Not denying the UK car industry is in the doldrums (which Brexit has exacerbated), but this thread was specifically about Ford shedding jobs (which has nothing to do with Brexit)Quote:
Originally Posted by az city
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Not denying the UK car industry is in the doldrums (which Brexit has exacerbated), but this thread was specifically about Ford shedding jobs (which has nothing to do with Brexit)Quote:
Originally Posted by az city
Honda closed
JLR sales down around 80% plus now partially moved to Slovakia
Toyota & Mini sales down
JLR engine plant at Wolverhampton, stopped buying engines from Bridgend
Shortages, chip sets, tft, lcds, glass, steel, wood, packaging A pallet has increased from £6 to £11. The list is endless
We used to export around 70% into Europe, Germany, France, Belgium, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Slovakia plus
The majority of that is now made in Poland and our UK factory living off scraps from JLR & Mini
As someone who supported Brexit, there were plenty of levers that could have been pulled to benefit certain sectors. There were plenty of deals that could have been done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Parrot
the problem being that COVID completely took our focus away and then various other factors combined in it being incredibly more difficult. Who knows how Brexit would have panned out if that was our sole focus over the last few years.
However, it has become a complete shit show so far and won’t improve before the next GE.
A reminder here that from 2016 to 2021, France, Italy,Germany and the UK all have seen car production fall between 43 and 49%.
Clearly there is something else going on here.
Bridgend Ford closure :Quote:
Originally Posted by az city
The simple question is, if Brexit had never happened, would this decision be different, and the answer is no.”
In its official announcement, Ford said the proposed action was a "necessary step" to support Ford’s "global business redesign" and is part of the company’s strategy to create a more efficient and focused business in Europe.
In common with other vehicle-makers, the company is struggling to reshape its business as the world moves increasingly away from petrol and diesel and more toward electric and hybrid-powered vehicles.
Honda workers in Swindon are facing an uncertain future, the Nissan plant in Sunderland has missed out on making new models and Toyota, based in Derbyshire, has warned of the impact of Brexit on future production.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-06-06/...-plant-in-2020
You think Boris and Co focus was on Covid? :hehe: Was that between the meetings he missed? The parties? Doing out his flat?Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
Hang on, I thought Brexit was ‘oven ready’?
This guy doesn’t think much of Boris during Covid eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
https://twitter.com/lozzafox/status/...oU1PMa2q-bKFXA
Remainers scuppered a good deal, Dominic Grieve, Yvette Cooper, and the rest were in cahoots with the EU to try and stop Brexit however they could and let the EU know what to expect and negotiate as bad a deal as they could to try and stop the wishes of the Country.Quote:
Originally Posted by WJ99mobile
It's a bad deal, remainers have got their wish to leave the EU without all the benefits we should have been getting, they screwed us over, and we'll just have to get on with it.
ExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
He was they were on the telly every night, it was all we heard about for a year or more, Covid was a massive distraction, and caused a massive overreaction too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
Spot onQuote:
Originally Posted by HiVis
its a massive investment ( $11 Billion ) and the US really are backing the EV movement now, the biggest site will be 6 square miles in sizeQuote:
Originally Posted by HiVis
He's got a point. My feeling is Covid and lockdown exacerbated the already prevailing issues of lack of mental health services, NHS waiting lists, cost of living crisis and tanking an already fragile economy. Still the government had a handle on all them issues and were doing great addressing them!Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Whether or not leaving Covid run rampant through the UK and increasing the amount of Covid deaths seems incredibly callous? It was Boris Johnson's initial preference mind.
The rules were absurd although the majority managed to abide by them. I'll assume they managed it for the greater good? Obviously, Downing Street experienced difficulties in sticking to social distancing. Surprisingly, as all their focus was on Covid.
That lad in the clip still uses a waanking sock.
That lad in the clip still uses a waanking sock.- irrelevant though he’s entitled to vote , and the women s******ing behind are a lot older than him as well but are acting very very childishly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
The WAG are proposing to lower the voting age to 16 as well :hehe:
Ah its the remainers fault Brexit has been a disaster.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
At the end of the day the country that had the loosest restrictions in Europe (Sweden) did much better than many who did far harsher restrictions.
There's was a balance to be had and we need to remember what was being clamoured for at the time. My opinion looking back is that most countries handled this badly in the end. After the initial first wave, the focus should have been on protecting the vulnerable and getting society back to normal asap. The long term consequences on many individuals and (in my opinion) the general cohesiveness of society are severe and long term. Specific individual circumstances aside I'm not sure I really know anyone who is happier in a post covid world than before it, and if anyone is it is those in bigger houses in wealthier areas nearing the middle or end of their careers.
Ultimately I don't think we got the balance right and young people are 'owed something' here, almost like working people were 'owed something' after WW2.
