Starmer will be investigated by Durham Police ( crazy why now )

The problem is if Boris resigned he could stand again and be re-elected, I'm not sure Kier would be that confident that he would. Boris only needs the majority of tory MPs to vote for him, I think the labour procedure is far less straight forward

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Originally Posted by DryCleaning

that is because you are left leaning and therefore you'll not have common ground with Johnson. You also ignore the crux of my point entirely. Johnson never criticises anyone else for their own perceived (lack of) moral compass, which means he doesn't leave himself exposed for the same kind of criticism Starmer now finds himself subject to. If you are going to claim the moral high ground, you really do need no skeletons in the closet.

I quite like Starmer, but if he is issued with a FPN, its going to be hard for him to remain in post.

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So, that’s the stage we’ve reached - a politician with no moral compass is regarded as a positive thing because he can’t be be criticised for hypocrisy :facepalm:

If Starmer resigns after a fixed penalty notice, there should not be any justification for Johnson remaining Prime Minister (there isn’t now anyway) - this has got nothing to do with party politics (I won’t be voting for Starmer’s party if he stays on after being fined) it’s about moral compasses

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So, that’s the stage we’ve reached - a politician with no moral compass is regarded as a positive thing because he can’t be be criticised for hypocrisy :facepalm:

If Starmer resigns after a fixed penalty notice, there should not be any justification for Johnson remaining Prime Minister (there isn’t now anyway) - this has got nothing to do with party politics (I won’t be voting for Starmer’s party if he stays on after being fined) it’s about moral compasses

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I'm pretty sure he will go if fined, his background as DPP and his previous stance make it impossible for him to stay. This then in turn makes Johnson a complete liability, brexit is the only thing keeping them polling in the 30s and the next labour leader would be less easily linked to 'remain'.

It's the shame for Starmer because I think the economy over the next few years is likely to make the election unwinnable for the party in government, especially if they continue to do practically nothing to help people.

Worth also remembering that a covid inquiry that demonstrates how much money was spent ineffectively will just serve to emphasise that the reason they couldn't heavily intervene to help people through the cost of living crisis was actually their own financial mismanagement and not an act of god as they would have everyone believe.

It’s being reported that Starmer will make a statement at four saying he will resign if fined.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

It’s being reported that Starmer will make a statement at four saying he will resign if fined.

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Tight decision, and I also view this as him having a bit more confidence in the way the investigation goes..

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Tight decision, and I also view this as him having a bit more confidence in the way the investigation goes..

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Really? just think he has some moral integrity unlike Johnson

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

So, that’s the stage we’ve reached - a politician with no moral compass is regarded as a positive thing because he can’t be be criticised for hypocrisy :facepalm:

If Starmer resigns after a fixed penalty notice, there should not be any justification for Johnson remaining Prime Minister (there isn’t now anyway) - this has got nothing to do with party politics (I won’t be voting for Starmer’s party if he stays on after being fined) it’s about moral compasses

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You've misunderstood. Johnson doesn't leave himself exposed, unlike Starmer, if the stories are true.

The post was more about Johnsons political acumen, which at this time appears greater than Starmer. Whilst Starmer has potentially shot himself in his foot, Johnson has not.

Again, the point wasn't about moral compass, because that's based on personal experience.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

It’s being reported that Starmer will make a statement at four saying he will resign if fined.

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I do wonder if Starmer resigns whether this will force Johnson and Sunak to reassess their own positions.

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Originally Posted by DryCleaning

You've misunderstood. Johnson doesn't leave himself exposed, unlike Starmer, if the stories are true.

The post was more about Johnsons political acumen, which at this time appears greater than Starmer. Whilst Starmer has potentially shot himself in his foot, Johnson has not.

Again, the point wasn't about moral compass, because that's based on personal experience.

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Johnson doesn't leave himself exposed?

When this first broke, he was saying he was just as furious as anyone else in the country at what had been going on, and was determined to get to the bottom of it. Later we found out he was at half of them.

