-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
+ the native hipster
non binary, but plays for a girls team so happy with female when it suits her
I guess this was a reply to my post
you could look at it that way
but
when " they " started playing football, " they " were a girl, and " they " are still physically a girl ( not taking any hormones ), Playing football is a massive plus for " them " in a rather mundane life, so to me, it really does no harm to anyone if " they " play football and it makes " them " happy while not identifing as a boy or girl, it really is no Drama
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperBluebirds91
Having read through this post it’s obvious that some people completely get what trans is and others who are trying to understand/be thoughtful and that’s great to see. I can also see that there’s some people who don’t get it or don’t want to.
The trouble is there’s a lot of negative misinformation and anti trans campaign going on and it really doesn’t help in terms of helping people to understand. Campaign wise these people target vulnerable minority groups and it happened to gay people years ago but thankfully over time things are changing. The problem comes when people deliberately go out of their way to cause harm whether verbal or physical to trans people and there’s the issue but this says more about that person. Sounds crazy but trans people are currently being used as a scapegoat in a culture war hence all the rubbish about the bathroom debate - trans people just need to pee like everyone else.
I should mention at this point that I am trans myself so I have first hand experience (Female to male transition) with these issues. I can’t speak for every trans person but personally it is traumatic going back as early as I can remember. I would just go about my business as a young lad and suddenly someone would call me a girls name….it’s mortifying. It’s the constant reminders that you are supposed to be a girl that’s hard. Then I reach my teens - I just assumed I’d grow up big muscular and strong with a beard but kept being reminded every time I looked in the mirror …….you are curvy and your chest is developing! You can bear a child - It’s horrendous. This is why so many trans people self harm and even take their own lives. On top of this you have then got hatred in society but some people. Basically I just tried to navigate my way through life the best I can but then I am faced with …….you aren’t a man you’re a women by people - that really cuts deep.
All I can say is to try and put yourselves in that situation, imagine being called and told you are women when you don’t feel you are inside and imagine looking in the mirror and you have female body parts. It goes way beyond what clothes you want to wear or the colour of your t shirt etc - it’s completely about how you feel inside. For people who are not trans, there is never a reason to challenge who you are because everything aligns. But as a trans person when there is a mismatch or an alignment problem between how you are wired and what body parts you have, it’s very difficult.
In terms of pronouns though Icompletely understand and I’m pretty sure most trans people know that it’s hard to adjust to and making mistakes is just human.it’s absolutely fine. Obviously if someone kept doing it constantly then yes it may become awkward but no trans person I know would worry if it is a genuine mistake. To be honest even trans people, and I’ve done it myself, have made these mistakes and it can take time to adjust.
All I can say is just to give it a go. If you say something by accident just say oh sorry and correct it and move on….no harm done :-) The problem lies where people deliberately call someone the opposite or wrong pronoun to what they are or refuse to acknowledge that being trans even exists. If people are unsure there is absolutely no harm in asking or if it feels too awkward to ask just call the person by their name until it becomes more clear. I would think the pronoun ‘it’ is very offensive HOWEVER, I was aware of someone using it as their pronoun once so it’s individual and unique really.
Basically gender is a spectrum and where the majority of people sit on the binary of either male or female, some people don’t. They may feel they are somewhere in between or actually feel they don’t identify with any gender whatsoever ever. I realise it’s very hard to take this in if you weren’t aware of this before but it’s important to realise it’s not new,trans people have been around for a long long time but there’s just more words and ways to describe things now which helps trans people but can be confusing to people who aren’t.
The main pronouns I come across are basically he/him, she/her, they/them (often used by people who are nonbinary or come along the spectrum somewhere other than male or female) but there are others too but it can be difficult to learn them all and take it all in so I basicallly would say as long as you are aware of the above 3 then if a person differs from these they will probably just say so.
Many workplaces now have policies in place to cater for different pronouns. It maybe hard for some people to adjust to it but I can say that it isn’t as hard as it is for the trans person in that workplace.
