Right wing minority view: 'oh that's just a few people'Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Left wing minority view: 'the left are saying this'
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Right wing minority view: 'oh that's just a few people'Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Left wing minority view: 'the left are saying this'
Fair point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
I had to battle through numerous 'ThE GoVt wAnTs tO kIlL kIdS' posts on Facebook mind. I've never seen anyone I know genuinely say there should be zero immigration or that children should be made to starve.
There was huge backlash to Rashford’s school meal initiatives during lockdown. At least 1, but I think more, Tory MPs were outspoken against it. I believe one said “stick to playing football and you wouldn’t have missed that pen” or something along those lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Yes there was, but the argument was that "kids should starve", which clearly debased the argument. The govt argued that they had already been the first to ever offer school meals outside of term time and were doing more than devolved govts etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canton Kev
I am generally in favour of extended school meals tbh, but those that aren't don't think so because they want to kill starving kids.
Just like those that don't want to give asylum status to everyone who comes here don't necessarily believe in zero immigration
Albainian men, one to two percent of the nations men they reckon, that sounds a lot to me?Quote:
Originally Posted by life on mars
Yet some people are not content to let the immigrant children starve, they'd prefer to chuck Molotov cocktails at them.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I think everyone agrees that domestic terrorism is abhorrent and the book should be thrown at the extremist twat who did it. He should spend years in jail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorcus
The difference is some people saw this coming and argued that some king of disincentives to coming were needed...
I think Cruella is the queen of disincentives!Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
He won't spend any time in jail!Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-63473640
It may or may not legally be defined as such, but I am happy to call him a domestic terrorist and I also think he should spend a long time in jail.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Maybe that won't happen, but it should!
Necro-inmate?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I’m being serious when I say that mugshot looks more like a momento mori.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
He's deadQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
But this is you giving a pass to certain people but not to others. Your position towards anybody who disagrees with the Rwanda plan has been hostile and entirely unsympathetic to individual motivations. We got all sorts of weird abuse from you, you even asked me if I personally 'profit from people smuggling'.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Even earlier in this thread you said:
People were not 'turning a blind eye' they just had a difference of opinion about the Rwanda policy. They were disagreeing that it would work as a deterrent, disagreeing that we should defy international law and disagreeing that it was moral or fair to prejudge an asylum claim based on method of entry.Quote:
The irony is, in turning a blind eye to what in time will (i believe) be seen as mass abuse of the system
The bottom line is, none of this is necessary if you process claims quickly. Some average Joe from Albania has no claim, send him back, wasted journey, wasted money.
The government have you in some kind of vice like grip on this issue. They have proved they can't process claims quickly, they have now proved they can't enact their own unworkable policy. Yet you will support the next pile of horseshit they draw up on the back of a receipt.
How about we just keep this simple and hold them to account for speeding asylum claims up?
Finally, a Tory proposal I can approve of.
Rishi Sunak reportedly planning Equality Act review to underline that 'sex means biological sex rather than gender' https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/r...eview-25403893
There is an absolutely MASSIVE swathe of people in this country who are racist and hate foreigners
It's been bubbling under for years
Our resident tory apologist says that just because people are angry that these brown people are coming to Dover doesn't mean they want these people deported and their food rationed I am afraid is nonsense .......that's EXACTLY what they would do if they were in charge ......and more
The xenophobia , fear and racism has been whipped up by forage and his tory chums , adding to the element of feckwits that were always here
The problem at the moment is one of this government's making and its ironic that the Tories have made immigration and asylum seekers their big stick but they are the ones getting beaten with it
SensibleQuote:
Originally Posted by Organ Morgan.
No, my position on the Rwanda plan is that people offered no alternative and that was broadly rooted (I argued) that people didn't seem to have a big issue with what was going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
Read this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070
Anyone saying several months ago what is now being reported as fact would have been chastised by many on the left. Albanian gangs? People smugglers? Emptied Albanian towns etc? The default argument against that was that these are desperate people and this is heartless etc.
It's good you say people should be sent back if they fail asylum claims, but this still costs us a lot of money, it takes years and often because of the same lawyers who are desperate to prevent serious foreign criminals being deported.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59243086
Anyway, finally it seems people appreciate whats going on. Shame that wasn't acknowledged months ago
Why should I need a solution to the problem to be able to criticise a bad proposal?
If I took my car to a garage and the bloke fixed it up wrong, I can tell. With my non existent knowledge of cars however, I can’t tell him how to fix it.
You’re a hypocrite. On the thread about Braverman’s dream and obsession sending migrants to Rwanda, you came out all guns blazing saying anyone against it supported the current situation and were happy about it. Now when people criticise Rashford they’re doing so in a nuanced way?
The gangs of Albanian men who you said were coming over to sell drugs turned out to be mostly Albanian women trafficked for cheap labourQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
It's one to two percent of Albania's men.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-63473022
https://www.ft.com/content/4049021c-...2-80afccfbed0e
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...o-uk-6w7crsphx
I've had the same position throughout, the asylum process should be followed and method of entry shouldn't matter. It's the only moral/practical position possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
If you valued our robust legal system you wouldn't post shit like this about 'lefty lawyers' constantly. The process is slow because the process is slow. Do you just want due process suspended for foreign born people?
