**** the Jubilee

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Originally Posted by dandywarhol

I just don't understand why we have to an English "Prince of Wales".
Poor old Charlie Boy must be the oldest apprentice on the planet.

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I don't think the dutchess of York is from York either.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

I don't think the dutchess of York is from York either.

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She must be from the Netherlands

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Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK

If only Henry the 8th had that same attribute :hehe:

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:hehe:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

So does Mickey Mouse but that's no reason for him to be Head of State.

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One of the arguments of course being that having the Queen prevents the election of a mickey mouse figure as head of state..

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Originally Posted by tforturton

I'm not a raving monarchist, but I do think the monarchy is something to be proud of. Generally speaking, constitutional monarchies are pretty good examples of government - think Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Japan, Holland, Canada, Australia, etc. That's not to say that having a president instead isn't a good move, it's just we choose not to. And it brings in the tourists.
It's not like the Queen throws her weight around or anything.

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I have never been at all convinced that they do bring in tourists, all the numbers around that are extremely ropey.

how many tourists actually see one of the royal family?
what they come for is the history and OUR palaces, which they would have much better access to if there wasn't a family of freeloaders living in them.
there are clear comparisons with other European countries in this respect.
things like the changing of the guard etc tourists come to see, but there's no reason that would have to stop, and if the tourists could actually see inside Buckingham palace afterwards then I'd imagine a fair few more would probably come.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

I have never been at all convinced that they do bring in tourists, all the numbers around that are extremely ropey.

how many tourists actually see one of the royal family?
what they come for is the history and OUR palaces, which they would have much better access to if there wasn't a family of freeloaders living in them.
there are clear comparisons with other European countries in this respect.
things like the changing of the guard etc tourists come to see, but there's no reason that would have to stop, and if the tourists could actually see inside Buckingham palace afterwards then I'd imagine a fair few more would probably come.

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I like that idea 👍

I think having an active royal family, as opposed to an ex royal family does bring in tourists; it makes it a historic as well as contemporary issue. The sheer numbers of global tourists milling around outside Buckingham Palace on any summer day is testament to that. Needless to say, there is no way to assess this and it's a fair point on opening up more buildings, something I do agree with.

I think the main benefit in terms of foreign affairs is the soft power and general respect it brings the country. Although many countries may not want to adopt the model themselves, there is an aura about them which does carry weight abroad. The Queen is one of the few people on earth whom no country would seek to insult and whom the vast majority will have general respect for.

If the Royals had any real power on domestic policy, I would be a raving republican, but they don't, so I'm not. I just don't see the big issue. President Blair? President Teresa May? These are the realistic alternatives and neither are exciting or offer much for me.

The biggest ongoing democratic issue in the UK is not the Royal Family, but the House of Lords

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think having an active royal family, as opposed to an ex royal family does bring in tourists; it makes it a historic as well as contemporary issue. The sheer numbers of global tourists milling around outside Buckingham Palace on any summer day is testament to that. Needless to say, there is no way to assess this and it's a fair point on opening up more buildings, something I do agree with.

I think the main benefit in terms of foreign affairs is the soft power and general respect it brings the country. Although many countries may not want to adopt the model themselves, there is an aura about them which does carry weight abroad. The Queen is one of the few people on earth whom no country would seek to insult and whom the vast majority will have general respect for.

If the Royals had any real power on domestic policy, I would be a raving republican, but they don't, so I'm not. I just don't see the big issue. President Blair? President Teresa May? These are the realistic alternatives and neither are exciting or offer much for me.

The biggest ongoing democratic issue in the UK is not the Royal Family, but the House of Lords

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a president doesn't need to have any actual power, there are plenty of examples where they don't Switzerland or Ireland for example is a ceremonial role.
in Switzerland they have a new one every year

**** the Royals

I’ll gladly enjoy the long weekend though

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

**** the Royals

I’ll gladly enjoy the long weekend though

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that's the spirit :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

I don't think the dutchess of York is from York either.

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It's Duchess, with a capital D. Show some respect.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

It's Duchess, with a capital D. Show some respect.

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why?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think having an active royal family, as opposed to an ex royal family does bring in tourists; it makes it a historic as well as contemporary issue. The sheer numbers of global tourists milling around outside Buckingham Palace on any summer day is testament to that. Needless to say, there is no way to assess this and it's a fair point on opening up more buildings, something I do agree with.