I really hope the above helps and hopefully it hasn’t come across as abit condescending or anything. If people don’t want to learn about it, it’s absolutely fine no one can be forced into reading about this but they are important life issues and you never know one day you could have a best mate, a partner or even a child who is trans. I am certainly not an alien from out of space but the way I see it, when I was made in the factory, they ran out of the correct body parts that day and had to give me the opposite.
Thanks for your contribution and ignore those in this thread who aren't able to conduct themselves in an intelligent debate without descending to personal insults. Unfortunately, such people usually end up dominating thread and intelligent debate goes down the pan - but reading of your perspective is of interest to most thinking people on here, I would imagine.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Thanks for writing that, superbluebird. There will always be some who think their own narrow view of the world is the only one that exists and everyone else is simply wrong, such as on this thread, but most people are very open to reading first-hand accounts like yours.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Perhaps the post of the year, as early as it is, thanks SuperBluebird, very enlightening :thumbup:
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperBluebirds91
Having read through this post it’s obvious that some people completely get what trans is and others who are trying to understand/be thoughtful and that’s great to see. I can also see that there’s some people who don’t get it or don’t want to.
The trouble is there’s a lot of negative misinformation and anti trans campaign going on and it really doesn’t help in terms of helping people to understand. Campaign wise these people target vulnerable minority groups and it happened to gay people years ago but thankfully over time things are changing. The problem comes when people deliberately go out of their way to cause harm whether verbal or physical to trans people and there’s the issue but this says more about that person. Sounds crazy but trans people are currently being used as a scapegoat in a culture war hence all the rubbish about the bathroom debate - trans people just need to pee like everyone else.
I should mention at this point that I am trans myself so I have first hand experience (Female to male transition) with these issues. I can’t speak for every trans person but personally it is traumatic going back as early as I can remember. I would just go about my business as a young lad and suddenly someone would call me a girls name….it’s mortifying. It’s the constant reminders that you are supposed to be a girl that’s hard. Then I reach my teens - I just assumed I’d grow up big muscular and strong with a beard but kept being reminded every time I looked in the mirror …….you are curvy and your chest is developing! You can bear a child - It’s horrendous. This is why so many trans people self harm and even take their own lives. On top of this you have then got hatred in society but some people. Basically I just tried to navigate my way through life the best I can but then I am faced with …….you aren’t a man you’re a women by people - that really cuts deep.
All I can say is to try and put yourselves in that situation, imagine being called and told you are women when you don’t feel you are inside and imagine looking in the mirror and you have female body parts. It goes way beyond what clothes you want to wear or the colour of your t shirt etc - it’s completely about how you feel inside. For people who are not trans, there is never a reason to challenge who you are because everything aligns. But as a trans person when there is a mismatch or an alignment problem between how you are wired and what body parts you have, it’s very difficult.
In terms of pronouns though Icompletely understand and I’m pretty sure most trans people know that it’s hard to adjust to and making mistakes is just human.it’s absolutely fine. Obviously if someone kept doing it constantly then yes it may become awkward but no trans person I know would worry if it is a genuine mistake. To be honest even trans people, and I’ve done it myself, have made these mistakes and it can take time to adjust.
All I can say is just to give it a go. If you say something by accident just say oh sorry and correct it and move on….no harm done :-) The problem lies where people deliberately call someone the opposite or wrong pronoun to what they are or refuse to acknowledge that being trans even exists. If people are unsure there is absolutely no harm in asking or if it feels too awkward to ask just call the person by their name until it becomes more clear. I would think the pronoun ‘it’ is very offensive HOWEVER, I was aware of someone using it as their pronoun once so it’s individual and unique really.
Basically gender is a spectrum and where the majority of people sit on the binary of either male or female, some people don’t. They may feel they are somewhere in between or actually feel they don’t identify with any gender whatsoever ever. I realise it’s very hard to take this in if you weren’t aware of this before but it’s important to realise it’s not new,trans people have been around for a long long time but there’s just more words and ways to describe things now which helps trans people but can be confusing to people who aren’t.
The main pronouns I come across are basically he/him, she/her, they/them (often used by people who are nonbinary or come along the spectrum somewhere other than male or female) but there are others too but it can be difficult to learn them all and take it all in so I basicallly would say as long as you are aware of the above 3 then if a person differs from these they will probably just say so.
