Thousands of drivers caught speeding a week after camera activated on main Cardiff road

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I'm confused, unless you are saying there should be no punishment for speeding.

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I'm saying that they have changed the definition of speeding.

I think murder should be punishable by a couple of decades in prison, but I don't think murder should be refined as slapping someone in the face.

So the issue is not the principle of some fines for dangerous speeding, it's that going over 20 in north Cardiff is not dangerous

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I'm saying that they have changed the definition of speeding.

I think murder should be punishable by a couple of decades in prison, but I don't think murder should be refined as slapping someone in the face.

So the issue is not the principle of some fines for dangerous speeding, it's that going over 20 in north Cardiff is not dangerous

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Ah, so there should be no punishment for speeding if it's not dangerous?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Ah, so there should be no punishment for speeding if it's not dangerous?

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No. Because the law should not be designed to punish innocent people.

If an offence has no victim, why punish them?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

No. Because the law should not be designed to punish innocent people.

If an offence has no victim, why punish them?

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Punishment for things like exceeding the speed limit is better than waiting for an accident to enable punishment.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Punishment for things like exceeding the speed limit is better than waiting for an accident to enable punishment.

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well put.:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by splott parker

And this is the important sentence, forget journeys taking a touch longer (I doubt that they do mind around a busy city), forget emissions or whatever, the very real chance that a hell of a lot less damage would be caused to a vehicle at 20 rather than above. But the statistic that outstrips everything is the likelihood of survival of a person being hit by a vehicle travelling at a low speed is considerably enhanced. In fact the actual chance of a motorist colliding with a pedestrian is very low given the increased reaction time. Leaving yourself a little bit longer for your journey is bugger all really.

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Do you know how many less assaults would occur if we closed pubs at 11pm? Do you know how much more public funds would be released for schools if away fans were banned from football etc?

It's about balance, and 20mph is artificially, almost dangerously slow on some streets

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Do you know how many less assaults would occur if we closed pubs at 11pm? Do you know how much more public funds would be released for schools if away fans were banned from football etc?

It's about balance, and 20mph is artificially, almost dangerously slow on some streets

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Veering off the subject a bit there. ‘Whataboutism’ can be used in nigh on every debate and is classic derailment.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

No. Because the law should not be designed to punish innocent people.

If an offence has no victim, why punish them?

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I've read some bollocks on here over the years and that's right up there with the worst.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

If an offence has no victim, why punish them?

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Fecks sake. Seriously??

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Veering off the subject a bit there. ‘Whataboutism’ can be used in nigh on every debate and is classic derailment.

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It's not whataboutism. It's about taking the argument that anything that makes us 'safer' should automatically become law with punishment and fines imposed

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

I've read some bollocks on here over the years and that's right up there with the worst.

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How? I am arguing that, in this example, going 23mph on a wide street is victim less and such should not be punished.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

Do you automatically support every single new law enacted? I doubt it.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

How? I am arguing that, in this example, going 23mph on a wide street is victim less and such should not be punished.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

Do you automatically support every single new law enacted? I doubt it.

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Ok. Fair enough. You have a fragrant relationship with the law. If you disagree with it, you shouldn't be punished. That's not really how it works, though.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Ok. Fair enough. You have a fragrant relationship with the law. If you disagree with it, you shouldn't be punished. That's not really how it works, though.

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We live in a democracy, we are allowed to disagree with laws and debate their usefulness. In this case I think it's stupid and if I think a law is stupid then I don't think breaking it should be punishable.

I am not disputing that it IS punhishable. I know two people who broke it. Neither of them have more respect for it as a result.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

We live in a democracy, we are allowed to disagree with laws and debate their usefulness.

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It doesn't also mean we can break them and claim we didn't deserve to be punished because we disagreed with them.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

It doesn't also mean we can break them and claim we didn't deserve to be punished because we disagreed with them.

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I don't think I did say that. I know some people on here view themselves as judge jury and executioner, but it is just a messageboard.

