Time to Move

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goats

Yeah if fans want to be near the away fans and sing why don’t they just buy tickets that end of the Ninian? Or did they and the club stopped them or something bizarre? I can’t recall. Maybe they should just encourage that and the atmosphere and noise would be far louder akin to Wales games when more than one stand joins in and it sounds top

---

More expensive and the Canton is the designated standing area. Has been for years. I know in the past the club have asked stewards to stop people from standing in the Ninian.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Out of curiosity, who feels that away fans coming to Cardiff should be intimidated or should they be able to enjoy a game without idiots goading them?

---

You obviously are dead against it and were quite insulting earlier in the thread. I’ve been away plenty of times and our section has been next to the vocal home fans, I’ve not been intimidated once. The idiots goading each other are usually about twenty strong and site themselves as near to each other as possible, it certainly doesn’t affect the vast majority on both sides who are intent on watching the game. You sound like one of those people who never go and ask you in the pub after ‘Any trouble down there?’.

A bit of edge adds to the atmosphere and everyone mixes outside the ground without a pick of bother. Perhaps it’s you who can’t help himself and, when near the opposing fans, has to watch them rather than the match.

I’m just all for improving the atmosphere at our ground, it gets quite embarrassing on times when our support is completely drowned out by the away fans (it does seem that the acoustics are better at the Grange End) if we go behind in a game. Whereas that is the precise time the team needs the backing and, in my opinion, home fans near the away fans, rather than go into their shell when their team is losing up their game to match the the away support. It certainly happened at a Reading the other Saturday and has happened a few times at the Hawthorns.

Unfortunately you still seem to be stuck in the ‘hooligan, let’s get over the fence era’. Thankfully fans mix freely outside grounds now, get buses together, nobody is still charging up and down Sloper Rd. What goes on in the ground, stays in the ground.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by splott parker

You obviously are dead against it and were quite insulting earlier in the thread. I’ve been away plenty of times and our section has been next to the vocal home fans, I’ve not been intimidated once. The idiots goading each other are usually about twenty strong and site themselves as near to each other as possible, it certainly doesn’t affect the vast majority on both sides who are intent on watching the game. You sound like one of those people who never go and ask you in the pub after ‘Any trouble down there?’.

A bit of edge adds to the atmosphere and everyone mixes outside the ground without a pick of bother. Perhaps it’s you who can’t help himself and, when near the opposing fans, has to watch them rather than the match.

I’m just all for improving the atmosphere at our ground, it gets quite embarrassing on times when our support is completely drowned out by the away fans (it does seem that the acoustics are better at the Grange End) if we go behind in a game. Whereas that is the precise time the team needs the backing and, in my opinion, home fans near the away fans, rather than go into their shell when their team is losing up their game to match the the away support. It certainly happened at a Reading the other Saturday and has happened a few times at the Hawthorns.

Unfortunately you still seem to be stuck in the ‘hooligan, let’s get over the fence era’. Thankfully fans mix freely outside grounds now, get buses together, nobody is still charging up and down Sloper Rd. What goes on in the ground, stays in the ground.

---

I believe the issue on atmosphere is the Ninian Stand. Its really poor. Surely some groups in there want to sing.?

However for arguments sake they looked at switching the Canton always seems to be full. Who decides who moves across into a smaller area. Less fans in less face it the only vocal area.

Or do we move the away fans into part of the Ninian?

Also think your wrong on potential issues. Games v Swansea the wurzels Millwall there
is definitely potential for trouble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by splott parker

You obviously are dead against it and were quite insulting earlier in the thread. I’ve been away plenty of times and our section has been next to the vocal home fans, I’ve not been intimidated once. The idiots goading each other are usually about twenty strong and site themselves as near to each other as possible, it certainly doesn’t affect the vast majority on both sides who are intent on watching the game. You sound like one of those people who never go and ask you in the pub after ‘Any trouble down there?’.

A bit of edge adds to the atmosphere and everyone mixes outside the ground without a pick of bother. Perhaps it’s you who can’t help himself and, when near the opposing fans, has to watch them rather than the match.

I’m just all for improving the atmosphere at our ground, it gets quite embarrassing on times when our support is completely drowned out by the away fans (it does seem that the acoustics are better at the Grange End) if we go behind in a game. Whereas that is the precise time the team needs the backing and, in my opinion, home fans near the away fans, rather than go into their shell when their team is losing up their game to match the the away support. It certainly happened at a Reading the other Saturday and has happened a few times at the Hawthorns.

Unfortunately you still seem to be stuck in the ‘hooligan, let’s get over the fence era’. Thankfully fans mix freely outside grounds now, get buses together, nobody is still charging up and down Sloper Rd. What goes on in the ground, stays in the ground.

---

Has there ever been any trouble at the ccs? Or outside more likely? Anywhere in the city in the last 15/20 years football related? There will always be a group of young idiots at every ground but like SP says, who cares? You going to get angry and jump over the seats and through the stewards to get them? Of course not….those days have gone, long gone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by splott parker

You obviously are dead against it and were quite insulting earlier in the thread. I’ve been away plenty of times and our section has been next to the vocal home fans, I’ve not been intimidated once. The idiots goading each other are usually about twenty strong and site themselves as near to each other as possible, it certainly doesn’t affect the vast majority on both sides who are intent on watching the game. You sound like one of those people who never go and ask you in the pub after ‘Any trouble down there?’.

A bit of edge adds to the atmosphere and everyone mixes outside the ground without a pick of bother. Perhaps it’s you who can’t help himself and, when near the opposing fans, has to watch them rather than the match.

I’m just all for improving the atmosphere at our ground, it gets quite embarrassing on times when our support is completely drowned out by the away fans (it does seem that the acoustics are better at the Grange End) if we go behind in a game. Whereas that is the precise time the team needs the backing and, in my opinion, home fans near the away fans, rather than go into their shell when their team is losing up their game to match the the away support. It certainly happened at a Reading the other Saturday and has happened a few times at the Hawthorns.

Unfortunately you still seem to be stuck in the ‘hooligan, let’s get over the fence era’. Thankfully fans mix freely outside grounds now, get buses together, nobody is still charging up and down Sloper Rd. What goes on in the ground, stays in the ground.

---

The Ninian stand is the problem

Wales games show the layout of the stadium is fine, you just need more than one stand making noise

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goats

Has there ever been any trouble at the ccs? Or outside more likely? Anywhere in the city in the last 15/20 years football related? There will always be a group of young idiots at every ground but like SP says, who cares? You going to get angry and jump over the seats and through the stewards to get them? Of course not….those days have gone, long gone.

---

Not wishing to stoke this up but yes, there has. When we were in the PL there were a few incidents (against Man United I think) in the ground and there's been scuffles with stewards at the away end.

I walk to matches from Grangetown and during the PL season's big matches Mrs Citizen was targeted with sexual, verbal abuse and no longer wears Cardiff colours. We've seen scuffles outside on Sloper road and there's been more of them. I've seen young Cardiff fans throwing coins at away fans coming out of CCS.

I've seen police drag middle-aged men off each other on Sloper road after matches. It's slowly started to get worse over the last decade imo. There's something wrong when a decade ago we both felt comfortable walking home but feel less so now. That feeling of vulnerability (especially being disabled) is amplified when you see violence or are on the end of verbal abuse.

To put some perspective on this, we'll walk to matches there and back around 30+ times over a season so we get to see and hear quite a bit. I'm not saying it's a massive problem, but I am concerned enough to feel a bit nervous these days when I didn't a few years ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canton Kev

But other clubs have shown that a safe stadium is still possible with opposing fans next to each other. Unless you think Cardiff City would be the exception?

Back when our hooligan element was at its worst we were getting ~4k at games. Now we get 20k. Our club has (thankfully) become much more accessible to families and younger fans and our hooligan element is all but gone. Not only that, the idiots that used to enjoy getting into fights and running riot with the police are in their 50’s and 60’s now. I’d imagine they’re all bark and no bite these days.

I would argue any trouble from our fans is more likely to happen at away games than home games as that’s the more hardcore support and they’re more drunk and drugged up. How many away games in the past decade have had trouble? Bristol last year, Man City in 2014 and a bit further back, Chelsea in 2010. That’s all I can recall at the moment, perhaps there’s others.

These days fans drink in the same pubs and walk down the same streets after games and mingle. I don’t expect simply switching the ends would change that.

---

The reason that there is a lot less trouble at home games nowadays is almost entirely down to the layout and management of the new stadium, which was purpose built to provide a safe/secure and easily ‘policed’ environment for fans. Putting opposing fans right next to each other would drive a horse and cart through the whole system. There is evidence of bad behaviour by some City fans but especially other teams fans, in recent years as well, usually fuelled by alcohol. What about when someone scores at the Grange end and celebrates in front of their own fans - right next to the opposition fans !! Why anyone would want to change a system that works and encourage fan confrontation, is beyond me. Perhaps the people now complaining the loudest are part of the original problem and miss ‘the good old days’ ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

The reason that there is a lot less trouble at home games nowadays is almost entirely down to the layout and management of the new stadium, which was purpose built to provide a safe/secure and easily ‘policed’ environment for fans. Putting opposing fans right next to each other would drive a horse and cart through the whole system. There is evidence of bad behaviour by some City fans but especially other teams fans, in recent years as well, usually fuelled by alcohol. What about when someone scores at the Grange end and celebrates in front of their own fans - right next to the opposition fans !! Why anyone would want to change a system that works and encourage fan confrontation, is beyond me. Perhaps the people now complaining the loudest are part of the original problem and miss ‘the good old days’ ?

---

Except lots of stadiums, modern and old, manage just fine with away fans next to the vocal home supporters. Unless you think Cardiff would be the one exception and we’d revert back to the days of 80’s style hooliganism?
Which was before I was born I’ll add, so your last point is incorrect in my case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

The reason that there is a lot less trouble at home games nowadays is almost entirely down to the layout and management of the new stadium, which was purpose built to provide a safe/secure and easily ‘policed’ environment for fans. Putting opposing fans right next to each other would drive a horse and cart through the whole system. There is evidence of bad behaviour by some City fans but especially other teams fans, in recent years as well, usually fuelled by alcohol. What about when someone scores at the Grange end and celebrates in front of their own fans - right next to the opposition fans !! Why anyone would want to change a system that works and encourage fan confrontation, is beyond me. Perhaps the people now complaining the loudest are part of the original problem and miss ‘the good old days’ ?

---

I’m in the Grandstand and your ‘miss the good old days’ is a ridiculous quote. Someone has mentioned that Swansea & Millwall fans have caused a bit of trouble at the away end, so I’ll put another spin on it, is it wise to have our family stand so close to potential trouble? Or should we have our kids & families as far away as possible?

Anyway I only started this thread because I was impressed by the way Reading have sorted their atmosphere out with no trouble whatsoever. Fans of both sides post match chatting and catching the football buses back into town with no bother at all. Some of our fans seem to love harking back to, as you say ‘the good old days’, they may have been good old days to you dml1954 but they certainly weren’t to the majority of us.

I’ll tell you what wasn’t a good old day, ‘Play Up Pompey’ ringing around our ground last Tuesday.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

The reason that there is a lot less trouble at home games nowadays is almost entirely down to the layout and management of the new stadium, which was purpose built to provide a safe/secure and easily ‘policed’ environment for fans. Putting opposing fans right next to each other would drive a horse and cart through the whole system. There is evidence of bad behaviour by some City fans but especially other teams fans, in recent years as well, usually fuelled by alcohol. What about when someone scores at the Grange end and celebrates in front of their own fans - right next to the opposition fans !! Why anyone would want to change a system that works and encourage fan confrontation, is beyond me. Perhaps the people now complaining the loudest are part of the original problem and miss ‘the good old days’ ?

---

Can’t say I particularly enjoy sitting next to them with my two boys (8 and 10)…luckily they couldn’t understand a word the northerners, brummies or cockneys were saying…..:hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by splott parker

I’m in the Grandstand and your ‘miss the good old days’ is a ridiculous quote. Someone has mentioned that Swansea & Millwall fans have caused a bit of trouble at the away end, so I’ll put another spin on it, is it wise to have our family stand so close to potential trouble? Or should we have our kids & families as far away as possible?

Anyway I only started this thread because I was impressed by the way Reading have sorted their atmosphere out with no trouble whatsoever. Fans of both sides post match chatting and catching the football buses back into town with no bother at all. Some of our fans seem to love harking back to, as you say ‘the good old days’, they may have been good old days to you dml1954 but they certainly weren’t to the majority of us.

I’ll tell you what wasn’t a good old day, ‘Play Up Pompey’ ringing around our ground last Tuesday.

---

I think this is the strongest argument tbh Mr P. I've often thought exactly that. So, ironically, there is a H&S element to it and I think that's worthy of discussion in its own right.