I think the main benefit in terms of foreign affairs is the soft power and general respect it brings the country. Although many countries may not want to adopt the model themselves, there is an aura about them which does carry weight abroad. The Queen is one of the few people on earth whom no country would seek to insult and whom the vast majority will have general respect for.

If the Royals had any real power on domestic policy, I would be a raving republican, but they don't, so I'm not. I just don't see the big issue. President Blair? President Teresa May? These are the realistic alternatives and neither are exciting or offer much for me.

The biggest ongoing democratic issue in the UK is not the Royal Family, but the House of Lords

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1. The old tourist chestnut yet again. Having a Head of State to bring in the tourists seems mighty weird to me.
2. Presidents need not be the leaders of the political party in government e.g. Germany.

So far, all I can gather is that next week the nation will be celebrating a fabricated reason for tourism and that people in other countries like something of ours, which is kind of ironic given our recent attitude to all things foreign.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

If the Royals had any real power on domestic policy, I would be a raving republican, but they don't, so I'm not.

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There have been accusations that they stick their oar in when it suits them.

Lady Diana was probably a nice enough lady but she didn't do a lot for me , horn wise

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

1. The old tourist chestnut yet again. Having a Head of State to bring in the tourists seems mighty weird to me.
2. Presidents need not be the leaders of the political party in government e.g. Germany.

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In any case Versailles seems to do very well for tourists still. Tourists don't come to meet the royals but they do like the buildings, artwork, history etc. We can keep all that stuff.

https://twitter.com/RepublicStaff/st...UX8fsGfXQ&s=19

why is this view never represented in any of the media

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Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays

There have been accusations that they stick their oar in when it suits them.

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Prince Andrew being prime culprit.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Lady Diana was probably a nice enough lady but she didn't do a lot for me , horn wise

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Imagine she took off her twin set and perls and changed into a rock chick like Sandy at the end of Grease .

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Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays

So far, all I can gather is that next week the nation will be celebrating a fabricated reason for tourism and that people in other countries like something of ours, which is kind of ironic given our recent attitude to all things foreign.

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One is immigration that in some cases costs ( not all ) one is tourism that provides value

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Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays

So far, all I can gather is that next week the nation will be celebrating a fabricated reason for tourism and that people in other countries like something of ours, which is kind of ironic given our recent attitude to all things foreign.

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:hehe: fair play, that made me laugh

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Originally Posted by insider

Imagine she took off her twin set and perls and changed into a rock chick like Sandy at the end of Grease .

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Olivia Newton John at the end of grease .....yes please

Lady Di....no thanks

She was gutted when she heard the news

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

1. The old tourist chestnut yet again. Having a Head of State to bring in the tourists seems mighty weird to me.
2. Presidents need not be the leaders of the political party in government e.g. Germany.

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1 - Yes, but you know it is different. How many Germans would recognise our queen vs how many Brits recognise (checks notes) Frank Walter-Steinmeier?

2 - I know. But what more does he bring to German society vs our head of state?

The weak argument that the Royal don't bring money in is absurd , its fine if you don't like them or anything British but lets not get away for the fact that the majority of people care for the Royals and its history celebrate and honour them , hey the USA has Royalty in Clintons' Bush's , Kennedys , even Disneyland / Elvis , USA folk don't ask for that to be got rid off the feckers even the poor soles like them .

The difference in my humble view other countries have more pride to their heritage , no matter what has gone in the past , we ( well ) the Wales and Scotland's Socialist enclaves walk around with a massive ooooh he's richer than me chip on the shoulder , ooooh fecking Ingerlund chip on the shoulder .

And lets be honest without the past efforts of the British Empire , Royals , Tories , Labour , Liberals we would all be very poor as a nation not the sixth-largest national economy in the world, which is incredible for an island of our size , I sometimes find it really tough to absorb that fact when looking at a map of the world .

Some just sit and moan , yes some have more , some less , however all including the moaners have sucked on that very success nipple and decisions made mainly sadly mostly by the Tories , who I think like the Royals are one of the oldest political party in the United Kingdom and arguably the world.

No I'm not a voter of them , due to the heavily weighted indoctrinated hate everything Welsh Socialism views , if you have another view your a right wing , royalist , bloated gammon faced kent .