On this I am 100% opposed to the law changes from the Welsh Govt and judging by most speeds on most streets the vast majority don't support them in practice and people doing nothing in practice that is wrong are being hit with fines, which I think is wrong.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

It's not whataboutism. It's about taking the argument that anything that makes us 'safer' should automatically become law with punishment and fines imposed

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But drinking after 11pm or going to away matches isn’t against the law, why is it so difficult to accept that driving above the speed limit is?

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Originally Posted by splott parker

But drinking after 11pm or going to away matches isn’t against the law, why is it so difficult to accept that driving above the speed limit is?

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I don't dispute it is against the law.

I'm saying the law is stupid made up by bad politicians who view it as a cash cow.

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Originally Posted by Armitage Shanks

Welcome to the socialist Republic of Wales with Chairman Drakeford in charge and that wet blanket lee Walters in charge of transport Wales has no hope.

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We voted for it

Obviously you didn't but I am afraid it's tough

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I don't dispute it is against the law.

I'm saying the law is stupid made up by bad politicians who view it as a cash cow.

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‘The law is an ass’ has been an oft spoken phrase throughout the years. In the big picture dropping the speed limit is quite a petty amendment and is something that affects us very little and is easy to adhere to. I can’t see what the big hoo-haa is all about. The law is an ass can be applied to a few other bigger things. Not that I can think of any, habitual offenders may be able to help :hehe:

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Originally Posted by splott parker

‘The law is an ass’ has been an oft spoken phrase throughout the years. In the big picture dropping the speed limit is quite a petty amendment and is something that affects us very little and is easy to adhere to. I can’t see what the big hoo-haa is all about. The law is an ass can be applied to a few other bigger things. Not that I can think of any, habitual offenders may be able to help :hehe:

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If it doesn't piss you off then that's fine. There will be plenty of things you do that will annoy others and vice versa.

Personally I think the law is a distraction, something to make the generally very poor WG look like they are doing something whilst doing absolutely nothing of any good but punishing people for not doing anything really wrong. It's a totally disproportionate law and one of many micro stresses that generally makes life a little more difficult for people

The biggest danger to young children is parents in cars aka the school run

For many years there are warnings outside schools , double yellows etc and threats of clamping

But it never happens . The Pcso are hopeless and there is no enforcement

So people continue to park where they want and children are at risk of being hit as they cross between parked cars

The 20 mph limit needs to be enforced

If enough people get caught on camera and it reduces pedestrian deaths and injuries around built up areas and schools then I don't think anyone can complain

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The biggest danger to young children is parents in cars aka the school run

For many years there are warnings outside schools , double yellows etc and threats of clamping

But it never happens . The Pcso are hopeless and there is no enforcement

So people continue to park where they want and children are at risk of being hit as they cross between parked cars

The 20 mph limit needs to be enforced

If enough people get caught on camera and it reduces pedestrian deaths and injuries around built up areas and schools then I don't think anyone can complain

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Is that not mitigated for by reducing speeds near schools, which I don't think anyone objects to.

The issue is on roads where it is perfectly safe to drive at 30 etc now suddenly seeing cars crawl along at 20. I was stuck behind someone doing 16 the other day, it's mental.

I've also noticed more people casually crossing roads and general road rage, tailgating etc.

It's all over the top.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Well said. They aint petrol heads though, they're just a bunch of old white blokes who hate any form of regulation, and see it as another way of being told what to do. If statistics are released showing that there have been benefits to curbing speed limits, then these wankers won't give a shit. It's Me, me, me..... and it always has been. If the likes of Bluetit and North Cardiff Blue had been about 120 years ago, they'd have been moaning about the laws that were brought in that stopped 8 year olds climbing up chimney chambers in order to sweep them. I'm like you, i couldn't give a shit. I know that if i hit someone at 20 as opposed to 30, then they've got a better chance of living. That'll do for me.

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Dumb post

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Originally Posted by Joe Gillis

Dumb post

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You usually know you are about to read a load of guff when someone unnecessarily mentions skin colour at the start of their point. Very 2020s.