Maybe my own vulnerability is contributing to my caution.

We went to Birmingham away last season and had a great time. Met some lovely Brum fans and shared a cab to the ground. Apart from the overwhelming police presence and some issues getting out it was a really good day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

The reason that there is a lot less trouble at home games nowadays is almost entirely down to the layout and management of the new stadium, which was purpose built to provide a safe/secure and easily ‘policed’ environment for fans. Putting opposing fans right next to each other would drive a horse and cart through the whole system. There is evidence of bad behaviour by some City fans but especially other teams fans, in recent years as well, usually fuelled by alcohol. What about when someone scores at the Grange end and celebrates in front of their own fans - right next to the opposition fans !! Why anyone would want to change a system that works and encourage fan confrontation, is beyond me. Perhaps the people now complaining the loudest are part of the original problem and miss ‘the good old days’ ?

---

And just by co incidence not outside or anywhere in the city on match day either? That’s down to the stadium layout? That’s remarkable :hehe:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canton Kev

Except lots of stadiums, modern and old, manage just fine with away fans next to the vocal home supporters. Unless you think Cardiff would be the one exception and we’d revert back to the days of 80’s style hooliganism?
Which was before I was born I’ll add, so your last point is incorrect in my case.

---

I wasn't aiming it at you to be fair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goats

And just by co incidence not outside or anywhere in the city on match day either? That’s down to the stadium layout? That’s remarkable :hehe:

---

I don’t know if you are being deliberately obtuse but Its down to the way that the stadium is policed and stewarded and the fact that rival fans are generally kept well apart. Its not rocket science really is it. The incidence of bad behaviour at our home games reduced considerably when we moved to the new stadium.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

I don’t know if you are being deliberately obtuse but Its down to the way that the stadium is policed and stewarded and the fact that rival fans are generally kept well apart. Its not rocket science really is it. The incidence of bad behaviour at our home games reduced considerably when we moved to the new stadium.

---

Or society has moved on from those days? Cardiff City included. What about all the teams that haven’t moved stadiums in the last ~30 years?
Why don’t we have hooligan issues when we travel to these old stadiums without the modern stadium safety features?

Our crowds are 5 to 6 times bigger than back in the hooligan days and the football has become a family day out for many. What percentage of the crowds were women and children back in the 80’s compared to now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by splott parker

I’m in the Grandstand and your ‘miss the good old days’ is a ridiculous quote. Someone has mentioned that Swansea & Millwall fans have caused a bit of trouble at the away end, so I’ll put another spin on it, is it wise to have our family stand so close to potential trouble? Or should we have our kids & families as far away as possible?

Anyway I only started this thread because I was impressed by the way Reading have sorted their atmosphere out with no trouble whatsoever. Fans of both sides post match chatting and catching the football buses back into town with no bother at all. Some of our fans seem to love harking back to, as you say ‘the good old days’, they may have been good old days to you dml1954 but they certainly weren’t to the majority of us.

I’ll tell you what wasn’t a good old day, ‘Play Up Pompey’ ringing around our ground last Tuesday.

---

The fact that the words ‘good old days’ in my previous post were in inverted commas should have given you a clue to the fact that I didn't enjoy them either. You seem to be pining after them though to me. I attended games at Ninian Park in the 70’s and 80’s where I was literally afraid for my life (Leeds fans infiltrating the main grandstand in disguise right behind me to attack City fans in the enclosure, Millwall fans taking over the ground after a game, wrecking it and trying to get into the dressing rooms, Swansea fans in the grandstand ripping out seats and throwing them into the Cardiff fans in the grange end and enclosure etc etc etc). Anyone wanting to go back to those sorts of thing happening (which putting fans right next to each other would encourage) is frankly mad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

I don’t know if you are being deliberately obtuse but Its down to the way that the stadium is policed and stewarded and the fact that rival fans are generally kept well apart. Its not rocket science really is it. The incidence of bad behaviour at our home games reduced considerably when we moved to the new stadium.

---

So tell me when you have seen rival fans fighting each other inside Ninian Park? It was lively sometimes I know in the Sam hammam era with away fans surrounded so to speak but it rarely got out of control (Leeds fa cup for ie but no fighting) It’s a bit of a myth really, plenty of trouble away caused by our fans but not here, not for a long time. I get the club might want to reduce the likelihood of it happening but apart from the odd idiot ( which will always be in society) I don’t think there would be any trouble at the ground.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Citizen's Nephew

I think this is the strongest argument tbh Mr P. I've often thought exactly that. So, ironically, there is a H&S element to it and I think that's worthy of discussion in its own right.