Before the usual CCMB keyboarders insult me again no I'm not afraid to say or type or upset the crowd by saying I like a Tory policy , a Royal or MP's like such as Teressa May . Ben Wallace , Sajid Javid , along with great Liberals and Labour MP's like Harman , Hilary Benn, Paddy Ashdown , Robin Cooke , and the wonderful Mo Mowlam?


P.M.A.

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Originally Posted by life on mars

The weak argument that the Royal don't bring money in is absurd , its fine if you don't like them or anything British but lets not get away for the fact that the majority of people care for the Royals and its history celebrate and honour them , hey the USA has Royalty in Clintons' Bush's , Kennedys , even Disneyland / Elvis , USA folk don't ask for that to be got rid off the feckers even the poor soles like them .

The difference in my humble view other countries have more pride to their heritage , no matter what has gone in the past , we ( well ) the Wales and Scotland's Socialist enclaves walk around with a massive ooooh he's richer than me chip on the shoulder , ooooh fecking Ingerlund chip on the shoulder .

And lets be honest without the past efforts of the British Empire , Royals , Tories , Labour , Liberals we would all be very poor as a nation not the sixth-largest national economy in the world, which is incredible for an island of our size , I sometimes find it really tough to absorb that fact when looking at a map of the world .

Some just sit and moan , yes some have more , some less , however all including the moaners have sucked on that very success nipple and decisions made mainly sadly mostly by the Tories , who I think like the Royals are one of the oldest political party in the United Kingdom and arguably the world.

No I'm not a voter of them , due to the heavily weighted indoctrinated hate everything Welsh Socialism views , if you have another view your a right wing , royalist , bloated gammon faced kent .

Before the usual CCMB keyboarders insult me again no I'm not afraid to say or type or upset the crowd by saying I like a Tory policy , a Royal or MP's like such as Teressa May . Ben Wallace , Sajid Javid , along with great Liberals and Labour MP's like Harman , Hilary Benn, Paddy Ashdown , Robin Cooke , and the wonderful Mo Mowlam?


P.M.A.

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a poll by yougov this week showed that the majority of Britons aren't interested in the jubilee.

open any newspaper, or turn on any TV or radio and you'd think that we were a nation of sycophantic royalists, proudly waving our union flags.

the royals days are numbered though. once the current queen dies I think public opinion will rapidly solidify against them

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Originally Posted by life on mars

One is immigration that in some cases costs ( not all ) one is tourism that provides value

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It was more about respect from abroad, rather than immigration, and other nations' institutions liking our institutions. Maybe they like the thought of having a crown and living in a castle.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

a poll by yougov this week showed that the majority of Britons aren't interested in the jubilee.

open any newspaper, or turn on any TV or radio and you'd think that we were a nation of sycophantic royalists, proudly waving our union flags.

the royals days are numbered though. once the current queen dies I think public opinion will rapidly solidify against them

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Would you? I wouldn't. I would get the impression the head of state is about to turn 70 years on the throne, most respect that, some hate it, most are looking forward to an extended bank holiday, some are wildly excited, some are loudly saying how much they hate the royals.

Again, you are just repeating that you hate the jubilee. If so, just ignore it and let others enjoy the kids dressing up / street parties / day off work / piss up or whatever else it is.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

1 - Yes, but you know it is different. How many Germans would recognise our queen vs how many Brits recognise (checks notes) Frank Walter-Steinmeier?

2 - I know. But what more does he bring to German society vs our head of state?

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The German Head of State is elected and not given the post by dint of the bed he is born in. No-one has to swear allegiance to him in order to take his seat in parliament and he is not part of the etsablishment in the same way that the Queen is. He is not semi-worshipped and people do not need to fawn to him in a infantilistic state. He is part of a mature democracy and not the remnant of a feudal system with its honours systems et al. He will not occupy the post until he sheds his mortal coil. He does not dole out baubles in the name of the former German Empire. He is not the Head of the Church in Germany. People do not sing his name in the German National Anthem etc etc.
All healthier stuff in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

1. Why does the recognition of a Head of State matter that much?
2. The German Head of State is elected and not given the post by dint of the bed he is born in. No-one has to swear allegiance to him in order to take his seat in parliament and he is not part of the etsablishment in the same way that the Queen is. He is not semi-worshipped and people do not need to fawn to him in a infantilistic state. He is part of a mature democracy and not the remnant of a feudal system with its honours systems et al. He will not occupy the post until he sheds his mortal coil. He does not dole out baubles in the name of the former German Empire etc etc.

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1 - It doesn't. It's not me arguing to change the status quo
2 - No he doesn't, but a lot of that is mere tradition and ceremony, there no real demonstrable harm in it. If the Queen had real power then there would be. The German president isn't elected by the people either btw.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

It's Duchess, with a capital D. Show some respect.

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Aaahhh that's why it didn't auto capitalise

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Would you? I wouldn't. I would get the impression the head of state is about to turn 70 years on the throne, most respect that, some hate it, most are looking forward to an extended bank holiday, some are wildly excited, some are loudly saying how much they hate the royals.

Again, you are just repeating that you hate the jubilee. If so, just ignore it and let others enjoy the kids dressing up / street parties / day off work / piss up or whatever else it is.

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Every single day the daily mail has at least 5 stories on the royals, if the queen so much as farts she's on the news.

I think you're missing the point, it's not that people hate the jubilee, it's people who hate the idea of a royal family as they're given millions if not billions for just being born.

Give me a couple of billion and I reckon I could make a theme park that brings in more money..

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

1 - It doesn't. It's not me arguing to change the status quo
2 - No he doesn't, but a lot of that is mere tradition and ceremony, there no real demonstrable harm in it. If the Queen had real power then there would be.

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I have listed in a previous message a number of factors that I consider unhealthy regarding the feudalistic concept of royalty in a modern democracy.

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Every single day the daily mail has at least 5 stories on the royals, if the queen so much as farts she's on the news.

I think you're missing the point, it's not that people hate the jubilee, it's people who hate the idea of a royal family as they're given millions if not billions for just being born.

Give me a couple of billion and I reckon I could make a theme park that brings in more money..

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No I completely understand the argument for Britain becoming a republic. I could write a long essay outlining all the points and would agree with many of them myself. That however is different to saying '**** the Jubilee' that entails kids dressing up in school, communities coming together, street parties, days off work, people getting pissed together, a boost for pubs and restaurants etc.

A calm rational argument for Britain becoming a republic is great. Pissing on a social event many are looking forward to because politically it doesn't suit your agenda is something else.

The reality is there are a great many social events in this country, some mean a lot to people, some don't, but there is no reason to go around saying 'F**k this event' or 'F**k that event' in my opinion.

I forgot to say that no-one is obliged to unilaterally bow down or curtsey to the German president.

And he has not spawed a German Nicholas Witchell....

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

No I completely understand the argument for Britain becoming a republic. I could write a long essay outlining all the points and would agree with many of them myself. That however is different to saying '**** the Jubilee' that entails kids dressing up in school, communities coming together, street parties, days off work, people getting pissed together, a boost for pubs and restaurants etc.

A calm rational argument for Britain becoming a republic is great. Pissing on a social event many are looking forward to because politically it doesn't suit your agenda is something else.

The reality is there are a great many social events in this country, some mean a lot to people, some don't, but there is no reason to go around saying 'F**k this event' or 'F**k that event' in my opinion.

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**** JamesWales

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

I forgot to say that no-one is obliged to unilaterally bow down or curtsey to the German president.

And he has not spawed a German Nicholas Witchell....

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This is the best argument I've yet heard on it all..

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

**** JamesWales

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You wish.

What about turning the firm into a ltd. company, list the family as assets and sell them to some far east investor.
it works with football clubs. So those of us who aren't in favour can't complain about funding them but those who do like them still have them milling about the place, interfering and assaulting from time to time.
I'm sure they'd be more appealing than Newcastle united and a 'shady history' of an investor won't matter so much with these.
Still get to keep the bank holidays then too.
i suppose 'worst case' they do a wimbledon and ship them off but its a risk im willing to take

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

The reality is there are a great many social events in this country, some mean a lot to people, some don't, but there is no reason to go around saying 'F**k this event' or 'F**k that event' in my opinion.

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Could you name one with the same kind of cultural resonance, that's paid for by the country? Mind you, this is not just about "the event" of course, it's about the centuries old saga that is drummed into us as normal and will be again next week on a national scale, but Rjk understandably went for brevity.