I would like to see the parking and speed camera fines revenue taken away from local councils and the police and maybe going into some sort of independent body who distributes and evidences the money going back into good causes like sorting out the potholes. Then we would see how eager local councils are about road safety and air pollution.

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Originally Posted by Whisperer

I would like to see the parking and speed camera fines revenue taken away from local councils and the police and maybe going into some sort of independent body who distributes and evidences the money going back into good causes like sorting out the potholes. Then we would see how eager local councils are about road safety and air pollution.

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I dont think many would argue with that ( though they might on here ) :thumbup:

There's a couple of points about the new 20mph zones in Wales which I think may have been overlooked.
First, in all probability, your car's speedo is set at least 3mph LESS than actual [it can be a lot more], so if you're speedo says you are doing 30, you are doing 27 at most, pos less. Same with 20mph, you're doing 17mph MAX.

So this means that when Mr/Mrs cautious drive at 18/19mph in the new zones, they are doing 15/16 mph, possibly even less. Consequently it seems like a crawl, which it is. Obviously this stuff isn't really discussed in the media.

The Welsh Gov. are bringing in the Fire Brigade next month to stop motorists who are caught over 20mph. They'll be given the option of an on-site safety lecture or a fine/endorsement. Just to let folk know, if they say you were doing 24 mph in a 20 mph zone, tell fireman sam to f**k off. Because of the above, there is a tolerance level of 10% + 2 .

Happy motoring.

Bath has a few 20 mph zones now, driving my van or my daughters car through them are fine, but driving the family car is a right pain, the car doesnt like doing 15 mph ( and thats what my sat nav on the phone said ) as above, people in front maybe thought they were doing 18 mph

Driving in these zones are just not fun

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Well said. They aint petrol heads though, they're just a bunch of old white blokes who hate any form of regulation, and see it as another way of being told what to do. If statistics are released showing that there have been benefits to curbing speed limits, then these wankers won't give a shit. It's Me, me, me..... and it always has been. If the likes of Bluetit and North Cardiff Blue had been about 120 years ago, they'd have been moaning about the laws that were brought in that stopped 8 year olds climbing up chimney chambers in order to sweep them. I'm like you, i couldn't give a shit. I know that if i hit someone at 20 as opposed to 30, then they've got a better chance of living. That'll do for me.

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Oh very moral, what an amazing citizen you are, such a safe driver it's a good job Cardiff and Wales pedestrians have you to protect them :thumbup:

Last week - https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.ph...light=speeding

Tuerto -
Got banned for 18 months when i was 17, driving without a full licence, no insurance and then tried to get away from the police, crashed the van into a farmers field.

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Originally Posted by Hilts

How are so many being caught. Cant they see the camera??

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I think at first people didn't realise the speed had changed, it's been 40mph for years before and 30mph seems too slow.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Oh very moral, what an amazing citizen you are, such a safe driver it's a good job Cardiff and Wales pedestrians have you to protect them :thumbup:

Last week - https://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.ph...light=speeding

Tuerto -
Got banned for 18 months when i was 17, driving without a full licence, no insurance and then tried to get away from the police, crashed the van into a farmers field.

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:hehe::hehe::hehe:

52 years driving here, never had 3 points, never been stopped for speeding.

It’s not about the 20mph, it’s about criminalising people.

You would have never have wanted to be behind me, slow driving with a pot of hot pitch on the back, or a van load of glass, I was doing 20mph before it was invented :hehe:

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The biggest danger to young children is parents in cars aka the school run

For many years there are warnings outside schools , double yellows etc and threats of clamping

But it never happens . The Pcso are hopeless and there is no enforcement

So people continue to park where they want and children are at risk of being hit as they cross between parked cars

The 20 mph limit needs to be enforced

If enough people get caught on camera and it reduces pedestrian deaths and injuries around built up areas and schools then I don't think anyone can complain

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20mph by schools perfect, everyone agrees and that was already in force. On side streets where cars are double parked, people should be driving at 10mph as a door could open at any minute. Use appropriate speed for the road and conditions.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

No they won't. All polls I see suggest at least 90% are against the new 20mph speed limits. I also notice the Welsh Conservatives are promising to overturn this if elected. Will it make any difference? Hardly. Had Plaid or the Lib Dems proposed to overturn it, there might have been a threat, but Wales will never vote in a Tory senedd, no matter what it promises.

