Mick Lynch RMT Gen Sec

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Originally Posted by Pearcey3

Big deal. These pay rises are peanuts. That doesn’t make people on a minimum wage much better off at all. They remain on very basic wages and in many cases still reliant on food banks.
Would you be comfortably off working for £9:50 an hour? Do you think anyone can live comfortably off that? How can they afford a mortgage on these kind of figures?

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Pearcey, you should know that once James Wales has spoken on a subject, that’s an end to a discussion because his opinions are actually facts - in his head anyway. He commanded me to start a thread on Wednesday :hehe:

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Originally Posted by + the native hipster

of course young people are worse off than their parents , here you go 16yr old a £200,000 job

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Wtf are you wittering on about? I meant that, when wages and cost of living is taken into account, mortgages etc, young people are worse off than their parents were at their age in comparable terms.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's also proved that the very lowest paid have had rises twice the rate of inflation, which is the opposite of what you said yesterday.

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And you're more interested in trying to be right than the actual plight of people on low wages. Knob.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

And you're more interested in trying to be right than the actual plight of people on low wages. Knob.

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Nothing gives odd people satisfaction more than trying to win an internet argument.

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Originally Posted by Its been emotional

They all harp on about democracy but are shite scared to speak out or even say the truth or the clown will get rid of them in a heart beat
It's been refreshing to see Mick Lynch time after time call out and make whoever has been trust in front of him look complete and utter idiots whether it's the so called media elite Kay Burley, Piers Morgan etc or any of the Tory lap dogs who like said above all look bewildered and totally out of their depth.

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I didn't watch the Kay Burley clip, but the Piers Morgan one was ridiculous, you could see he was actually embarrassed for Morgan that he has come to this.

Didn't think he gave a very good account of himself.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Pearcey, you should know that once James Wales has spoken on a subject, that’s an end to a discussion because his opinions are actually facts - in his head anyway. He commanded me to start a thread on Wednesday :hehe:

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Interesting take TOBW, and a little ironic given the topic being discussed there, which was a fact vs an opinion.

Have a nice day. (Thats not a commandment either, merely a wish)

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Why is the past relevant at all? Right now, is somebody able to live off minimum wage no matter where they live in the UK.

My guess is that a single male on minimum wage living in my area would be completely ****ed.

Is that good? Is it worth performing mental and statistical gymnastics every night on a Cardiff message board to stick up for that situation?

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It's relevent because someone on here said all the lowest paid are worse off in the last 10 years in terms of wages v inflation, and that isn't true in terms of the minimum wage. Surely, facts matter?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's relevent because someone on here said all the lowest paid are worse off in the last 10 years in terms of wages v inflation, and that isn't true in terms of the minimum wage. Surely, facts matter?

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It could very easily be true, as the facts you have quoted don't tell the whole story.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

It could very easily be true, as the facts you have quoted don't tell the whole story.

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No they don't, but saying 'none of the lowest paid' are better off after inflation is wrong. I don't see the issue in providing data to challenge it. I'm the first to admit there is a great wealth of statistics to look at, but if you are supportive of the minimum wage, then presumably you view it as a good thing that it has risen at twice the rate of inflation in the last 10 years, no?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Here you go.

Well, sorry to bring some facts to the table, but the minimum wage was £6.19 in 2012. It's £9.50 now. Thats an increase of 53%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation..._Wage_Act_1998

We can add a little from the last few months, but Inflation from 2012 to 2021 was 25%.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/mone...ion-calculator

No one disputes the global financial crisis, then a pandemic then a war in Europe don't impact on things. They do. It's been fkn tough, but the solution isn't to give everyone 10% more money. You may want to support the union on ideological ground but you know that in your heart it isn't the answer for the country as a whole.

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Work is a ladder, most people have to start at the bottom, if it's £9.50 per hour or £10.00 you shouldn't matter, you should be thinking it's the bottom step, what can I do to earn more, not facking tories give me a 20% rise, whats happened to ambition?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

No they don't, but saying 'none of the lowest paid' are better off after inflation is wrong. I don't see the issue in providing data to challenge it. I'm the first to admit there is a great wealth of statistics to look at, but if you are supportive of the minimum wage, then presumably you view it as a good thing that it has risen at twice the rate of inflation in the last 10 years, no?

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JW, I totally agree with you. Unfortunately the vast majority of posters on here are leftist, anti Tory, deluded brainwashed Labour voters. Hence we all always have a Labour Govt in Wales..... Now that really is a worry!

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Originally Posted by Talksport

JW, I totally agree with you. Unfortunately the vast majority of posters on here are leftist, anti Tory, deluded brainwashed Labour voters. Hence we all always have a Labour Govt in Wales..... Now that really is a worry!

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And the other side there are right wing deluded brainwashed Tory supporters and why we have a Tory Govt. 😂😂😂

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Work is a ladder, most people have to start at the bottom, if it's £9.50 per hour or £10.00 you shouldn't matter, you should be thinking it's the bottom step, what can I do to earn more, not facking tories give me a 20% rise, whats happened to ambition?

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Just give pay increases based on inflation

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Originally Posted by Talksport

JW, I totally agree with you. Unfortunately the vast majority of posters on here are leftist, anti Tory, deluded brainwashed Labour voters. Hence we all always have a Labour Govt in Wales..... Now that really is a worry!

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We've never had it so good look we are top of the table we have the most!

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/h...n-nhs-24301231

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Just give pay increases based on inflation

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In a ideal World, the problem is it would add to inflation and drag the problem on longer, we need the country to dig deep and grind through the next two years, we've had to do it before and we will have to do it at certain times in the future.

All Drakeford should be concentrating on is this, it's peoples lives, forget speed gimmicks, free prescrptions, longest covid restrictions in the World and all the party politics, get these numbers down, do whatever it takes!

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/h...n-nhs-24301231

NHS Wales waiting times: Two years growth and new record

Waiting times for hospital treatment in Wales have again reached record levels, latest monthly figures show.

They reveal two years of solid growth since the Covid pandemic began.

But the longest waits - those of more than two years - are starting to go down, although 68,000 are still waiting that long.

The figures for April show more than 707,000 patients were waiting for hospital treatment, although the rate of increase has slowed.

Emergency waiting times nearly worst ever
More cash wanted to help older people manage pain
Wales' top doctor not ruling out future lockdowns
'I spent four nights in A&E waiting for a bed'


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61908285

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

All Drakeford should be concentrating on is this, it's peoples lives, forget speed gimmicks, free prescrptions, longest covid restrictions in the World and all the party politics, get these numbers down, do whatever it takes!

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/h...n-nhs-24301231

NHS Wales waiting times: Two years growth and new record

Waiting times for hospital treatment in Wales have again reached record levels, latest monthly figures show.

They reveal two years of solid growth since the Covid pandemic began.

But the longest waits - those of more than two years - are starting to go down, although 68,000 are still waiting that long.

The figures for April show more than 707,000 patients were waiting for hospital treatment, although the rate of increase has slowed.

Emergency waiting times nearly worst ever
More cash wanted to help older people manage pain
Wales' top doctor not ruling out future lockdowns
'I spent four nights in A&E waiting for a bed'


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-61908285

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What does this have to do with a thread about Mick Lynch?

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

In a ideal World, the problem is it would add to inflation and drag the problem on longer, we need the country to dig deep and grind through the next two years, we've had to do it before and we will have to do it at certain times in the future.

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More billionaires than ever richer than ever, but it's the poor who had to dig deep, right.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Work is a ladder, most people have to start at the bottom, if it's £9.50 per hour or £10.00 you shouldn't matter, you should be thinking it's the bottom step, what can I do to earn more, not facking tories give me a 20% rise, whats happened to ambition?

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Erm no. If 9.50 per hours means you are not able to afford basic living costs then you are happily condemning a shit load of people to poverty.

The aim of the minimum wage should be to ensure basic living costs can be covered by somebody in full time employment, not some Dickensian tool to motivate the lazy.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Erm no. If 9.50 per hours means you are not able to afford basic living costs then you are happily condemning a shit load of people to poverty.