Many workplaces now have policies in place to cater for different pronouns. It maybe hard for some people to adjust to it but I can say that it isn’t as hard as it is for the trans person in that workplace.
I really hope the above helps and hopefully it hasn’t come across as abit condescending or anything. If people don’t want to learn about it, it’s absolutely fine no one can be forced into reading about this but they are important life issues and you never know one day you could have a best mate, a partner or even a child who is trans. I am certainly not an alien from out of space but the way I see it, when I was made in the factory, they ran out of the correct body parts that day and had to give me the opposite.
Interesting.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
The same thing that happens now if a woman born as a woman doesn’t “play by the rules”. As you said, call the bouncer.
You think there’s never been a single incident of a woman coming onto another woman without consent?
A woman who was born a man with the strength and power of a man who has a history of sexual offences against women ....when he was a man ......you think this person should be allowed into women's toilets , changing rooms etc ?
A woman coming onto a woman without consent of course happens but this person through changing is able to go into places she couldn't as a male
It's clearly a very dodgy situation
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Why on earth is this thread on this forum? And really - is there any justification for all the foul words being bandied between certain posters?
Some people have threads removed for far less.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperBluebirds91
Having read through this post it’s obvious that some people completely get what trans is and others who are trying to understand/be thoughtful and that’s great to see. I can also see that there’s some people who don’t get it or don’t want to.
The trouble is there’s a lot of negative misinformation and anti trans campaign going on and it really doesn’t help in terms of helping people to understand. Campaign wise these people target vulnerable minority groups and it happened to gay people years ago but thankfully over time things are changing. The problem comes when people deliberately go out of their way to cause harm whether verbal or physical to trans people and there’s the issue but this says more about that person. Sounds crazy but trans people are currently being used as a scapegoat in a culture war hence all the rubbish about the bathroom debate - trans people just need to pee like everyone else.
I should mention at this point that I am trans myself so I have first hand experience (Female to male transition) with these issues. I can’t speak for every trans person but personally it is traumatic going back as early as I can remember. I would just go about my business as a young lad and suddenly someone would call me a girls name….it’s mortifying. It’s the constant reminders that you are supposed to be a girl that’s hard. Then I reach my teens - I just assumed I’d grow up big muscular and strong with a beard but kept being reminded every time I looked in the mirror …….you are curvy and your chest is developing! You can bear a child - It’s horrendous. This is why so many trans people self harm and even take their own lives. On top of this you have then got hatred in society but some people. Basically I just tried to navigate my way through life the best I can but then I am faced with …….you aren’t a man you’re a women by people - that really cuts deep.
All I can say is to try and put yourselves in that situation, imagine being called and told you are women when you don’t feel you are inside and imagine looking in the mirror and you have female body parts. It goes way beyond what clothes you want to wear or the colour of your t shirt etc - it’s completely about how you feel inside. For people who are not trans, there is never a reason to challenge who you are because everything aligns. But as a trans person when there is a mismatch or an alignment problem between how you are wired and what body parts you have, it’s very difficult.
In terms of pronouns though Icompletely understand and I’m pretty sure most trans people know that it’s hard to adjust to and making mistakes is just human.it’s absolutely fine. Obviously if someone kept doing it constantly then yes it may become awkward but no trans person I know would worry if it is a genuine mistake. To be honest even trans people, and I’ve done it myself, have made these mistakes and it can take time to adjust.
All I can say is just to give it a go. If you say something by accident just say oh sorry and correct it and move on….no harm done :-) The problem lies where people deliberately call someone the opposite or wrong pronoun to what they are or refuse to acknowledge that being trans even exists. If people are unsure there is absolutely no harm in asking or if it feels too awkward to ask just call the person by their name until it becomes more clear. I would think the pronoun ‘it’ is very offensive HOWEVER, I was aware of someone using it as their pronoun once so it’s individual and unique really.
Basically gender is a spectrum and where the majority of people sit on the binary of either male or female, some people don’t. They may feel they are somewhere in between or actually feel they don’t identify with any gender whatsoever ever. I realise it’s very hard to take this in if you weren’t aware of this before but it’s important to realise it’s not new,trans people have been around for a long long time but there’s just more words and ways to describe things now which helps trans people but can be confusing to people who aren’t.