The difference is not about digging a hole, it's that Johnson absolutely doesn't care. I guess you can call that political acumen if you like.

lets be honest here, its all a farce

but lets look at the scenario

a group of people all sit in the same room / office working ( which was in the rules if they felt they couldnt work from home )

the same group order a Indian takeaway and beer / wine , now they sit down with the same people as they have spent the day with and eat that curry and drink a beer or 2, this is now wrong

I know we had Covid rules for a purpose, but lets have some common sense, the above scenario shows it was a joke in some instances

now its happened to both party leaders, maybe its to put it to bed, Boris has apologised and isn't going to resign, Starmer can do the same and maybe both get on with doing the jobs they are paid to do

Correct decision and the right thing to announce.

Get fined - resign.

Just as the Bufoon and Sunak should have done.

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Originally Posted by blue matt

lets be honest here, its all a farce

but lets look at the scenario

a group of people all sit in the same room / office working ( which was in the rules if they felt they couldnt work from home )

the same group order a Indian takeaway and beer / wine , now they sit down with the same people as they have spent the day with and eat that curry and drink a beer or 2, this is now wrong

I know we had Covid rules for a purpose, but lets have some common sense, the above scenario shows it was a joke in some instances

now its happened to both party leaders, maybe its to put it to bed, Boris has apologised and isn't going to resign, Starmer can do the same and maybe both get on with doing the jobs they are paid to do

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It is getting more and more ridiculous. Why Starmer thinks that 'falling on his sword' will put pressure on BJ to do the same, is a mystery. Just let it happen, get fined, take the flack, and neither Starmer or BJ - or anyone close to them - will EVER raise the subject again !

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Originally Posted by blue matt

lets be honest here, its all a farce

but lets look at the scenario

a group of people all sit in the same room / office working ( which was in the rules if they felt they couldnt work from home )

the same group order a Indian takeaway and beer / wine , now they sit down with the same people as they have spent the day with and eat that curry and drink a beer or 2, this is now wrong

I know we had Covid rules for a purpose, but lets have some common sense, the above scenario shows it was a joke in some instances

now its happened to both party leaders, maybe its to put it to bed, Boris has apologised and isn't going to resign, Starmer can do the same and maybe both get on with doing the jobs they are paid to do

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We’ve just seen the difference between Johnson and Starmer. Still, I suppose it was the dull, boring thing to do - what a character “Boris” (registered trademark) is eh!

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

It is getting more and more ridiculous. Why Starmer thinks that 'falling on his sword' will put pressure on BJ to do the same, is a mystery. Just let it happen, get fined, take the flack, and neither Starmer or BJ - or anyone close to them - will EVER raise the subject again !

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Has Starmer said hes doing it to put pressure on Boris?

It is likely to be raised again. There could be more fines for Boris.

Starmer has done the right thing.

Why just let it happen and be fined.? My bet is he wont be fined.

If he is he goes and rightly so.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

We’ve just seen the difference between Johnson and Starmer. Still, I suppose it was the dull, boring thing to do - what a character “Boris” (registered trademark) is eh!

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You think Starmer has said this because of some sort of principle ? Maybe it's something to do with his digging a political hole for himself he could climb out of.

To add though. The tories know it will put pressure on Boris. Thats why we get the take the flak carry on blah blah blah.

Interesting months ahead.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Has Starmer said hes doing it to put pressure on Boris?

It is likely to be raised again. There could be more fines for Boris.

Starmer has done the right thing.

Why just let it happen and be fined.? My bet is he wont be fined.

If he is he goes and rightly so.

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It puts the police firmly in the spotlight. If they fine him, he goes, if they don't, then I bet questions will be asked 'why not' ?

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

You think Starmer has said this because of some sort of principle ? Maybe it's something to do with his digging a political hole for himself he could climb out of.

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I said earlier in this thread that I thought what he’s just done was right morally and tactically, so, yes, there is an element of party politics to it, but the contrast between both men (and Angela Rayner who has also said she’ll stand down if fined) has been put into stark clarity now.

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Originally Posted by lardy

Johnson doesn't leave himself exposed?

When this first broke, he was saying he was just as furious as anyone else in the country at what had been going on, and was determined to get to the bottom of it. Later we found out he was at half of them.

The difference is not about digging a hole, it's that Johnson absolutely doesn't care. I guess you can call that political acumen if you like.

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Yours is a valid point but not related to mine. For want of repeating myself I am saying Johnson does not criticise other politicians when they make mistakes - probably because he knows he's guilty of it himself somewhere along the line.

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Originally Posted by DryCleaning

Yours is a valid point but not related to mine. For want of repeating myself I am saying Johnson does not criticise other politicians when they make mistakes - probably because he knows he's guilty of it himself somewhere along the line.

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Doesnt mind throwing in Jimmy Saville comments though.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

It puts the police firmly in the spotlight. If they fine him, he goes, if they don't, then I bet questions will be asked 'why not' ?

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Durham police seem to have created a precedent with their line “Durham police has not taken retrospective action against any other person” in this piece (see “No further action - police policy” and the analysis under that).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...mmings-tell-us

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Durham police seem to have created a precedent with their line “Durham police has not taken retrospective action against any other person” in this piece (see “No further action - police policy” and the analysis under that).

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...mmings-tell-us

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That explains today's press conference statement and Angela's will will quit if we are found guilty knowing they wont ( another nod and wink moment from the old Durham police ?? )

Still doesn't explain why he has not stepped down as he asked Boris and others purely form being investigated ??

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Originally Posted by life on mars

That explains today's press conference statement and Angela's will will quit if we are found guilty knowing they wont ( another nod and wink moment from the old Durham police ?? )

Still doesn't explain why he has not stepped down as he asked Boris and others purely form being investigated ??

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Just adding some balance again I see.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

That explains today's press conference statement and Angela's will will quit if we are found guilty knowing they wont ( another nod and wink moment from the old Durham police ?? )

Still doesn't explain why he has not stepped down as he asked Boris and others purely form being investigated ??

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Probably as we all knew Boris was likely to be guilty and wed already seen photos of pissed up Tories not mentioning the Health Secretary having to quit.

All I what to know is.Did they have nann bread with the curry? It's not the same without it.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

That explains today's press conference statement and Angela's will will quit if we are found guilty knowing they wont ( another nod and wink moment from the old Durham police ?? )

Still doesn't explain why he has not stepped down as he asked Boris and others purely form being investigated ??

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Because we’d all seen the photos and the videos and we all knew Johnson and his cronies were continually pissing it up and partying, that’s why he said he should resign.

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Originally Posted by dandywarhol

All I what to know is.Did they have nann bread with the curry? It's not the same without it.

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I agree

I can do without the rice

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Originally Posted by ninian opinian

Because we’d all seen the photos and the videos and we all knew Johnson and his cronies were continually pissing it up and partying, that’s why he said he should resign.

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Whilst denying it had happened to Parliament

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

Whilst denying it had happened to Parliament

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Is that like the labour party denying clearly for months that Angela Rayner was there?
They said it was an honest mistake but that is clearly bullshit. Because she obviously knew she was there so if it was a 'mistake' why didn't she correct the mistake immediately instead of hiding behind it until she had no choice but to come clean?

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Is that like the labour party denying clearly for months that Angela Rayner was there?
They said it was an honest mistake but that is clearly bullshit. Because she obviously knew she was there so if it was a 'mistake' why didn't she correct the mistake immediately instead of hiding behind it until she had no choice but to come clean?

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They must have been well pissed to have missed our Angela in that room .

The other issue to consider which part of Labour was briefing against Labour in that room , as I'm pretty sure their wasn't any Tories at Beergate.

What a mess .

Thank god there's no other serious issues going on the world .

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

Is that like the labour party denying clearly for months that Angela Rayner was there?
They said it was an honest mistake but that is clearly bullshit. Because she obviously knew she was there so if it was a 'mistake' why didn't she correct the mistake immediately instead of hiding behind it until she had no choice but to come clean?