The aim of the minimum wage should be to ensure basic living costs can be covered by somebody in full time employment, not some Dickensian tool to motivate the lazy.

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yes, and in my opinion the minimum wage should be enough to live off without any additional benefits.

As it is we have ended up in a situation that businesses pay so little that the poorest have to rely on handouts from the government and charities in order to survive, and those at the top have bigger and bigger pay.

Why do we allow this?
You can work your guts out in a full time job in this country and still struggle to make ends meet

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Erm no. If 9.50 per hours means you are not able to afford basic living costs then you are happily condemning a shit load of people to poverty.

The aim of the minimum wage should be to ensure basic living costs can be covered by somebody in full time employment, not some Dickensian tool to motivate the lazy.

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There should be additional help for housing and working tax etc for people who need it, but people need to want to help themselves and move to a better paid job, it is only considered as a stepping stone to a decent wage.

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Originally Posted by Rjk

yes, and in my opinion the minimum wage should be enough to live off without any additional benefits.

As it is we have ended up in a situation that businesses pay so little that the poorest have to rely on handouts from the government and charities in order to survive, and those at the top have bigger and bigger pay.

Why do we allow this?
You can work your guts out in a full time job in this country and still struggle to make ends meet

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Why would you pick and stay in a job like that?

There is google these days, type in what jobs pay what, and try not to pick one that pays minimum wage?

Train drivers and Lorry drivers pay quite a bit, aim for something like that as a mininum if you're educated consider alternatives, there are plenty of well paid jobs and plenty of badly paid jobs ?

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Why would you pick and stay in a job like that?

There is google these days, type in what jobs pay what, and try not to pick one that pays minimum wage?

Train drivers and Lorry drivers pay quite a bit, aim for something like that as a mininum if you're educated consider alternatives, there are plenty of well paid jobs and plenty of badly paid jobs ?

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Yes and there always will be and should be (based on skills/demand/supply etc.), but none of them should pay a full time employee less than it costs to live.

I don't understand how people have been convinced that it is out of reach for one of the wealthiest countries in the world to ensure people in full time work earn enough to live.

It isn't to any of our benefits not to do this btw, I would stake a lot that there isn't anybody on this board who benefits from rampant wealth inequality and an oligarchical government ensuring that the very wealthy minority are continually protected. So why do people cheerlead for it?

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Why would you pick and stay in a job like that?

There is google these days, type in what jobs pay what, and try not to pick one that pays minimum wage?

Train drivers and Lorry drivers pay quite a bit, aim for something like that as a mininum if you're educated consider alternatives, there are plenty of well paid jobs and plenty of badly paid jobs ?

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You've nailed it. Why the **** haven't poorly paid people thought of just getting a better paid job in order to alleviate their problems? It's baffling!

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

You've nailed it. Why the **** haven't poorly paid people thought of just getting a better paid job in order to alleviate their problems? It's baffling!

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Just get a better job, it's simple :hehe:

Also, who is going to do those jobs?

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Have you been completely asleep during 2010s and completely unaware of life for young working people now?

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Its always been this way for young people. This generation is not special.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Just get a better job, it's simple :hehe:

Also, who is going to do those jobs?

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Some kind of freedom of movement to make it easier for citizens of other countries to come and work?

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Just get a better job, it's simple :hehe:

Also, who is going to do those jobs?

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For some people it is that simple!

Some of the track workers will think, great use the drones to check the tracks give me the redundancy, I'll train to be a Lorry driver and keep some of the money for back up cash, earn more money and jobs a good one!

Others will stay on strike as long as possible keep asking for more cash to stay in the comfort zone.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Well someone said no one was better off, to which I proved that the minimum wage rises in the last decade have gone up twice as fast as inflation.

If only you lot could eliminate economic facts and anyone with different opinions, then finally you would be happy! :hehe:

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whilst it is true that the minimum wage has outpaced inflation, and the nil rate band has also increased considerably, the single biggest cost that most people face will be housing. Given house prices rise on average about 10% per annum, we shouldn't crack open the champagne just yet, given many people are finding it more difficult to get on the housing ladder.