Maybe my own vulnerability is contributing to my caution.

We went to Birmingham away last season and had a great time. Met some lovely Brum fans and shared a cab to the ground. Apart from the overwhelming police presence and some issues getting out it was a really good day.

---

I think that you are missing the point as well. Having the family stand next to the away fans area actually helps control the whole system. There is no intimidatory behaviour being aimed at away fans and no missiles being thrown either. No one but the sickest away fan would therefore start reciprocation in the opposite direction and it rarely, if ever, appears to happen. This considerably reduces the intimidatory atmosphere within the stadium and reduces the risk of any violence or other problems occurring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

The fact that the words ‘good old days’ in my previous post were in inverted commas should have given you a clue to the fact that I didn't enjoy them either. You seem to be pining after them though to me. I attended games at Ninian Park in the 70’s and 80’s where I was literally afraid for my life (Leeds fans infiltrating the main grandstand in disguise right behind me to attack City fans in the enclosure, Millwall fans taking over the ground after a game, wrecking it and trying to get into the dressing rooms, Swansea fans in the grandstand ripping out seats and throwing them into the Cardiff fans in the grange end and enclosure etc etc etc). Anyone wanting to go back to those sorts of thing happening (which putting fans right next to each other would encourage) is frankly mad.

---

Millwall? In 2000 was it? There was no one in the ground, I know because me and a few others were the last to leave on the Bob bank that day. The idiots got their arses handed back to them on a plate under the grandstand I believe, that’s the only time I’ve heard of actual fighting in the ground this century……

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goats

So tell me when you have seen rival fans fighting each other inside Ninian Park? It was lively sometimes I know in the Sam hammam era with away fans surrounded so to speak but it rarely got out of control (Leeds fa cup for ie but no fighting) It’s a bit of a myth really, plenty of trouble away caused by our fans but not here, not for a long time. I get the club might want to reduce the likelihood of it happening but apart from the odd idiot ( which will always be in society) I don’t think there would be any trouble at the ground.

---

Your comments in this post beggar belief. Did you ever go to a game at Ninian Park ? I refer you to my reply to SP above which contains three occasions when I was in fear of my safety and there were many other occasions both inside and outside the ground, all caused by fans being allowed in close proximity to each other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

I don’t know if you are being deliberately obtuse but Its down to the way that the stadium is policed and stewarded and the fact that rival fans are generally kept well apart. Its not rocket science really is it. The incidence of bad behaviour at our home games reduced considerably when we moved to the new stadium.

---

Do you even go to games? You’re talking through your arse, rival fans generally kept apart???? Rival fans are actively encouraged to park at Gôl or Canton Rugby Club, there were plenty of Brum fans walking alongside City fans up Leckwith Rd, even having the audacity to take a short cut through Lidl’s car park. Fans are certainly not kept apart and everything seems to go smoothly. You seem obsessed by this ‘good old days’ thing. Try nipping down to a match and see for yourself, this ‘trouble’ which you seem to have a fixation with is a figment of your imagination.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goats

Millwall? In 2000 was it? There was no one in the ground, I know because me and a few others were the last to leave on the Bob bank that day. The idiots got their arses handed back to them on a plate under the grandstand I believe, that’s the only time I’ve heard of actual fighting in the ground this century……

---

Wrong - i and a number of other City fans were stuck in the ground at the back of the bob bank, with the Millwall fans rampaging around and trying to get at us. Both exits had been closed as they were blocked by Millwall fans fighting outside with City fans and there was nowhere to go. We were ‘protected’ by a handful of stewards. Luckily the police managed to regain control before they got across the pitch into the terracing. You are trying to defend the indefensible. As I said before, the new stadium has largely solved all these problems which is why I am totally against the relaxing of crowd segregation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by splott parker

Do you even go to games? You’re talking through your arse, rival fans generally kept apart???? Rival fans are actively encouraged to park at Gôl or Canton Rugby Club, there were plenty of Brum fans walking alongside City fans up Leckwith Rd, even having the audacity to take a short cut through Lidl’s car park. Fans are certainly not kept apart and everything seems to go smoothly. You seem obsessed by this ‘good old days’ thing. Try nipping down to a match and see for yourself, this ‘trouble’ which you seem to have a fixation with is a figment of your imagination.