The main pronouns I come across are basically he/him, she/her, they/them (often used by people who are nonbinary or come along the spectrum somewhere other than male or female) but there are others too but it can be difficult to learn them all and take it all in so I basicallly would say as long as you are aware of the above 3 then if a person differs from these they will probably just say so.
Many workplaces now have policies in place to cater for different pronouns. It maybe hard for some people to adjust to it but I can say that it isn’t as hard as it is for the trans person in that workplace.
I really hope the above helps and hopefully it hasn’t come across as abit condescending or anything. If people don’t want to learn about it, it’s absolutely fine no one can be forced into reading about this but they are important life issues and you never know one day you could have a best mate, a partner or even a child who is trans. I am certainly not an alien from out of space but the way I see it, when I was made in the factory, they ran out of the correct body parts that day and had to give me the opposite.
I think the bathroom issue is quite a big one
You ask for respect and understanding , I think anyone who abuses trans people is not worth a response
You are of course correct .....everyone needs to wee ....but I think the opinions of women who have raised the issue of being in a rest room , bathroom , showers needs to be considered
Some would not be bothered at all but a significant number would feel very uncomfortable
With regard to your journey through life I completely respect that and i wouldn't have any time for people who don't feel the same
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maurice Swan
Why on earth is this thread on this forum? And really - is there any justification for all the foul words being bandied between certain posters?
Some people have threads removed for far less.
I think it's refreshing that these things can be discussed Mo
Life is full of wonderful colours
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I think it's refreshing that these things can be discussed Mo
Life is full of wonderful colours
On a FOOTBALL forum?
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maurice Swan
On a FOOTBALL forum?
its a bit of a general forum though
the other forum is for politics and the rubbish Sludge tends to post from time to time ( no offence Sludge )
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
This has of course become an unfortunate political football that some people use as a tool in culture wars and where their perhaps legitimate concerns are ignored, but fundementally this is about being a decent, respectful and tolerant person.
As SuperBluebirds excellent post demonstrates, these are deeply personal issues for some people and it's not hard to refer to people how they wish, and that's not a gender or pronoun thing, it's basic courtesy. It is also really important that people feel there is arena in which they can discuss the wider political issues if they so wish, but that doesn't change respect for people, whatever you may think about the big issues.
As I will always preach, live and let live, humans are diverse and it's great that people can live and flourish however they wish.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maurice Swan
Why on earth is this thread on this forum? And really - is there any justification for all the foul words being bandied between certain posters?
Some people have threads removed for far less.
Why not just focus on the issue instead of childish arguments.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maurice Swan
Why on earth is this thread on this forum? And really - is there any justification for all the foul words being bandied between certain posters?
Some people have threads removed for far less.
There are other posts in this forum about skis, rugby, darts, Las Vegas and the automotive industry - and this thread clearly indicates what the subect matter is and that it even affects football teams, as confirmed by one contributor on here. You can always not read the thread if you want to avoid the subject matter, of course.
As for the foul language and descent into insults: I think those posts should be removed and not the thread itself.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Having retired just over year and a half ago (and having only worked in the MoD for the previous few decades) I have a question about the use of personal pronouns in the workplace. Just before I left my job, my employer encouraged employees to insert their chosen personal pronouns in the straplines of their emails - and I wonder if anyone on here is aware of any disciplinary measures they have experienced or know of regarding certain colleagues not using them for the individuals concerned.
I don't have an agenda regarding this matter, as such, although referring to an individual as 'they' would not come easy.
I started a new job just before Christmas. I was "encouraged" to use personal pronouns in my signature. I used he/him but I wonder how I'd be treated if i used the opposite.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
A woman who was born a man with the strength and power of a man who has a history of sexual offences against women ....when he was a man ......you think this person should be allowed into women's toilets , changing rooms etc ?