I feel your pain.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
If only Dominic Grieve and Yvette Cooper were not running the government it would have been sunlit uplands all the way!
Damn those pesky Remainers! :hehe:
I wasn't questioning his right to vote? You're correct about the women although they're entitled to an opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Strange you of all people are defending the youth vote as you usually dismiss anything from uhmmm let's say Greta Thunberg as the thoughts of a trained, deranged patsy, voicing the opinions of those who exploit her for their own motivations for everyone to live off the land and dance around the sun each morning.
I'm using artistic licence taken there buddy.
In regards to giving 16 year olds the vote, I have serious reservations about the individuals of that age who will vote.
They should be out taking as much MDMA, amphetamine, alcohol and shaaging as possible. Never done my generation any harm.
It's obvious, If Tan is negotiating to sell the club and Dalman is ringing the other party giving them the ammo they need to negotiate a better deal for the other party, we end up with a shit deal, and Dalman will have shafted Tan who is supposed to be representing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
It doesn't bother me I'll always be fine, but it will make life worse for people who are already having a tough time, remainers stopped a decent deal, and there will be people here saying it's sad about poor people in food banks and then laughing saying it's great that Brexit isn't working and how brilliant it is that remainers helped the EU shaft us, they can't see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
Strange that you advocate drug taking as the “norm” when clearly it isn’t. I’ve lost too many friends from taking shit (probably people you knew) and plenty have had a reduction in the quality of life they lead. Each to their own though, as you say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
I don't disagree that it's a shit show and people will suffer.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
I just think you should own your own shit show and not blame the people who didn't vote for it, were not elected into government to implement it, and have been outside the tent since the referendum.
'Remainers helped the EU shaft us' is dishonest, delusional and a bit pathetic. Still, if that fantasy helps you through this mess....
It's got nothing to do with me, I didn't vote to leave, and I'm not an MP.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
The UK was trying to negotiate a good deal, but certain MPs were trying to stop it and had meetings with EU MPs, all these delays and efforts to stop it resulted in a landslide victory for Boris and a last-minute stop-gap poor deal.
If you can't see that you are deluded.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...xit-delay.html
Sorry about those who have passed butt. Been there, done that. I'm guilty of trivialising what the 'youth' get up to or perhaps my own youth?Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
I'd still wonder of any 16 year old who decides to vote instead of going up the park for a Diamond White and a fumble.
It says more about me than the youngsters I know.
OK. I'm deluded.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
A lot of my friends supported Brexit (from a Dennis Skinner position) but most were like me and thought it was an act of jingoistic self harm, that was then mismanaged by the Brexiteer government that was elected to Get It Done. That opposition politicians and the EU refused to join in the self harm is not a surprise or an excuse for what has been done (or not done) since 2016.
It is fair to reference Covid as a reason for delay, but the rest of it is entirely the responsibility and fault of the Tory government.
I meant to add, I am blaming remainer MP's and pointing out to hardened remainers that are desperate to say it's Brexit fault at every opportunity that it's not a laughing matter, some people are suffering and 90% of the time after WAR in Ukrine, an energy crisis and Covid it's nothing to do with Brexit anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
We'll have to agree to disagree, it was an impossible task, so many MP's from either party decided to feck it up and make sure it wouldn't work, well they have got their wish, we've got a half-done crap deal, which will have damaged the economy, at the worst possible time, right before Covid and Russia's War with Ukraine.Quote:
Originally Posted by jon1959
It was an impossible task because nobody ever defined what 'leave' meant. Years were spent arguing over whether it meant 'no deal' or varying degrees of some deal. Leavers were undecided in what leave meant. Some leavers would have voted remain if the option was a hard Brexit. We also had arguments over whether MPs should support their constituents or the "will of the people". I remember asking people that, if Brexit would guarantee significant job losses in a constituency, what should the local MP support?Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
Remain only had 1 option - remain. Leave had many different options. The leave campaign should have spelt out from the start what Brexit was going to mean, rather than leave and sort things out afterwards. The leave campaign wouldn't accept that as it would have definitely lost them the referendum.
Thats true it was a daft decision to have the vote in the first place!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Listen up
The absolute monumental feck up that was the vote , those who voted to leave and the government who brought it all in
Tough luck on those who voted leave if you get it up the arris but nothing to do with me or anyone else who voted to remain
Your vote , you voted leave
If it screws your life up deal with it
Don't blame us
Switch off the lights
I thought I had seen peak revisionism around the Covid years but some of this thread tops that.
When we voted to leave the EU a number of types of deal were available.
The first thing the May government did was rule out being part of the Single Market or a Customs Union. This immediately limited the options on the table.
To resolve the issue of a land border on the island of Ireland there were then two options. A backstop that kept the UK in the customs union until a technological or other solution was available to preserve the integrity of the Single Market or a border for certain goods between GB and Northern Ireland.