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Both should agree to reverse it, it would be an easy vote winner.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

Across Wales there were 569 pedestrian casualties in 2022. 19 of those were killed. It's interesting to delve into the statswales website to find out more.

320 pedestrians were hit by cars on unclassified roads (56%)
80 pedestrians were hit by cars on B roads (14%)
167 pedestrians were hit by cars on A roads (29%)

8 pedestrians were killed on A-roads, 5 on B-roads, 5 on unclassified roads.

8 pedestrians were killed on dual carriageways, 10 on normal single carriageway roads, 1 on a motorway.

8 pedestrians were killed in areas where the speed limit was 50mph, 2 in areas of 40mph, 8 in areas of 30mph and 1 in a 20mph area.

It might be interesting to some that 15 of the 19 fatalities occurred in good weather.

The Welsh Government has made a big point about pedestrian survival rate being much higher at 20mph, hence the reason for lowering the speed limits. Last year no-one was run over on a single carriage A-road with a speed limit of 30mph, only 4 were killed on B-roads with a speed limit of 30mph.

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Good stats :thumbup:

What if instead of changing speed limits they had used that money to improve early diagnosis of Cancer in the Welsh NHS, wouldn't that save far more lives?

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Good stats :thumbup:

What if instead of changing speed limits they had used that money to improve early diagnosis of Cancer in the Welsh NHS, wouldn't that save far more lives?

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What if they just used that money in the NHS full stop?

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Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee

What if they just used that money in the NHS full stop?

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Exactly it would save far more lives.

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

There's a couple of points about the new 20mph zones in Wales which I think may have been overlooked.
First, in all probability, your car's speedo is set at least 3mph LESS than actual [it can be a lot more], so if you're speedo says you are doing 30, you are doing 27 at most, pos less. Same with 20mph, you're doing 17mph MAX.

So this means that when Mr/Mrs cautious drive at 18/19mph in the new zones, they are doing 15/16 mph, possibly even less.
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Having worked in the very highly regulated field of speed calibration for the last 25 years, with every major automotive supplier except Ford, for both analogue & digital feeds, I can assure you that your statements are completely wrong and misleading. The calibration error rate allowed is less than 10ppm. The company supply millions of units each year and last year we received back 3 out of calibration units.

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Originally Posted by Des Parrot

Having worked in the very highly regulated field of speed calibration for the last 25 years, with every major automotive supplier except Ford, for both analogue & digital feeds, I can assure you that your statements are completely wrong and misleading. The calibration error rate allowed is less than 10ppm. The company supply millions of units each year and last year we received back 3 out of calibration units.

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Ten parts per million wow!

I have been told that the new speed cameras are so accurate that they can accurately catch people at 1mph over the limit, although that may have been BS?

If anyone knows for definite what the allowances are for speeding that would be handy?

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

20mph by schools perfect, everyone agrees and that was already in force. On side streets where cars are double parked, people should be driving at 10mph as a door could open at any minute. Use appropriate speed for the road and conditions.

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Exactly. Legislation totally unnecessary. Designed by people who no longer really commute too.

The real idiots drive about 45 when they should do 20. This won't stop them much, just criminalises people driving perfectly safely.

Welsh Govt are useless and just trying to do something for the sake of it.

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Originally Posted by North Cardiff Blue

Ten parts per million wow!

I have been told that the new speed cameras are so accurate that they can accurately catch people at 1mph over the limit, although that may have been BS?

If anyone knows for definite what the allowances are for speeding that would be handy?

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You'd be doing us all a favour if you could find out for us. Drive past at 30, 31, 32 and so on until you get a ticket then let us know.
Cheers