How bad are Man United?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

I might be wrong here but the last time they were relegated the following season they averaged the biggest attendances in the country?

---

You are correct.

In 1973/74, Manchester United finished 21st of 22 in the old First Division and were relegated. Nevertheless, they topped the attendance charts that season with an average of 42,712.

In 1974/75, they won the Second Division championship. They were the best-supported side in the Football League with an average attendance of 48,387. First Division runners-up Liverpool were ranked with an average of 45,966.

In 1975/76, United finished third in the First Division and were comfortably the best-supported side in the Football League. They averaged 54,750, while champions Liverpool were ranked second with an average of 41,623.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68

I'm not sure they averaged the biggest home attendances that season. I'm sure Liverpool would have been higher than theirs was.

---

Man Utd's average (in the Second Division) was higher than Liverpool's average (in the First Division) by approximately 2,400. They were the best-supported side in the country.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

You are correct.

In 1973/74, Manchester United finished 21st of 22 in the old First Division and were relegated. Nevertheless, they topped the attendance charts that season with an average of 42,712.

In 1974/75, they won the Second Division championship. They were the best-supported side in the Football League with an average attendance of 48,387. First Division runners-up Liverpool were ranked with an average of 45,966.

In 1975/76, United finished third in the First Division and were comfortably the best-supported side in the Football League. They averaged 54,750, while champions Liverpool were ranked second with an average of 41,623.

---

Would I be right in assuming that United have generally always had bigger crowds than Liverpool simply because they have generally had a ground with a greater capacity?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Man Utd's average (in the Second Division) was higher than Liverpool's average (in the First Division) by approximately 2,400. They were the best-supported side in the country.

---

No surprise to me. United were a massive club for many, many years.

Out of interest, and only if you have the stats to hand, did Spurs attendance suffer because of relegation? Newcastle, for example, have been relegated a couple of times and their crowds have barely suffered.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Awful, it’s so easy for Liverpool - if they don’t get complacent, they could get five or six.

---

I don't think football was a high priority for the Manchester players, after the very sad news earlier in the day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Would I be right in assuming that United have generally always had bigger crowds than Liverpool simply because they have generally had a ground with a greater capacity?

---

I don't know, but I guess it depends what periods we're talking about. The side with the best average flip-flopped a few times in the 60's and 70's:

64/65 - Man Utd
65/66 - Liverpool
66/67 - Man Utd
67/68 - Man Utd
68/69 - Man Utd
69/70 - Man Utd
70/71 - Liverpool
71/72 - Liverpool
72/73 - Man Utd

Then it was United every year until:

87/88 - Liverpool
88/89 - Liverpool
89/90 - Man Utd
90/91 - Man Utd
91/92 - Man Utd
92/93 - Liverpool
93/94 - Man Utd

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Out of interest, and only if you have the stats to hand, did Spurs attendance suffer because of relegation? Newcastle, for example, have been relegated a couple of times and their crowds have barely suffered.

---

75/76 - Div 1 - 27,836
76/77 - Div 1 - 30,173 (relegated)
77/78 - Div 2 - 33,417 (promoted)
78/79 - Div 1 - 34,902

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I don't know, but I guess it depends what periods we're talking about. The side with the best average flip-flopped a few times in the 60's and 70's:

64/65 - Man Utd
65/66 - Liverpool
66/67 - Man Utd
67/68 - Man Utd
68/69 - Man Utd
69/70 - Man Utd
70/71 - Liverpool
71/72 - Liverpool
72/73 - Man Utd

Then it was United every year until:

87/88 - Liverpool
88/89 - Liverpool
89/90 - Man Utd
90/91 - Man Utd
91/92 - Man Utd
92/93 - Liverpool
93/94 - Man Utd

---

Thanks for that.

So Liverpool had a greater average attendance 6 times in 3 decades. With the capacity increases at Old Trafford and regular Premier League titles, I would be surprised if Liverpool have had a better average attendance than United since the mid 90s. We might be talking about a greater average attendance 6 times in 60 years.

It's quite something that, while Liverpool dominated so much in the 70s and 80s they didn't get bigger crowds than United. I can only presume that is due to the capacity of the stadium.

Good info, cheers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

75/76 - Div 1 - 27,836
76/77 - Div 1 - 30,173 (relegated)
77/78 - Div 2 - 33,417 (promoted)
78/79 - Div 1 - 34,902

---

Thanks

Sunderland attendances are still pretty impressive - 4th season in league one and they're averaging around 31k still

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

I don't know, but I guess it depends what periods we're talking about. The side with the best average flip-flopped a few times in the 60's and 70's:

64/65 - Man Utd
65/66 - Liverpool
66/67 - Man Utd
67/68 - Man Utd
68/69 - Man Utd
69/70 - Man Utd
70/71 - Liverpool
71/72 - Liverpool
72/73 - Man Utd

Then it was United every year until:

87/88 - Liverpool
88/89 - Liverpool
89/90 - Man Utd
90/91 - Man Utd
91/92 - Man Utd
92/93 - Liverpool
93/94 - Man Utd

---

They seem like glory hunting plastics?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

I don't think football was a high priority for the Manchester players, after the very sad news earlier in the day.