May pushed the former, had people like Johnson resign and her Party forced out of office. Johnson pulled his oven ready deal out of the hat (the GB/NI border), agreed a deal with Brussels which included detaching the UK from the EU to the widest extent to supposedly allow the greatest opportunity to negotiate new trade deals with the rest of the world. This introduced friction in trade between GB and continental EU.
This was voted overwhelmingly through Parliament and Johnson won a landslide on the back of it, not least because he promised people like the DUP and hardliners in his party there would be no checks between GB and NI when this was patently not the case (ie not for the first time he lied through his teeth to gain a short term advantage.
The last couple of years has been taken up with dealing with the consequences of this shabby deal, particularly as the DUP soon realised they had been duped. Where Dominic Grieve and Yvette Cooper fit into this Tory/ERG owned shitshow, other than voting against May's deal is anyone's guess.
I often sit from afar and chuckle at these types of threads on here
This is a Ford story and whether it goes the likes of Woolworths, Polaroid and blockbuster.
A relatively new entrant has taken over a valuable revenue stream in the very important mid to upper ranges; Tesla. Fords attachment to internal combustion engines has almost been negligent, they haven't been caught napping they have been unconscious.
Being unashamed "America First" is a hail mary shout for patriotism in a competitive domestic market and the new entrant is also American and all the new subsidies are going in that direction.
Brexit has nothing to do with it.
Outside the battery, electric cars are pretty easy to assemble, I can see a lot of smaller local, national manufacturers setting up pretty quickly and the landscape will look very different and Ford won't be part of that.
Welcome back British Leyland :hehe:
Good point that the same could apply to BMW, Audi, etc, it looks like Kia and Hyundai and going to grab much larger slices of the electric market and I'm even starting to see electric MG's everywhere lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by llan bluebird
The electric MG is exactly what I was eluding to, everywhere. If you take automomous driving out, its just a glorifeid milk float.
The Japanese owned the Cathode Ray Tube TV market from the 80 to the early 2000's but hung on too long to them, then the Koreans through LG and Samsung can charging through with LED,LCD's and Plasma and the Japanese have never really recovered. TV's are relatively cheap nowadays and generally either of those two makes.
No reason why UK PLC couldn't make batteries and assemble cars pretty quickly here.
Thank you. In other words nobody knew what leave meant as there were several leave options.Quote:
Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays
What should have happened was that the public should have been given a list of what would happen as a result of leaving, not spending years deciding if this or the other should or shouldn't happen.
If the option presented to voters was a hard, no-deal Brexit, leave would have lost as a good percentage of leave voters wanted to remain in the customs union. If the option presented to voters was a soft Brexit, I suspect some no-dealers might not have bothered voting.
Either way, exactly what Brexit should entail should have been presented to the public before the referendum and then acted on, not the shit show we had of trying to work out what to do.
Great post, why are they so expensive though still?Quote:
Originally Posted by llan bluebird
I suppose the comparison with TVs works well, they were extortionate at first but the price came down very quickly as the technology advanced and the manufacturing was progressively upscaled.
That con man Johnson shouldn’t have had a big red double decker driving around with posters on it promising £350m a week to the NHS if we left. That prick Farage shouldn’t have been telling all and sundry that our borders would be closed to interlopers if we left. The whole leave vote campaign was a huge lie, shame on them...........but they have no shame, do they!!
There may be a number of reasons why UK PLC is unable to grasp the opportunity you suggest.Quote:
Originally Posted by llan bluebird
Firstly, the failure of BritishVolt and the unwillingness of UK PLC to intervene may act as a disincentive to other potential market entrants. Nissan has invested in both a production plant and a battery manufacturer which seems a more stable platform.
British start-ups may be uncompetitive. As you said earlier the rush to green in the US is being driven by Biden's massive subsidies and incentives to manufacture in the US. The EU is sure to follow suit. There is every chance that the UK will be squeezed out both on price and capital whilst both economic superpowers protect and take advantage of their vast internal markets. It is also possible that British engineering talent and ingenuity will be plundered by those markets for our loss and their profit.
There is a significant force in the UK politic and media that sees the transition to green as a threat not an opportunity. We get a flavour of that resistance on here regularly.
In the midst of this the Tory govt is rushing headlong to burn as much EU derived regulation as possible with little inkling what to put in its place. The further that regulation diverts from that supporting the EU single market the more frictional the trade barriers become and the more unlikely that start up electronic car manufacturers will have a viable business plan. Perhaps we can flog them to Australia and New Zealand.
Tell us EXACTLY what you wanted from the Brexit deal (that you didn't get in the negotiations).Quote:
Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue
There's a big reason: Brexit. The UK cut itself off from its biggest market, created strangulated logistics chains, and, non-tariff barriers. The UK is too small a market for global players to base any strategy on.Quote:
Originally Posted by llan bluebird