A woman coming onto a woman without consent of course happens but this person through changing is able to go into places she couldn't as a male
It's clearly a very dodgy situation
A woman born a woman can have a history of sexual assault against women too. And it’s not like women are a homogeneous group that are all small and weak. Plenty of women could overpower other women and many men too without needing to have been born a man.
The solution is same in both scenarios. Get a bouncer.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
A woman born a woman can have a history of sexual assault against women too. And it’s not like women are a homogeneous group that are all small and weak. Plenty of women could overpower other women and many men too without needing to have been born a man.
The solution is same in both scenarios. Get a bouncer.
It clearly isn't
A man convicted of rape against women who trans into a woman is clearly a risk to women
JK Rowling got dogs abuse for saying the same
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blue matt
its a bit of a general forum though
the other forum is for politics and the rubbish Sludge tends to post from time to time ( no offence Sludge )
Metal Will Never Die
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
I started a new job just before Christmas. I was "encouraged" to use personal pronouns in my signature. I used he/him but I wonder how I'd be treated if i used the opposite.
What represents using the opposite?
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
It clearly isn't
A man convicted of rape against women who trans into a woman is clearly a risk to women
JK Rowling got dogs abuse for saying the same
And a woman convicted of rape against another woman isn't?
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperBluebirds91
The trouble is there’s a lot of negative misinformation and anti trans campaign going on and it really doesn’t help in terms of helping people to understand. Campaign wise these people target vulnerable minority groups and it happened to gay people years ago but thankfully over time things are changing. The problem comes when people deliberately go out of their way to cause harm whether verbal or physical to trans people and there’s the issue but this says more about that person. Sounds crazy but trans people are currently being used as a scapegoat in a culture war hence all the rubbish about the bathroom debate - trans people just need to pee like everyone else.
Good luck to you SB91, but while there are individuals who make unhelpful comments there is no "anti-trans campaign" as such. That's misinformation in itself.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
And a woman convicted of rape against another woman isn't?
Can a woman who cannot penetrate another woman with a penis she doesn't have be convicted of rape ?
If she can do you think your wife , partner , girlfriend on finding out a former man with a rape conviction , now trans into a woman , is at a party at the local social club and is using the same toilets as her ?
Would you be OK with that ? Would she , more importantly?
Respecting trans people in their day to day lives is very important but in some circumstances things have not been thought out
What about transvestites who in many cases have no feelings to transform ?
Are you and your partner OK with them going into the ladies room ?
A lot of women who have had bad experiences with men are not going to be happy with a transvestite , a drag queen , a trans person who still remains biologically a man etc being in the female toilets ....and that's before the issue of criminal sexual convictions are considered
Trans people must be respected but there are caveats that simply can't be brushed under the carpet
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maurice Swan
On a FOOTBALL forum?
Didn’t you start a thread about Mark Drakeford?
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
Didn’t you start a thread about Mark Drakeford?
He’s upset because of something that happened about a month ago. Needs to get over it.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
Didn’t you start a thread about Mark Drakeford?
Yes I did, and said I could not stand him, but sympathised with his loss. It was still deleted.
Should not have been posted here and am pretty sure it's the only non football thread I have ever started .
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maurice Swan
Yes I did, and said I could not stand him, but sympathised with his loss. It was still deleted.
Should not have been posted here and am pretty sure it's the only non football thread I have ever started .
Why does a non-football thread ire you so much? And why did you open it in the first place?
There is every opportunity to read up about Warnock's new job and the perilous state of the club on other threads.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Thanks for your kind comments and also from some people who obviously have questions. It’s probably better for me not to get too much into a debate about any of the issues as they could be harmful to me but also I don’t think it will resolve anything in a few posts. I also don’t have the energy but whatI will say is I’m just like anyone else. I get mad when city play bad, I cheer like we’ve just won the World Cup when we score a goal, I used swig beer in the canton stand and I need to pee in a toilet at half-time.
Women can be assaulted in a doctors office, a works office….basically anywhere, it has nothing to do with people who are transgender going into a toilet.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Can a woman who cannot penetrate another woman with a penis she doesn't have be convicted of rape ?
No because the UK legal definition of rape is completely outdated to the point where basically only men can be convicted of rape. In UK law rape is defined as penetration by a penis without the other person’s consent.
