Not about Zelensky being installed by the CIA, but the rest, yes, i agree. Putin is Scum and should never had invaded, but what we are seeing is the outright provocation of Russia by the west.Quote:
Originally Posted by CopenhagenBlue
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Not about Zelensky being installed by the CIA, but the rest, yes, i agree. Putin is Scum and should never had invaded, but what we are seeing is the outright provocation of Russia by the west.Quote:
Originally Posted by CopenhagenBlue
It’s the Russians that take out commercial jets isn’t it? Like the Malaysian airways one full of kids? How many Russians have been killed by putin so far? More than Ukrainians? Despite the relentless bombing and there’s nothing really left of the area Russia has bombed is there? What a result heyQuote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
Putin hasn't killed more Russians than Ukrainians.Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
Did Russia purposely attack the Malaysian flight?
The civilians he is killing right now are ethnic Russians, the troops are a mixture of Ukrainians and ethnic Russians. We currently have around 70 refugees, the are almost all ethnic Russians, all women & children whose Russian ethnic fathers, husbands, sons are either dead or fighting against Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
Please stop talking out of your arse.
When you use the term " Buying influence " do you mean giving aid to ? ? ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
the Ukraine is well down on the list of countries the US gives aid to, its only a few places above Russia, under $ 100 mill separates them, in the past 20 years the US has sent Russia over $ 3 Billion to help with social and economic projects, which is very close to the $ 5 bill its sent the Ukraine in 34 years
Do you honestly think you know more of the plight of those fleeing Ukraine to an area where you live and have the ability to interact first hand with, over an internet nutjob who probably barely leaves a bedsit in Splott?Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Parrot
If only we had let Hitler have Poland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
Guten tag, mein herr.
He can’t help it….young Russians sent to their deaths, 1000’s of them…..plenty more to come tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Des Parrot
LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman
Why have you continuously ignored requests for links to some appropriate evidence?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
I find it revealing that nobody has commented on the Clare Daly speech.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
We're all allegedly behind Ukraine. The key word is behind. Pushing. It's a war. We should try and stop wars. We're not doing that. We're profiting from supplying arms in the meantime and then there'll be the inevitable re-build. We all know there are only two possible outcomes. 1. Diplomatic end and a stop to the killing and slaughter (it's no good yelling "he started it" that's why we need diplomacy) or 2. The West need to stop being hypocrites and fight alongside Ukraine. This risks WWIII and Nuclear war. So 1. is the only way forward.
But No1 is a no-go, you think Putin wants to sit down for a Diplomatic chat ( Didnt Macron try that at the start ) Putin doesn't want to chat, he wants to control the Dombas and Luhansk regions ( or the south and east area's if you want ) and then move and take it allQuote:
Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew
a diplomatic view might be the Ukrainians give him th South and east and should be happy with that, but it'll only be a matter of time till the troops and missiles are heading inwards to whole of the country, Putin knows the west doesn't want to get ' too involved " as it'll start WW3 and he has Nukes, so he can do what he likes
If 1. is a no go and 2. is a no go.....then what exactly is the plan?Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
Stop thinking that your anecdotal evidence is the full picture. It's not. Russia are not targeting civilians, if they were, they'd have flattened kiev with cruise missiles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Parrot
Get behind Ukraine as we are now it seems and hope they can defeat Russia and push them backQuote:
Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew
What have Russian officials said that make you think that? If Macron came out and guaranteed that Ukraine wouldn't join Nato or the EU then i'd have more sympathy for your point. He hasn't done that.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
You seem to think American money going to Ukraine is out of the goodness of their hearts. How naive, it's geo political weapon to spread influence of the American empire. Let's say Ukraine pledged 100% alleigence to Russia, the "aid" would probably stop over night.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
So you're happy for the West to keep pumping arms into the Ukraine and fight until the last Ukrainian life? all because the Nato and EU fanatics want to expand all over the Russian European border and control Ukrainian agriculture.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
you appear to have missed the $3 Billion going to Russia over the last 20 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
The US has a massive foreign aid program, you must be pretty sceptical to think its all a geopolitical weapon to spread influence of the American empire
In Ukraines case, of course they didnt want the Ukraine to fail in its independence after breaking away from the USSR, why would they ( or the west )
Yes the war is terrible, both sides are losing 1,000s of men. I want it to stop and offering solutions/ideas. You're behind the American empires efforts to prolong the war and waste every last Ukrainian life in their persuit of dominance and Russian humiliation.Quote:
Originally Posted by goats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
so when Russia controls the Ukraine, either by negotiations or by force, they get swallowed up into Russia , guess what, Ukraine has 4 EU countries on its border Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Romania
lets go back to the Putin invaded Ukraine argument because it didnt want Ukraine to join the EU and Nato and have a EU / NATO member on its doorstep, remember that argument about provocation ? ? ?