---

I have been to nearly every home game and a number of away games, every season for the last 58 years, so it is you that is ‘talking out of your arse’. There is no trouble at our home games since we moved to the new stadium (I never said there was) but you appear unable to work out why, even though the answer is right under your nose, and continue to advocate putting opposing fans as close as possible together and bugger the consequences.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

I have been to nearly every home game and a number of away games, every season for the last 58 years, so it is you that is ‘talking out of your arse’. There is no trouble at our home games since we moved to the new stadium (I never said there was) but you appear unable to work out why, even though the answer is right under your nose, and continue to advocate putting opposing fans as close as possible together and bugger the consequences.

---

You keep ignoring the question. If trouble is caused by vocal fans being adjacent to away fans, why don’t we seen weekly trouble at the stadiums that allow it?
If Cardiff City would be the exception, why don’t we see it at Cardiff away games?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

Wrong - i and a number of other City fans were stuck in the ground at the back of the bob bank, with the Millwall fans rampaging around and trying to get at us. Both exits had been closed as they were blocked by Millwall fans fighting outside with City fans and there was nowhere to go. We were ‘protected’ by a handful of stewards. Luckily the police managed to regain control before they got across the pitch into the terracing. You are trying to defend the indefensible. As I said before, the new stadium has largely solved all these problems which is why I am totally against the relaxing of crowd segregation.

---

Absolute rubbish they never came anywhere near the Bob bank….I was sitting in the front row of seats for ages waiting for it all to calm down outside before I left…..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by splott parker

Do you even go to games? You’re talking through your arse, rival fans generally kept apart???? Rival fans are actively encouraged to park at Gôl or Canton Rugby Club, there were plenty of Brum fans walking alongside City fans up Leckwith Rd, even having the audacity to take a short cut through Lidl’s car park. Fans are certainly not kept apart and everything seems to go smoothly. You seem obsessed by this ‘good old days’ thing. Try nipping down to a match and see for yourself, this ‘trouble’ which you seem to have a fixation with is a figment of your imagination.

---

Definitely arse talk….

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canton Kev

You keep ignoring the question. If trouble is caused by vocal fans being adjacent to away fans, why don’t we seen weekly trouble at the stadiums that allow it?
If Cardiff City would be the exception, why don’t we see it at Cardiff away games?

---

Well the easy answer is that we do see some trouble at City away games, such as when fans wrecked the toilet's at Bristol City last year. Whilst I accept that could have happened wherever the opposing fans were located, these incidents always seem to occur at the higher profile games where the rivalry and intimidation is obviously much more intense. In our case that would be the games against Bristol City, Swansea, Leeds, Millwall, Birmingham, West Brom etc and having rival fans located close to each other especially on those occasions would only add to the problem. Some clubs are known for having a more family friendly atmosphere and don't have a big reputation for past hooliganism, so there would be less likelihood of problems arising if fans were close at those games but unfortunately you have to cater for the worst case scenario in these matters. Older people, disabled people, women and children would be much less likely to attend games if there was foul language, intimidation and the possibility of violence. The other question is - how many clubs actually allow it now ? My recollection is that there are few in the Championship. The problem at Reading was that originally the home fans were turfed out of their normal section to make room for the away fans and there were many complaints and some people stopped going, so in order to appease fans and get attendances up, Reading moved the home section back next to the away area. Reading are not a club with a particular hooligan problem that I know of, so that would explain why there would be less likely to be problems with the arrangement (plus there would be the threat of the club changing it back) but that doesn't make it the right thing to do generally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goats

Absolute rubbish they never came anywhere near the Bob bank….I was sitting in the front row of seats for ages waiting for it all to calm down outside before I left…..