In my opinion I don’t see the difference between a man forcing his penis into someone, or a woman forcing her fingers or an object into someone. One would be considered rape and the other would be considered sexual assault.
I doubt my parter would be comfortable if she went into the bathroom and bumped into a MtoF who’d been convicted of rape. Likewise if she went in and bumped into a woman who’d been convicted of sexually assaulting someone.
Would you be comfortable going for a piss and knowing the man stood next to you was a convicted gay rapist? Or had been convicted of GBH? Etc. I wouldn’t be personally. But public toilets are just that, public.
In the latest census 0.5% of the respondents said they identified as a different gender to the one they were born with. Let’s say roughly 0.25% of the UK are MtoF.
You’ve created a fake, hyper specific scenario that is extremely unrealistic and in doing so are ignoring the fact women can sexually assault other women.
I don’t think the trans debate is that simple or clear cut but this example you’ve created is akin to saying people convicted of a knife crime 10 years ago shouldn’t be allowed into B+Q because they sell sharp blades.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperBluebirds91
Thanks for your kind comments and also from some people who obviously have questions. It’s probably better for me not to get too much into a debate about any of the issues as they could be harmful to me but also I don’t think it will resolve anything in a few posts. I also don’t have the energy but whatI will say is I’m just like anyone else. I get mad when city play bad, I cheer like we’ve just won the World Cup when we score a goal, I used swig beer in the canton stand and I need to pee in a toilet at half-time.
Women can be assaulted in a doctors office, a works office….basically anywhere, it has nothing to do with people who are transgender going into a toilet.
They can but if a trans person who was a man but now a woman is able to access women's toilets , changing rooms , showers etc than that clearly gives such a person with a propensity to assault women a clear opportunity
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
I think it's comparable to foreign people calling you "English" when you are Welsh or Scottish.
It's jarring/offensive/factually incorrect.
I worked with someone who is non-binary. I TRIED to refer to them as "they-them-their" because I'm not a complete cnut.
I slipped up occasionally but did my best to adjust.
.........I guess it was the same for people who would use racial slurs or (casual) sexist language and had to watch their tongue when such things became unacceptable in civilised society.
I never use the word "****" or "Chinky" or refer to my partner as the "ball and chain" and I don't think it inhibits my ability to express myself adequately. Nowadays, I try to avoid things like "man-made" or "policeman" ....it's not that tough.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SuperBluebirds91
Thanks for your kind comments and also from some people who obviously have questions. It’s probably better for me not to get too much into a debate about any of the issues as they could be harmful to me but also I don’t think it will resolve anything in a few posts. I also don’t have the energy but whatI will say is I’m just like anyone else. I get mad when city play bad, I cheer like we’ve just won the World Cup when we score a goal, I used swig beer in the canton stand and I need to pee in a toilet at half-time.
Women can be assaulted in a doctors office, a works office….basically anywhere, it has nothing to do with people who are transgender going into a toilet.
Good choice about not having the energy, with some in here you’d be wasting your time.
Thank you for sharing your experience, truly enlightening
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
They can but if a trans person who was a man but now a woman is able to access women's toilets , changing rooms , showers etc than that clearly gives such a person with a propensity to assault women a clear opportunity
I don’t think a rapist is that bothered that they shouldn’t be in the women’s changing rooms. A sign on the door isn’t going to change their mind.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
A woman who was born a man with the strength and power of a man who has a history of sexual offences against women ....when he was a man ......you think this person should be allowed into women's toilets , changing rooms etc ?
A woman coming onto a woman without consent of course happens but this person through changing is able to go into places she couldn't as a male
It's clearly a very dodgy situation
There is a fella who goes to a pub in an area near to where I live. They won't give him the op. I'm not sure if I call the person a them in this instance as they've not had any work..it's all too confusing tbh..anyway, they go in the pub from time to time and even though they are addressed by their preferred female name and wear women's clothing they've been told that they must use the men's toilet. That's not discrimination, they've not had an op. This person chooses to ignore this request and uses the women's, the people in there seem ok with it which is why I suppose it goes on, but it only takes one "non regular" to go into this pub and use the toilet and freak out when they see a man there in women's clothing. I have a teenage daughter and I'd be absolutely raging if they used the toilet at the same time.
Some people may not see the difference, as the person identifies as a woman, but for me they've been turned down for the op, whatever the reason may be and will never get to the point where they are fully changed from a man to a woman, I mean what is the correct way to go about this? It's all good a couple of pisshead locals giving it the ok but should it happen?
If they'd had the op they'd have no problem in there, but I know of people who aren't comfortable with the situation (that don't use the pub at the same time)
It's not wanting to discriminate, but what would be the correct way to go about this issue? Because to the naked eye it's a man dressed up as a woman with toilet tissue in their bra, using the women's toilet. That makes me uncomfortable, given my daughters age, and she has been in there at the same time in the past.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Maurice Swan
Yes I did, and said I could not stand him, but sympathised with his loss. It was still deleted.
Should not have been posted here and am pretty sure it's the only non football thread I have ever started .
You still banging on about your deleted thread. I've had loads get on with it..
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
jesus christ! the ignorance in this thread is high.
Do any of you know any transgender people and you are aware that it's not only men that transition.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Canton Kev
No because the UK legal definition of rape is completely outdated to the point where basically only men can be convicted of rape. In UK law rape is defined as penetration by a penis without the other person’s consent.
In my opinion I don’t see the difference between a man forcing his penis into someone, or a woman forcing her fingers or an object into someone. One would be considered rape and the other would be considered sexual assault.
I doubt my parter would be comfortable if she went into the bathroom and bumped into a MtoF who’d been convicted of rape. Likewise if she went in and bumped into a woman who’d been convicted of sexually assaulting someone.
Would you be comfortable going for a piss and knowing the man stood next to you was a convicted gay rapist? Or had been convicted of GBH? Etc. I wouldn’t be personally. But public toilets are just that, public.
In the latest census 0.5% of the respondents said they identified as a different gender to the one they were born with. Let’s say roughly 0.25% of the UK are MtoF.
You’ve created a fake, hyper specific scenario that is extremely unrealistic and in doing so are ignoring the fact women can sexually assault other women.
I don’t think the trans debate is that simple or clear cut but this example you’ve created is akin to saying people convicted of a knife crime 10 years ago shouldn’t be allowed into B+Q because they sell sharp blades.
Good luck in defending that if it comes to court
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ToTaL ITK
jesus christ! the ignorance in this thread is high.
Do any of you know any transgender people and you are aware that it's not only men that transition.
Yes , woman in her late twenties who is called chloe
She's changed from a woman
Nice person
Don't know anyone who has ever given her hassle
Transphobia definitely exists and maybe always will but most people are open minded these days or alternatively couldn't care less
JK Rowling has made very salient arguments and discussions about these situations , she has recieved death threats and educated university lecturers have been hounded out of their jobs
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NYCBlue
I started a new job just before Christmas. I was "encouraged" to use personal pronouns in my signature. I used he/him but I wonder how I'd be treated if i used the opposite.
Yeah same in the industry I work in, I find it all a bit pathetic if I'm honest, it's the prenouns that jar me. Why do you have to point it out to everyone.
And before anyone starts my nephew is a trans kid so as a family we have first hand experience and it's also painful for some family members.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Yes , woman in her late twenties who is called chloe
She's changed from a woman
Nice person
Don't know anyone who has ever given her hassle
Transphobia definitely exists and maybe always will but most people are open minded these days or alternatively couldn't care less
JK Rowling has made very salient arguments and discussions about these situations , she has recieved death threats and educated university lecturers have been hounded out of their jobs
Fair play .Hope all goes well for Chloe
It's a huge decision to transition because of the family and friends pressure. I know 3 that have done it. Every story is different and some of them are heartbreaking.
-
Re: Personal pronouns in the workplace
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ToTaL ITK
Fair play .Hope all goes well for Chloe
It's a huge decision to transition because of the family and friends pressure. I know 3 that have done it. Every story is different and some of them are heartbreaking.
Chloe has learned that some pubs and their regulars are not as welcoming as others
I told her pubs are crap full stop but there you go