He's been exposed for his double standards in this thread, it's embarrassing he hasn't just owned up and moved on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canton Kev
Not according to the link I posted earlier today.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
I think that’s wrong watch the BBC news tonight they just said 2 years ago we had 50 Albanians crossing the channel in small boats, this year already 12,000 of which 10,000 are single men that equates to one to two percent of all the men in Albania, there are now abandoned villages they are coming here.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Three groups of people on those boats, economic migrants because they earn 10 times less than in the UK, the criminals and the traffickers, and there are some victims of modern slavery (small percentage though) but still obviously terrible.
I understand what you were all going on about now :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
No they aren't. The overwhelming majority are men.Quote:
Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY
Of those determined in the year to June 2022 (a much smaller number) the majority were women.
Thats probably most of the genuine cases right there.
I don't use the term 'lefty lawyers' constantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
But there are plenty of law firms looking to unpick any issue related to immigration, whether it's trying to prevent Jamaican criminals being deported to encouraging anyone to claim asylum in the UK.
And I do think that's irresponsible and not making the country a better place
This is the guy behing Cranbrook Legal who helped keep a murderer in the UK. Brilliant, thanks for that mate.
His twitter is an A-Z of left-wing causes. No doubt he does very well out of it all.
https://twitter.com/AmerZaman13
So have most of us. I try not to get personal on here, but I think the poster you are responding to thinks the rest of us are somehow ill-informed and/or stupid. The latest is that we have only just become aware that this country has an immigration problem. He also likes to lecture us on what's happening in Europe/the wider world (presumably from behind his keyboard in Cardiff while some of us are living/working 'out there' on a daily basis).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
To be fair, most I would just ignore. At least he is irritating enough to provoke a response!
Thats nice of you Peter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Peter
Not everyone agrees with you or Eric you know. It's important to have different opinions.
I do think there is a collective naivity on the left about what has happened in the English channel this summer, yes.
And when have I ever referenced a piece of economic data that is inaccurate about Europe? I'm not sure you have ever in fact disagreed with me on that - indeed, you wouldn't be disagreeing with me, you would be disagreeing with eurostat in most cases.
Oh, I know - and that's absolutely fine. The point I am making is that you seem to assume that if someone doesn't agree with you, that they are ill-informed. It's patronising, undermines your credibility, and suggests you are the one closed to alternative views.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
I spent a career working with eurostat and other data sources. As discussed before, I think that you use them very selectively to suit your own argument.
Still, I enjoy reading your posts, and some (re-brand, Yma o Hyd) I'm in full agreement with. It's just a shame you use such a condescending line of debate.
I would probably accuse many on here of using the exact same (and worse - personal abuse) at me and others tbh. I can certainly think of one or two who fall foul of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Peter
I am sure in practice and in person we are all far more reasonable.
I would suggest that others cherry pick and I will usually try to diversify that data out to try to make my point. Will gladly debate the economic statistics that point to our continental peers not experiencing essentially the same problems as us. If they exist, feel free to present them!
For the record, I don't think anyone on here is ill-informed (anymore than all of us are) but I do think there are some who's loyalty to a particularly party will override anything else and I think when you make a very specific point of diversifying where you get your data and opinions it very rarely leads to some of the strong anti-government opinions on here tbh.
I could name one whose loyalty to a particular party will override anything else.😀
Well, not me. The most recent comment I made on all that is that if there was an election tomorrow I would vote Labour. I've voted for the red lot more than the blue and voted for one of each in the last Cardiff council elections.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
What is frustrating is when for some people, EVERYTHING is the fault of the government. It just isn't so.
Just like not EVERYTHING in Cardiff is the fault of Cardiff Council. Not EVERYTHING in Wales is the fault of the Welsh Govt etc etc etc.
It's no different to people who think the glory days are guaranteed if we just sack the manager.
NonsenseQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
The tory party and its government have been a car crash on acid and the last few months have seen them ignore
the country to try and sort out their own mess
You have been a constant source of support for the shysters
It would irk less if you just came clean but pretending to be a soft tory is a joke .
The only way I would believe you in your claim you don't always vote Tory would be to vote labour , Liberal, Plaid or green in a proxy vote on your behalf
And even then I would check ✔
Keep it to yourselfQuote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
For my two-pennyworth.
In terms of the challenges facing this country, asylum seeking boat people are more noise than heat. Offered a choice of key issues in polls, immigration gets about 20% of top three choices. At the time of the Brexit referendum it was double that.
It certainly triggers the 20%, including a few on here. There is also a shifting narrative. Those who have suddenly found the Albanians in the last months as the latest heat source would have more credibility if they were not equally as vociferous about the "genuine" asylum seekers before Tirana apparently emptied.
That said, for me, the Albanian surge smells. A mature process should be able to separate genuine asylum seekers, chancing economic migrants and illegal immigrants. The Albanian issue mobs them all together.
I understand the argument that about 80% of female Albanians are granted asylum because of their risk of or actual sexual exploitation. What I can't quite rationalise is how they sought to escape sexual exploitation by putting themselves in the hands of people traffickers, who would be the most likely people to exploit them. You have to wonder what happens to these poor women once they are granted asylum when the likely contacts in the UK are possibly the people who shuttled them here in the first place!
There is a real risk that the genuine asylum seekers looking at the UK, where we take a small burden compared with most of the remaining EU, are more vulnerable because of the posture of the UK government and people exploiting Albanians, for whatever reason!
what's wrong with settling them here?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
one of the greatest things we have in our democracy is due process, and our government cannot just treat the people under its jurisdiction in any old manner. If this means that everyone has a legal route to redress then so be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales