, if he had a pair, he'd say that he got the starting line up wrong (he did) and had asked Watters to play a role that he's not cut out for (he did) and while it's not Watters' fault, he had to correct it when it became apparent etc. The interviewer even gave him a chance to redeem himself and asked what they would to in order to restore his confidence, but he just wanked on about how great his coaching staff is. It's an utterly stupid way to deal with the player. He even said he wanted him to hurt. FFS Steve, he is obviously humiliated already. In the interview your job is to circle the wagons, give cliche answers and/or deflect the blame away from the lad. I hope Watters chins him in training. What a whopper.

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So what you are saying is that you want the manager to lie to the media and ‘big up’ players that have poor games - which is exactly what Warnock got criticised for doing all the time by the way. I think players will give more respect to and work harder for a manager who says it like it is and works with them to improve themselves, which is what Morison has done with Watters (and Davies) both in the Under 23’s when he had him there and now in the first team squad. All this ‘mock indignation’ at the way Morison talks about players is ridiculous. Team morale and recent performances and results indicate that the players are right behind the manager and the way he is doing things.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

But Davies has trained and played his way back into the starting 11.

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Yeah, i said that is why he slagged him off on that occasion, because Davies wasn't working hard enough in Morisons eyes, on that given day, not in general.That's how i saw it.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Sure as night follows day, he's said Watters wasn't good enough. It was Morison's fault, not Watters. He's an absolute tosser.

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He's absolutely right. Watters is not good enough. The only thing I'll say against Morison is he shouldn't have picked him in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks

I agree, why is there an anti morrison vibe on here.
It's not flower arranging it's professional football. The players have to harden up a bit .
Morrison got the sub spot on, we could have been 2 0 down at half time.
People should stop thinking players are precious souls

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Totally agree. Some on here are so precious. If the players aren't mentally tough enough to cope with Morison they're not good enough to succeed at this level.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

So what you are saying is that you want the manager to lie to the media and ‘big up’ players that have poor games - which is exactly what Warnock got criticised for doing all the time by the way. I think players will give more respect to and work harder for a manager who says it like it is and works with them to improve themselves, which is what Morison has done with Watters (and Davies) both in the Under 23’s when he had him there and now in the first team squad. All this ‘mock indignation’ at the way Morison talks about players is ridiculous. Team morale and recent performances and results indicate that the players are right behind the manager and the way he is doing things.

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Not at all - who mentioned bigging anyone up? I am saying I don't want him needlessly slagging off his players, especially one who has just been humiliated by being dragged off in the first half. The players will know what he thought of Watters performance. Everyone did, even before the interview. And he can say what he likes behind closed doors. No need to kick him again, publicly, when he's down. I'd argue that a player staying on the bench during half time would suggest that not all of the players are right behind him by the way.

For what it's worth: I think he is tactically good, and doing a good job under the circumstances. The team is certainly a better one than the one he inherited, and the direction we are moving in provides some hope for the future and that is down to him. I am also generally a fan of people talking straight and taking action quickly. But there are times when there really is no need to stick the boot in, but Morison goes for it anyway. It's pointlessly hostile.

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Watters stayed sat in the stands on his own and didn't go in with the team at HT so not sure what you're basing this on.

Personally I've got no problem with the fact that he had to rest a bunch of players but not waiting the extra 9 minutes until half time to sub Watters was completely unnecessary and an absolute dick move. Although still harsh you could kind of understand it if a centre back was having an absolute shocker and making mistakes that were almost giving goals away but Watters a) is a striker and b) he wasn't having THAT bad a game, it's not his fault the midfield were having rings run round them.

He's doing an ok job but Morison consistently comes across as an incredibly unlikeable person. Yes I know he's not here to be liked but being that he's the figurehead for our club it is a shame

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Watched a different game to me then. Missed a sitter in the first few minutes and contributed nothing afterwards. Deserved to come off.

No reason he couldn’t have waited until half time to make that change. It wasn’t a right back getting torn apart about to cost us a goal. He had just had a great chance from a nice run. Morrison got it wrong initially so it’s not some great move to make it right. Was a baffling decision to start and he’s thrown Watters under the bus. It wouldn’t have been a story at all had the sub been made.

He’s done a good job since the end of the window there is no denying that but he’s a twat. Still hope we go after Nathan Jones in the summer. Morrison came across a wanker as a player and nothing he does seems any different as a manager. That substitution and interview was for the sky cameras.

Don't care if he's a wanker as long as he's a success. We've had enough wankers for managers recently.

I would suggest that all you people criticising Morison should read this report in WOL after the game and actually read what he says, rather than making up your own commentary and jumping on the bandwagon.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...rdiff-23110932

Nothing to see there as far as I am concerned. Critical but balanced and encouraging of the player.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I agree. Morison made a mistake with his starting line up. He corrected that mistake - in a brutal way.

The main thing is what he now says and does with Watters (which none of us will see) to either destroy his confidence or use the situation to improve Watters as a club forward.

Davies got slaughtered a few weeks back and has since become a mainstay - which is a credit to him but also a vindication of Morison. Morison has a style which could be counter-productive, but so far his 'tough love' seems to work.

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I don't believe there is any evidence of a vindication of Morison Jon. I think there's outstanding evidence that Davies proved him wrong, works hard and has the making of a great player. I don't believe for one second that Morison has anything to do with it. I also don't believe there's something called 'tough love'. I think there's love, or being a bully. I've yet to be aware of a loveable bully.

Morison was a dick again tonight over Watters. I'll keep calling out an arsehole when I see one. He's an arsehole.

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBluebird

No reason he couldn’t have waited until half time to make that change. It wasn’t a right back getting torn apart about to cost us a goal. He had just had a great chance from a nice run. Morrison got it wrong initially so it’s not some great move to make it right. Was a baffling decision to start and he’s thrown Watters under the bus. It wouldn’t have been a story at all had the sub been made.

He’s done a good job since the end of the window there is no denying that but he’s a twat. Still hope we go after Nathan Jones in the summer. Morrison came across a wanker as a player and nothing he does seems any different as a manager. That substitution and interview was for the sky cameras.

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You had obviously made up your mind about him before he came here then and weren't prepared to give him any chance. How someone can call for a new manager with the improvement we have seen in the last few months is beyond me. All the evidence so far is that he will be a success.

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Originally Posted by Bald Barry Bastad

Totally agree. Some on here are so precious. If the players aren't mentally tough enough to cope with Morison they're not good enough to succeed at this level.

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This is a load of rubbish. Morrison has managed about 15 games at championship level, he isn’t some man manager guru that is right all the time. He’s learning on the job himself and isn’t automatically right in everything he does or says.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

I don't believe there is any evidence of a vindication of Morison Jon. I think there's outstanding evidence that Davies proved him wrong, works hard and has the making of a great player. I don't believe for one second that Morison has anything to do with it. I also don't believe there's something called 'tough love'. I think there's love, or being a bully. I've yet to be aware of a loveable bully.

Morison was a dick again tonight over Watters. I'll keep calling out an arsehole when I see one. He's an arsehole.

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Another snowflake who obviously hasn't read what he actually said about Davies or Watters. Morison trained and brought through Davies from the Under 23’s by the way, so is fully entitled to his share of the credit for what we see now.

Absolutely.. Nothing wrong with that interview. The more I read from Morison the more I'm impressed with him.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

You had obviously made up your mind about him before he came here then and weren't prepared to give him any chance. How someone can call for a new manager with the improvement we have seen in the last few months is beyond me. All the evidence so far is that he will be a success.

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What evidence? He has done very well since January no denying that. He also did very poor for 7 weeks when we didn’t win a game. I still think Nathan Jones would be better.

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBluebird

This is a load of rubbish. Morrison has managed about 15 games at championship level, he isn’t some man manager guru that is right all the time. He’s learning on the job himself and isn’t automatically right in everything he does or says.

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Absolutely but he was spot on with what he said today.

The thing is Morison isn't wrong. To be a centre forward at this level you need to be physical and you need to be able to look after the ball. I'm not saying you need to be a target man, but he's knocked off the ball so easily. There's no fight with him. Davies isn't a big lad either but he competes physically.

So Watters has a choice. He can stew over this, and end up in league 1 for the rest of his career. Or he can add that side to his game and be a success here, because he has a lot of other good attributes.

I don't buy into the "poor man management" thing either. If you're going to be successful you need players who are mentally strong, regardless of their age. Look at Bagan and Davies. Bagan taken out of the team, but he's taken on board what's being asked of him and he's improved massively. Since he got dug out at Bournemouth, Davies has been superb.

These guys are being thrown in at the deep end and being asked to get results. Coddling them isn't going to help anyone. Morison works with these players every day and knows their personalities far better than any of us.

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Originally Posted by dml1954

Another snowflake who obviously hasn't read what he actually said about Davies or Watters. Morison trained and brought through Davies from the Under 23’s by the way, so is fully entitled to his share of the credit for what we see now.

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:hehe:

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBluebird

What evidence? He has done very well since January no denying that. He also did very poor for 7 weeks when we didn’t win a game. I still think Nathan Jones would be better.

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He inherited a squad with no confidence and restricted ability, which takes time to turn around and has now altered the way the team plays and brought in his own better players, which is reaping the required results. If that isnt ‘evidence’ I don't know what is.

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Originally Posted by FormerlyJohnnyBreadhead

The thing is Morison isn't wrong. To be a centre forward at this level you need to be physical and you need to be able to look after the ball. I'm not saying you need to be a target man, but he's knocked off the ball so easily. There's no fight with him. Davies isn't a big lad either but he competes physically.

So Watters has a choice. He can stew over this, and end up in league 1 for the rest of his career. Or he can add that side to his game and be a success here, because he has a lot of other good attributes.