---

Yet their manager was scathing about the team’s performance- your suggestion would carry more weight if it wasn’t for performances like their recent one at Everton.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

75/76 - Div 1 - 27,836
76/77 - Div 1 - 30,173 (relegated)
77/78 - Div 2 - 33,417 (promoted)
78/79 - Div 1 - 34,902

---

Spurs’ average gates were in the mid twenty thousands for 73/74 and 74/75 as well, while Arsenal’s were around the thirty thousand mark in the same period. I often watch the Big Match revisited and there are frequently gaps on the terraces for games they showed at Highbury and White Hart Lane during that period.

The famous European nights at anfield often saw gates of 30 odd thousand , nowhere near capacity

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68

I'm not sure they averaged the biggest home atendances that season. I'm sure Liverpool would have been higher than theirs was.

There is a very good reason why the Utd game it home in August 1974 has reached mythical proportions. Here are two reviews of that game, both from the Man Utd perspective. In the 2nd paragraph of the first article the writer states:

Our supporters would descend on the rival town or city and take it over. Trains, coaches, cars from all over Britain would arrive throughout matchday. Rival fans were overawed. There would be exceptions, some rival supporters decided to stand in the way of this Red tide. Cardiff City on a bright, sunny August day in 1974 were the first.

https://strettynews.com/2013/11/24/t...-39-years-ago/

The second contains descriptions of characters that a few of our older fans may recognise:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/card...d-1974.158684/

---

I remember that game. There was a cartoon in a paper where the UN were policing the game.

Guess the writer get his order wrong here:

"This was Wales v England, glamour hooligans v frustrated plain Jane thugs"

and wanted to say they were the Fulham of trouble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Man Utd's average (in the Second Division) was higher than Liverpool's average (in the First Division) by approximately 2,400. They were the best-supported side in the country.

---

Thanks for that. It does surprise me that Man Utd in the old 2nd Division (despite the fact they went up as Champions if memory serves me well) had a higher average crowd than Liverpool's. who were doing well (does nothing ever change!) in the 1st division.

Just checked, Liverpool finished 2nd to Derby County, that season, 74/75

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68

Thanks for that. It does surprise me that Man Utd in the old 2nd Division (despite the fact they went up as Champions if memory serves me well) had a higher average crowd than Liverpool's. who were doing well (does nothing ever change!) in the 1st division.

Just checked, Liverpool finished 2nd to Derby County, that season, 74/75

---

United were getting 58000 whilst Liverpool were getting 39000 , even in the Liverpool glory years

I hate both of them and when they play each other I want both of them to lose

But United have always had bigger support . They say that if Liverpool built a 70000 stadium they would fill it but put 15000 more seats in old Trafford and they would get 90000 gates I am sure . Plastic gits the pair of them .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Yet their manager was scathing about the team’s performance- your suggestion would carry more weight if it wasn’t for performances like their recent one at Everton.

---

He was wrong to do that and Man Utd's inconsistencies have been there all season, and a long time before that. The only solution to their problems is a complete overhaul of the playing staff and the coaching team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

United were getting 58000 whilst Liverpool were getting 39000 , even in the Liverpool glory years

I hate both of them and when they play each other I want both of them to lose

But United have always had bigger support . They say that if Liverpool built a 70000 stadium they would fill it but put 15000 more seats in old Trafford and they would get 90000 gates I am sure . Plastic gits the pair of them .

---

I hate both of them too, with a passion. Have come across literally hundreds of Man Utd and Liverpool 'fans' over the years. None of the kents have ever come from greater Manchester or Merseyside. Muppets!!

I got to admit I enjoy Liverpool giving Man Ure a bit of a tonking the other night though. Let's hope this Den Haag bloke, or whatever he is called, can further diminish the club's reputation

Oh, and I do not want Liverpool to win another competition this season. Whoever they are up against I will be cheering on for the opposition

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr Soul '68

I hate both of them too, with a passion. Have come across literally hundreds of Man Utd and Liverpool 'fans' over the years. None of the kents have ever come from greater Manchester or Merseyside. Muppets!!

I got to admit I enjoy Liverpool giving Man Ure a bit of a tonking the other night though. Let's hope this Den Haag bloke, or whatever he is called, can further diminish the club's reputation

Oh, and I do not want Liverpool to win another competition this season. Whoever they are up against I will be cheering on for the opposition

---

My only dilemma with all of this is Man City - a club that has only burst onto the big stage because of mega wealthy owners. I'm quite happy with them losing every game as well.

Out of all the options, I have less of an issue with Liverpool winning an unprecedented quadruple. My dislike of Man Utd is far deeper than any of the others and for them to have to live with their biggest rivals being able to have that over them would be slightly amusing.

The correct answer to ‘How bad are Man Utd?’ Is ‘Not bad enough, yet’. I sincerely hope there is worse to come for them.

I quite like the fact that Man City are lording it over them now, regardless of them winning the lottery (as their fans describe it). They’ve stuck by Man City through some tough times, times when it must have been sickening to go to school/work on a Monday morning very often. Even going for a pint in a ‘mixed’ pub must have been torture and as for the other lot parading League & European trophies through the streets!!!! And the Citizens sticking it up Liverpool, hopefully, is a double whammy.

Man City have always been a big club alongside Wednesday , Sunderland , Newcastle etc

They don't have the plastic following of United and Liverpool but who would want those clowns ?

I always respected Man City. I still respect their fans. But they got the golden ticket. Just like Chelsea. Who's next?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NYCBlue

I always respected Man City. I still respect their fans. But they got the golden ticket. Just like Chelsea. Who's next?

---

Man City leave me cold - for a team packed full of stars and who play incredible football they're just a bit meh.
Theres just something boring about their clinical efficiency.

I think I'd rather see Chelsea and Man City fail than Liverpool and Man Utd these days

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rjk

Man City leave me cold - for a team packed full of stars and who play incredible football they're just a bit meh.
Theres just something boring about their clinical efficiency.

I think I'd rather see Chelsea and Man City fail than Liverpool and Man Utd these days

---

I agree with you. My post was badly worded, it should have said "I used to respect Man City". I still don't give Liverpool and especially Man Utd a pass. I can't really think of a team outside of the top 7 who I'd be happy to see win the league. In other news, I now want Everton to be relegated. It's probably the most exciting thing going on right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NYCBlue

I agree with you. My post was badly worded, it should have said "I used to respect Man City". I still don't give Liverpool and especially Man Utd a pass. I can't really think of a team outside of the top 7 who I'd be happy to see win the league. In other news, I now want Everton to be relegated. It's probably the most exciting thing going on right now.

---

yes everton going down would be hilarious

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rjk

yes everton going down would be hilarious

---

Agreed. Also it'll be interesting to see how Man City fare when Pep leaves

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by delmbox

Agreed. Also it'll be interesting to see how Man City fare when Pep leaves

---

Pep just said he wanted to stay "for life". It will interesting to see how many clubs are as rich as Man City when he leaves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NYCBlue

I agree with you. My post was badly worded, it should have said "I used to respect Man City". I still don't give Liverpool and especially Man Utd a pass. I can't really think of a team outside of the top 7 who I'd be happy to see win the league. In other news, I now want Everton to be relegated. It's probably the most exciting thing going on right now.

---

First time I have ever taken an interest in the prem league, unless of course, we have been there. Here's hoping Burnley can do it and stay up!!

I hate them all except Norwich, Burnley , Watford , Brentford , Leicester

The rest can all feck off and I love it when those clubs get one over on the big boys

Would love to see Everton go down and stay down . Its never going to happen to the likes of Liverpool but I am allowed to dream

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I hate them all except Norwich, Burnley , Watford , Brentford , Leicester

The rest can all feck off and I love it when those clubs get one over on the big boys

Would love to see Everton go down and stay down . Its never going to happen to the likes of Liverpool but I am allowed to dream

---

What about Southampton and Brighton?

Not big clubs but clubs City should look at and aspire to be?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

What about Southampton and Brighton?

Not big clubs but clubs City should look at and aspire to be?

---

Cardiff City are potentially bigger than both of those.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

Cardiff City are potentially bigger than both of those.

---

Hmmm...

Potentially maybe?

Historically, does it matter?

Currently, City are ****ing light years behind them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

What about Southampton and Brighton?

Not big clubs but clubs City should look at and aspire to be?

---

I forgot about them

Both bigger clubs than us

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Hmmm...

Potentially maybe?

Historically, does it matter?

Currently, City are ****ing light years behind them.

---

We are

And we are way behind that white nonsense up the road too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

We are

And we are way behind that white nonsense up the road too

---

True.

My aspirations for City are more akin to replicating Southampton or Brighton success, than those tramps in West Wales.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

True.

My aspirations for City are more akin to replicating Southampton or Brighton success, than those tramps in West Wales.

---

If we could establish ccfc as a top flight football team , managing to compete alongside Leicester, Brighton , Watford , Burnley , Fulham etc that would be a dream

But the best I think will happen is an occasional visit then relegation

Basically we are crap

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

If we could establish ccfc as a top flight football team , managing to compete alongside Leicester, Brighton , Watford , Burnley , Fulham etc that would be a dream

But the best I think will happen is an occasional visit then relegation

Basically we are crap

---

City shouldn't be though.

A bit of direction and real management off the field would've perhaps seen City on a par with the likes of Southampton, Leicester etc.

Missed opportunity now mind and it'll never get done with the current owner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

City shouldn't be though.

A bit of direction and real management off the field would've perhaps seen City on a par with the likes of Southampton, Leicester etc.

Missed opportunity now mind and it'll never get done with the current owner.

---

Potential is one thing , living up to it is another

We are less crap than we were but still crap

It makes me laugh when Everton fans get worked up

They havnt got a clue

2-0 down against Arse, Ronaldo pulls one back, same as it ever was.