So are you happy to allow that to happen and have Putin provoked by 4 borders ( make it 5 when Finland joins Nato ), what will his play be then ? ?
but to your question, as long as the Ukraine wants the west help, then yes I am
But that's the status quo Matt. There has to be a diplomatic end to this. People make comparisons to Poland '39 but there are none. This is a fustercluck. Ukraine and its people will be destroyed. These politicians need to stop waving their dicks at each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
It is the status quo, yesQuote:
Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew
but as Option 1 is a no-go, and even if it did work, Putin will know he can march into another country as we won't go with option 2
I pointed out above
so when Russia controls the Ukraine, either by negotiations or by force, they get swallowed up into Russia , guess what, Ukraine has 4 EU countries on its border Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Romania
lets go back to the Putin invaded Ukraine argument because it didnt want Ukraine to join the EU and Nato and have a EU / NATO member on its doorstep, remember that argument about provocation ? ? ?
There are no sizable Russian minorities in Hungary, Poland, Slovakia and Romania.Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
The fact America sends a few billion to Russia proves they're trying to buy influence.
Do you know anything about the Minsk agreement 1 and 2?
Still no links huh?
So how about the the Baltic states? they have sizeable Russian minorities, they next? will that be ok by you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
So America is trying to buy influence in Russia, thats never going to work is it, not sure they are that NaiveQuote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
Yes, I had heard of the Minsk 1 and 2 agreement, the 1st didnt work, the 2nd nearly touched the issue and never worked either, Russian backed separatists never really took notice of it, I wonder why ? ? ? did they know they had the full support of Russia behind them and the Aszov were never going to give it up, they were fighting for their country ( though I am sure you will say that version of events are from pro EU MSM and wrong )
It's Ayn Rand on steroidsQuote:
Originally Posted by ToTaL ITK
it's not Randian to reject an experimental vaccine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
I'm not a Rand fanatic anyway, if you followed carefully what i type you'd realise this.
Hello Kev, here we have a leaked phone call between the US state department and the American ambassador in Ukraine. It's from 2014 when the Moscow loyal government was violently over-thrown by a CIA/George Soros led coup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canton Kev
In this phone call the senior American officials are clearly choosing who they will install as their puppet leader in Ukraine. You won't hear about this on the BBC though.
https://youtu.be/WV9J6sxCs5k
Enjoy!
[QUOTE=Lither_1927;5321996]Stop thinking that your anecdotal evidence is the full picture. It's not. Russia are not targeting civilians, if they were, they'd have flattened kiev with cruise missiles.[/QUOTE
Russia are not targeting civilians? I’d rather believe Svetlana, her daughters and grandson who fled from Kharkiv and haven’t spoken to their husband / father since April. I’m unable to explain anecdote to her, I’d be ashamed to.
He wants to free Moldova next, cutting Ukraine off from the Black SeaQuote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
https://youtu.be/WV9J6sxCs5kQuote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
Democracy in action eh!
[QUOTE=Des Parrot;5322094]Civilians will be caught in cross fire or mistakes will be made during war. But Russia actively targeting Civilians, no evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
You haven't answered my question about Kiev, it's functioning like a normal City. If the Russians wanted to target Civilians they could flatten Kiev.
Are you aware of the Ukrainians shelling Donbass residents around 2014? Probably not, you'd rather follow the narrative that the Russians are war hungry despotic savages.
Quite a large Gas Shelf off the coast of Ukraine I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Parrot
Which i'm sure America has no interest in lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue
Just like their war in Iraq.
Listen to the youtube link i posted further up. It's only 5 minutes long. The Americans organised the coup in 2014 then hand picked a puppet leader but it's all Russia's fault
Would you agree that the development of said shelf would be against Russia's economic interests?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
Also we've not mentioned Putins ramblings about Ukraine not even being a proper country and saying that it should come back into the fold?
I'll answer your question after you tell me about the American led coup of Ukraine in 2014. What do you think of that phone call?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue
I listened to it, I don't think it's quite the smoking gun that you think it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lither_1927
it seems to be post the 'revolution of dignity' and the Americans are trying to use their influence to make sure that whatever government that forms in the wake of that is stable and with the people they wanted involved.
seems pretty obvious that they would try to exert their influence there. I'm sure other countries were having similar conversations looking out for their own interests too.
why wouldn't they want a pro western / EU / USA government, after all the people wanted the Pro Putin / anti EU government outQuote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
isnt that what the Ukrainian protestors wanted aswell