I don't buy into the "poor man management" thing either. If you're going to be successful you need players who are mentally strong, regardless of their age. Look at Bagan and Davies. Bagan taken out of the team, but he's taken on board what's being asked of him and he's improved massively. Since he got dug out at Bournemouth, Davies has been superb.

These guys are being thrown in at the deep end and being asked to get results. Coddling them isn't going to help anyone. Morison works with these players every day and knows their personalities far better than any of us.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by dml1954

So what you are saying is that you want the manager to lie to the media and ‘big up’ players that have poor games - which is exactly what Warnock got criticised for doing all the time by the way. I think players will give more respect to and work harder for a manager who says it like it is and works with them to improve themselves, which is what Morison has done with Watters (and Davies) both in the Under 23’s when he had him there and now in the first team squad. All this ‘mock indignation’ at the way Morison talks about players is ridiculous. Team morale and recent performances and results indicate that the players are right behind the manager and the way he is doing things.

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No, I’m saying don’t play Watters and ask him to play like Hugill. That won’t happen. You know it, I know it, Watters knows it, Morison knows it. Morison made a mistake. He should have the bollocks to say it. Even Jose admits it when he makes early subs, and we won so there’s an easy get out. We won the game, I got it wrong, the game went differently to how I thought so had to make a change tactically and thought Hugill was better suited etc etc. It’s not hard. What is the benefit on him slagging out Watters? Watters wasn't playing well but that’s because he was asked to do a role he’s not equipped to do.

Morison is obviously a hard bloke who doesn’t mind criticism. I would suggest the fact Watters sat on his own for the rest of the game and didn’t come in for half time would suggest he might need to be managed a little differently. People are different, Morison needs to work that out. If you publically embarrassed me twice in a couple of hours, I would go into my shell. I know I would. Morison has dug out Colwill, Davies, Sang, Watters, Bagan and others. He’s rarely dug out the senior pros for putting us in this position, in fact he’s blamed a lot of the youngsters for that. I don’t like him, I think he’s classless. I don’t think the football is that good, it’s just better than the garbage we had before. I don’t want him as manager of my football club and it’s a matter of time before he falls out with more of the players. And yes, I think he’s a tosser.

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Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird

Vaulks assist for the 1st goal was sublime!

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I think it's a stretch to call it an assist; it was a pass, Bagan did all the work.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick

Sky gave Vaulks man of the match I think. I thought he had a good game.

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They gave Bagan MOM; Vaulks presented him with the trophy.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

I think it's a stretch to call it an assist; it was a pass, Bagan did all the work.

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It looked like a total solo effort to me and I had a very good view from behind him. As soon as he struck it I knew it was going to be in the back of the onion. Great strike.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick

He was asked how the game went. He said something like "pretty well from the 37th minute". He couldn't even wait for the inevitable question about the substitution before sticking the boot in.

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Edit: my mistake. He said 25th minute, so not a dig at Watters. My error.

I didn't recognise the qotes from the WOL article. Presumably from the press conference. Here is what he said in the post match interview.

"he wasn't doing good enough. Wasn't winning first contact, wasn't being physical enough. The ball just kept coming back every time it went forward so I needed to make a change, I couldn't wait, I didn't want to wait. I'm quite a black and white guy, if I decide something in my head that I need to do, uh, so yeah. I made the call and it had an instant impact I felt. [goes on to praise Hugill].

He was then told Watters was clearly upset and was asked how he is going to ensure it doesn't affect his confidence:
"It will affect his confidence. It's my job now and my staff, we are a close-knit group [goes on to say the staff work hard] we will all sit down and we will go through it with Max. And we will show what we mean. And waht it looks like to be a top drawer championship striker. It's something he wants to be, he's got a price tag on his head coming to us, and,uh, he was unlucky because he could have scored in the first minute of the game and if he'd done that his performance might have changed a little bit." [goes on to say he didn't want to take him off, but he did and it worked]

All of this, by the way, before going on to say some really positive things about Bagan.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

They gave Bagan MOM; Vaulks presented him with the trophy.

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Ah thanks - only caught it out of the corner of my eye! Still think he had a decent game tho.

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Originally Posted by Optimistic Nick

Ah thanks - only caught it out of the corner of my eye! Still think he had a decent game tho.

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He did. I've seen him play well in the past, this season he's been abject but tonight there was a more composed player out there. He seemed happier to me too and his body language was good.

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Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

He did. I've seen him play well in the past, this season he's been abject but tonight there was a more composed player out there. He seemed happier to me too and his body language was good.

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I suppose it's weird how we all see different things in games. I'm not disagreeing with how you two saw the play but for me Vaulks was ok(ish) and didn't have a bad game. For me he doesn't contribute much and all the time I was thinking how much we missed Ralls.

He's a defensive midfielder and to my mind Wintle does what he does so much better so Vaulks for me is taking the place of a better, more creative midfielder. I'd like to see him moved on in the summer and I hope we recruit better. However, I appreciate we all see things differently and that's what makes these posts interesting.