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'Clearly denying for months', I think they were asked twice if she was there before admitting they had ****ed up. She was the chair of party and head of campaigning, it isn't a massive surprise she was present for a huge by-election. I don't even know why it is relevant, does having her there make it a party?

Boris has been making new lies up to cover up old ones for over 6 months now.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

That explains today's press conference statement and Angela's will will quit if we are found guilty knowing they wont ( another nod and wink moment from the old Durham police ?? )

Still doesn't explain why he has not stepped down as he asked Boris and others purely form being investigated ??

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Tin foil hat is out. You seriously think the LOTO has more power over the police than the PM? Delusional.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

It is getting more and more ridiculous. Why Starmer thinks that 'falling on his sword' will put pressure on BJ to do the same, is a mystery. Just let it happen, get fined, take the flack, and neither Starmer or BJ - or anyone close to them - will EVER raise the subject again !

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I dont get it, I know Starmer / Labour will say its due to him being honourable etc etc

If they think by him going it will mean they can score points over the tories during the next decade they must be mad, as the whole scenario I listed it just crazy and as time goes on most will think that ( unless you are a member of CCMB )

but if the Labour Party thought he was the man to make the UK better ( and he could well be ) , then just apologise and move on, Give the guy a chance to make difference ( same goes for Raynor )

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Originally Posted by blue matt

I dont get it, I know Starmer / Labour will say its due to him being honourable etc etc

If they think by him going it will mean they can score points over the tories during the next decade they must be mad, as the whole scenario I listed it just crazy and as time goes on most will think that ( unless you are a member of CCMB )

but if the Labour Party thought he was the man to make the UK better ( and he could well be ) , then just apologise and move on, Give the guy a chance to make difference ( same goes for Raynor )

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There was a time when the moderators shipped any post with a whiff of political smell to the Politics Board, Guess they are on their hols!

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

There was a time when the moderators shipped any post with a whiff of political smell to the Politics Board, Guess they are on their hols!

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I do think it's better on here it allows all views and more contributions like or hate them.

Perhaps it's becoming more of a Libertarian messagboard ?

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Originally Posted by life on mars

I do think it's better on here it allows all views and more contributions like or hate them.

Perhaps it's becoming more of a Libertarian messagboard ?

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I sort of agree but I have no idea what a Libertarian messagboard looks like. It was more the inconsistency. I thought that's what moderators were there for. Every time I look for the moderation rules I end up in a dead end so I can't be sure whether your racist, misogynistic posts offend the Board's policy or not. That's the best thing about Libertarian messagboards I guess.

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Originally Posted by blue matt

I dont get it, I know Starmer / Labour will say its due to him being honourable etc etc

If they think by him going it will mean they can score points over the tories during the next decade they must be mad, as the whole scenario I listed it just crazy and as time goes on most will think that ( unless you are a member of CCMB )

but if the Labour Party thought he was the man to make the UK better ( and he could well be ) , then just apologise and move on, Give the guy a chance to make difference ( same goes for Raynor )

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Why apologise? He says hes done no wrong.

If thats found not to be true he should resign and he said he will.

Honourable not sure if thats the right word but definitely if fined the right thing to do.

Im pretty certain hes not getting fined though.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

You do know Starmer has come from working class roots? His mother a nurse and his father a factory worker?

I don’t support him but calling him posh is doing him a disservice

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I think if you check you'll find that the factory he worked in was in fact owned by Mr Starmer.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

'Clearly denying for months', I think they were asked twice if she was there before admitting they had ****ed up. She was the chair of party and head of campaigning, it isn't a massive surprise she was present for a huge by-election. I don't even know why it is relevant, does having her there make it a party?

Boris has been making new lies up to cover up old ones for over 6 months now.

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OK you're right. I would have expected her to be there but she could have corrected the 'Honest mistake' immediately it was made. She chose not to which then turned it from an honest mistake to what some would see as an attempt to hide something. If she was so convinced nothing was wrong she should have out her hand up. The fact that she didn't raises questions about her integrity.

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Originally Posted by xsnaggle

I think if you check you'll find that the factory he worked in was in fact owned by Mr Starmer.

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Source?