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Moore had practically downed tools at that point mind, he then scored 4 goals in 4 appearances for Bournemouth to clinch promotion. There's no way Glatzel would have scored 20 goals under Harris/McCarthy like Moore didQuote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
I think with Glatzel he is a talented player but there's no way we should have spent the amount of money we did on him, some players are just suited so certain clubs/divisions and Glatzel could be one of those.
Moore‘s was very much better, obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
I don’t think so either. I think a comparison with Moore is a bit pointless to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
You’re right, though. Moore was in significantly poorer form than he had been the previous season, and there were various reasons for that. It certainly wasn’t as simple as the strength of the opposition.
I don't think that, but I saw Glatzel play for us enough times to realise that he was never going to be a regular starter for a Championship team, so if he's scoring plenty of goals for Hamburg then there is a pretty simple explanation and it's not Cardiff City ruins strikers.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Yeah, good point, but surely, whoever scouted him must have seen that glatzel wasn't at his best with his back to goal, he wasn't a physical player in terms of holding the ball up and pinning defenders, which is how we played, exclusively. He looked his best when he dropped off from the play, he was a second ball striker, he could never make the first contact. Yet we spent 6 million on him and seemingly ignored his strengths. I'm not attempting to re write history though, at times he looked poor and completely out of the game, he used to have to force aggression out of himself, and it made him look awkward. Poor bugger must have been exasperated by it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by City123
And they don't improve them either.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
We spent a fair bit of money over those 2 years or so on players that didn't really fit the way we play at all, beyond Glatzel we spent serious money on Murphy, Reid and Tomlin, even players like Ward & Cunningham were brought in for millions with no obvious plan of where or how they'd playQuote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
It's like we spent money on a team we wanted to be, without ever bothering to hire managers who would implement a certain way of playing
I’ll concede that the Championship is probably a better league than Bundesliga 2, but to nowhere near the extent you clearly believe it is. However, it’s delusional to think that a poor Championship striker (as you believe Glatzel was) who scores around five goals a season would, first, go to a club like Hamburg (who I’m sure would see us off around six or seven times out of ten) and go straight into their first team and, second, then score goals for them at the rate Glatzel has done for more than a season and a half.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
Incidentally, I notice you’ve ignored TLG’s very good point about Tommy Doyle barely getting a game for Hamburg in the months immediately before he came here to become an important regular starter in our side - that doesn’t tie in with your narrative does it.
I don't know why Tommy Doyle didn't play much for Hamburg, but since my argument is not that Hamburg is a worse team than Cardiff, but is that the opposition Hamburg plays against are on average worse than the opposition Cardiff plays against, I'm not sure it's quite as good a point as you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Really we only have three players we can consider when comparing the two leagues - Glatzel, who struggled at City but is scoring plenty for Hamburg, Doyle, who couldn’t get a game at Hamburg but walked straight into the City side, and Collins, who had come from a mid-ranking Bundesliga 2 team but looked comfortably good enough for the Championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
I don’t believe we can simply say with any confidence that Bundesliga 2 is weaker than the Championship (especially this season), and I reckon there were plenty of factors involved in Glatzel’s struggles at Cardiff.
Yes, but it does rather make you look like someone who is trying to argue that Bundesliga 2 sides are full of mediocre Championship strikers who’ll score shedloads because all of the defenders they come up against are donkeys, but the midfielders are so good that an England under 21 international midfielder barely gets a kick - doesn’t really add up does it.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
This debate about relative standards comes up from time to time, and of course there is no definitive answer. However having watched St Pauli a few times in the last 12 months I think this assertion is probably correct. FWIW.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
Why do we only have to consider players who've appeared for Cardiff or Hamburg? There are 17 other teams in Bundesliga 2 and 23 other teams in the Championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
Weren't you arguing in another thread that Collins hadn't played enough games for us before he got injured to know how good he is?
It doesn't add up because it's a straw man that you've created and not my argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Towards the end of his time here Glatzel was bullied off pretty much every ball.
I supported Glatzel but even I got tired of him towards the end as we simply didn't have the style of play to allow him to score in the only way he could.
Even if he was 'OK' in the air now, when was the last time we saw a decent cross.
We're crap, and we were crap then too.
Apparently he looked comfortably good enough for the Championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman
You think Glatzel is crap and argue that his scoring rate of around six in every ten games is solely down to the poor defenders he comes up against, yet you can offer no explanation as to why a good quality Championship level midfielder couldn’t get a game in Glatzel’s team - why does this not represent an accurate summary of what you’ve said at various stages of this thread? Why not just accept that this subject is not as straightforward as the Glatzel is rubbish, end of argument line you’ve been peddling?Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
I have watched quite a bit of B2 for several seasons and I think it's comfortably on par with the championship on every level.
This exact debate was on here several months ago but why not have a bit of a Grundenhagen Day.
I don’t know of any other players who have featured in both leagues in recent times, but if you do then I bow to your greater knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
As for Collins, my argument is that we hadn’t seen enough of him to declare him a top player by Championship standards, which some seem keen to do. However, I thought he looked easily good enough to play regularly in this division. Didn’t you?
I thought so. Do you have a different view?Quote:
Originally Posted by LeningradCowboy
Totally agree with this, nothing to choose between the two leagues. Probably the two strongest second divisions in Europe for strength in depth. It’s full of ex Bundsliga & historic clubsQuote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime
I think it would be difficult for anyone to argue the Championship is overflowing with quality this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Parrot