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Originally Posted by Doucas

Nah you're talking rubbish. When has housing, gas and electric and petrol been this expensive? Millenials currently have around 7% of wealth compared to 22% boomers had at the same age (https://fortune.com/2022/03/22/mille...llion-boomers/).

Your generation just deny deny and deny that there are any issues and then act shocked when people begin to strike.

I honestly think lead paint has ****ed your heads.

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This is the problem with statistics, taken on their own they don't tell the whole story. When boomers were in their 20s, the average life expectancy was considerably less than it is now. As most unfettered homeownership occurs in your 50s and beyond, its true to say that as people live longer, the nations wealth is going to decrease for any age group year on year. Whether the drop from 22% to 7% can be accounted for this alone, I doubt.

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Originally Posted by DryCleaning

whilst it is true that the minimum wage has outpaced inflation, and the nil rate band has also increased considerably, the single biggest cost that most people face will be housing. Given house prices rise on average about 10% per annum, we shouldn't crack open the champagne just yet, given many people are finding it more difficult to get on the housing ladder.

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True thats the biggest problem for the young, they can still buy a house, but its very difficult and they need a decent wage so it's very hard. House prices should fall this year or next, hopefully that will help a few more to be able to buy their own homes.

I think Landlords buying power has pushed prices beyond the average youngster, there needs to be some carrot or threat of a stick to persaude landlords to reduce portfolios so youngsters can buy rather rent which is dead money.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

That's not the point people are making though. The major expense in anybody's life is shelter and that is rampantly out of control, it wasn't back then. It would make a huge difference to me if my rent was even a quarter cheaper, it won't ever happen because the government has to protect house prices like they are it's firstborn.

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It is only in the past 12 years that interest rates have been as low as they are. Interest rates historically were around 7-10%, on occasions rising to 15%. It is accepted that housing is the single biggest cost, so I can't see how interest rates being a fraction of what they were back then has made the situation as bad today as you are alluding to.

You need to move away from the Thatcherite policy of homeownership that you favour. Whilst home ownership is nice to have, take a leaf out of our continental cousin's playbook where renting is so much more the norm.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's relevent because someone on here said all the lowest paid are worse off in the last 10 years in terms of wages v inflation, and that isn't true in terms of the minimum wage. Surely, facts matter?

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Of course, but you're being very selective with the facts you choose to use.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

For some people it is that simple!

Some of the track workers will think, great use the drones to check the tracks give me the redundancy, I'll train to be a Lorry driver and keep some of the money for back up cash, earn more money and jobs a good one!

Others will stay on strike as long as possible keep asking for more cash to stay in the comfort zone.

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In the main, it isn't though. And that's why they're striking. And it is why teachers, nurses, doctors etc will be next.

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Originally Posted by DryCleaning

Its always been this way for young people. This generation is not special.

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Youth unemployment is much higher than other generations. It's also incredibly expensive to go to uni. Apprenticeships basically don't exist so you can't learn a trade and if you get a good paying job, house prices have grown so far out of line with wages, it's incredibly difficult to buy a house. Apart from that, young people have it great.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

There should be additional help for housing and working tax etc for people who need it, but people need to want to help themselves and move to a better paid job, it is only considered as a stepping stone to a decent wage.

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Finding a better paid job isn't as easy as you suggest. but I do agree that most people just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Sadly most cannot afford any boots to do so.

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Just get a better job, it's simple :hehe:

Also, who is going to do those jobs?

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Youngsters and new workers do the job's, it's a ladder then they move up and new youngsters replace them, you shouldn't start work at the bottom with the aim of staying there for ever?

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Youngsters and new workers do the job's, it's a ladder then they move up and new youngsters replace them, you shouldn't start work at the bottom with the aim of staying there for ever?

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Where exactly is the ladder when you're a cleaner? What is the career progression?

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Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa

Where exactly is the ladder when you're a cleaner? What is the career progression?

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In front of you how are you going to do the upstairs windows?