---

And you didn't think the fact that both exits were blocked, home fans were stuck in the ground with no police presence near and that the Millwall fans were on the pitch in front of the grandstand, breaking through into the tunnel area and damaging the stand, with nothing to stop them getting on the bob bank was a concern ? You obviously must have a much higher threshold for acceptable levels of violence and associated risks to your health than most normal people then. It was just another normal day at the office for you perhaps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

Well the easy answer is that we do see some trouble at City away games, such as when fans wrecked the toilet's at Bristol City last year. Whilst I accept that could have happened wherever the opposing fans were located, these incidents always seem to occur at the higher profile games where the rivalry and intimidation is obviously much more intense. In our case that would be the games against Bristol City, Swansea, Leeds, Millwall, Birmingham, West Brom etc and having rival fans located close to each other especially on those occasions would only add to the problem. Some clubs are known for having a more family friendly atmosphere and don't have a big reputation for past hooliganism, so there would be less likelihood of problems arising if fans were close at those games but unfortunately you have to cater for the worst case scenario in these matters. Older people, disabled people, women and children would be much less likely to attend games if there was foul language, intimidation and the possibility of violence. The other question is - how many clubs actually allow it now ? My recollection is that there are few in the Championship. The problem at Reading was that originally the home fans were turfed out of their normal section to make room for the away fans and there were many complaints and some people stopped going, so in order to appease fans and get attendances up, Reading moved the home section back next to the away area. Reading are not a club with a particular hooligan problem that I know of, so that would explain why there would be less likely to be problems with the arrangement (plus there would be the threat of the club changing it back) but that doesn't make it the right thing to do generally.

---

That's one example from ~25 away games every season. If our support was so bad surely there would be loads of instances of similar events. Considering you said "these incidents always seem to occur at the higher profile games" it certainly seems a rare occurrence to me.
Bristol also have their vocal support at the opposite end of the stadium so the catalyst for that trouble can't be blamed on having opposing fans next to each other.

What about games where Cardiff and the vocal home fans have been next to each other? Huddersfield, Derby, Forest, Reading, Middlesbrough, Birmingham, Norwich, Luton and probably more that I'm forgetting, I believe all have that set up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

I have been to nearly every home game and a number of away games, every season for the last 58 years, so it is you that is ‘talking out of your arse’. There is no trouble at our home games since we moved to the new stadium (I never said there was) but you appear unable to work out why, even though the answer is right under your nose, and continue to advocate putting opposing fans as close as possible together and bugger the consequences.

---

I’ve read your opinions of some of our players, that’s another reason I doubt your attendance. You also seem to think that home and away fans at our ground are kept apart due to the layout, home and away fans mix freely around the perimeter of our ground regularly. If you do go you must wear blinkers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

And you didn't think the fact that both exits were blocked, home fans were stuck in the ground with no police presence near and that the Millwall fans were on the pitch in front of the grandstand, breaking through into the tunnel area and damaging the stand, with nothing to stop them getting on the bob bank was a concern ? You obviously must have a much higher threshold for acceptable levels of violence and associated risks to your health than most normal people then. It was just another normal day at the office for you perhaps.

---

No, like I said that game is the only time this century I’ve seen actual fighting at a game, millwall fans were on the pitch by the grandstand but never once came over the Bob bank like you initially suggested so you were talking out if your arse again. They tried to go under the grandstand but had a very rude awakening shall we say so didn’t know where to go….back on to the grange end looking like idiots from what I can recall. You obv like to blow things out of proportion and have had a somewhat sheltered life. I’ve seen various levels of crazy stuff in countries I’ve been to around the world so maybe the odd scuffle or chavs acting up like I see on nights out in town doesn’t really register with me. Far worse trouble in cardiff city centre every weekend than anywhere near the ccs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dml1954

And you didn't think the fact that both exits were blocked, home fans were stuck in the ground with no police presence near and that the Millwall fans were on the pitch in front of the grandstand, breaking through into the tunnel area and damaging the stand, with nothing to stop them getting on the bob bank was a concern ? You obviously must have a much higher threshold for acceptable levels of violence and associated risks to your health than most normal people then. It was just another normal day at the office for you perhaps.

---

No, like I said that game is the only time this century I’ve seen actual fighting at a game, millwall fans were on the pitch by the grandstand but never once came over the Bob bank like you initially suggested so you were talking out if your arse again. They tried to go under the grandstand but had a very rude awakening shall we say so didn’t know where to go….back on to the grange end looking like idiots from what I can recall. You obv like to blow things out of proportion and have had a somewhat sheltered life. I’ve seen various levels of crazy stuff in countries I’ve been to around the world so maybe the odd scuffle or chavs acting up like I see on nights out in town doesn’t really register with me. Far worse trouble in cardiff city centre every weekend than anywhere near the ccs