You must be woking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird
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You must be woking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest Green Bluebird
Youve never kissed anyone on a night out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
Yes, with their consent. Not a hard concept to grasp is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
You telling me you've kissed people without their consent?
Whittingham’s goal at the Riverside and Ledley’s at Wembley a few weeks later...........is that acceptable? :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
When's international Men's Day, eh!
https://www.internationalmensday.inf...20main%20event.Quote:
Originally Posted by OurManFlint II
19th November this year, apparently:shrug:
What every single drunken snog when you have gone into kiss someone, you have always obtained their clear consent and then they have never ever pulled away? Hmm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
I’m in Madrid at the moment. Locals don’t seem very bothered about it.
When asked most of the people I have talked to simply shrug and are not sure about the media reaction. Having said that they have been mostly males. Perhaps the differently gendered group have more concerns and are more ready to voice them.
I would hope they have several hundred bigger things to worry about.Quote:
Originally Posted by light up the darkness
It's the 21st century. Not like the '80s when you had to wait for the Echo to come out to read a report of Saturday's game. I can't believe anyone is buying a paper to read about this. It's not like anyone has an exclusive. You can get this story anywhere. It was even on Public Television news over here.
Neither am I, but I’m also not comfortable about the opinion of the woman concerned being ignored by those only too eager to cry “woke”.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Hmmmm (indeed)...Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
You're coming across as a drunken sex pest here. I'm not suggesting you are but no I never felt the urge to try and snog someone on the off chance.
Obviously your understanding of 'consent' is, it's what you are consenting to do, not the other person (victim)?
You sound like your hero Boris Johnson buddy.
I must admit I don't know much about what "woke" is or means, so I've just looked it up. Definition is being aware, especially of social injustice and discrimination. I always thought it was a derogatory term, but it's obviously anything but. Clearly anyone using the word "woke" to describe someone in a negative way can only come from someone who doesn't give a shit about social injustice and discrimination.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Being called woke is a compliment in my world, but people who always bang on about freedom of choice for themselves with no thought for those who suffer as a result clearly think differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Wtf, kind of escalation is this?! 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordi Culé
So you are saying, every kiss you have ever had, when you have made the first move you have absolutely 100% established consent first (verbal or written) and that you know 100% that she wanted to kiss you at that moment?
I sincerely doubt that this is the case. This kind of talk is the kind of thing that is contributing to a lot of anxiety around sexuality in younger people tbh.
These are different example to the case in question, which was awkward and there are questions over the power dynamic etc but it's not sexual assault
That's what woke people think it means! It can be used either way, as it tends to be used in a derogatory sense for people who take an extreme response to such solutions, insert race politics inyo every situation, create division etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Yes, I agree, although I don't think anyone is saying she should be ignored, and it's clearly not an issue being swept under the carpet. It's whether it is, or whether it should be considered sexual assault that matters, and what the consequences are if it is classed as such, as opposed perhaps to just an awkward exhange between two peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Georgie Porgie pudding and pie kissed the girls and made them cry when the media came out to play all hell broke loose.
Ah, so the racists, sexists etc have their own definition, which doesn't feature in any dictionary. Thanks for clearing that up. :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Ask yourself a question, would anyone on here think it acceptable to do that to a woman in the work place, or anywhere else for that matter? You wouldn't dare, right? He's behaved that way because he thinks it acceptable, because he thinks that he can do it, it's all about him and nothing about the Player who he kissed, it was a power grab, a way of dominating a moment that had **** all to do with him.
He should just walk, more than anything for me, it's insulting, like treating the player in question like a child. He's moved in on her success, her brilliance. It's not just a kiss.
It does feature though:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/woke
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...y/english/woke
Although that is a fair point, context does matter. She wrapped her arms around him and lifted him up in the air.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
I've been in a few successful meetings before but no one has ever done that.
The context is they had just won the world cup.
What he did was wrong and awkward but it's still an enormous overreaction as a story in my opinion and people should be cautious of the legal fall out from things like this really, in my opinion
Can you help me find the moment where she lifts him up?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3AEgylgpiU
Thanks for confirming your definition is one used by racists, sexists etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
What a bizarre (and very 'woke'!!) analysis from you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Part of the criticism however is that 'wokeism' is racist, because it frequently divides society by that characteristic and defines it as the most important trait there is. You can read out and out racist things from both the woke and anti-woke. It's not a clear cut thing.
I understand that the word is complex and can be used by different people in different contexts to mean different things. Like most adjetives in the English language
It's not in that video but that is what the Spanish FA claimed. Here's the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
https://news.sky.com/story/luis-rubi...final-12947722
Oh I see, it happened (it definitely happened, of course it definitely happened) but it just can't be seen in the video. Well I trust them.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
It happened (still image on 40 seconds).Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orSex2l6EBo
The video you posted is 8 seconds long though isn't it. Clearly what the Spanish FA claim didn't happen within those 8 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
This is the problem. If he has committed sexual assault then he can very likely claim to be a victim of assault.
Or everyone can admit that sometimes awkward exchanges exist between people esp in moments of heightened passion etc.
What he did was wrong, but it's socially wrong in my opinion. This isn't a case of sexual assault, which is something that to me is a very serious offence that should carry hefty prison sentences. Is that really what people want for any kiss on the lips without verbal or written consent?
What do you think should happen then if someone is held by the side of their heads and kissed on their lips against their will and the person felt violated and complained.?Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
If Id done this in the workplace id expect to be sacked.
The hysteria wouldnt be what it is if hed shown genuine remorse and resigned.
I'd suggest it be dealt with internally and properly investigated to get both sides of the story and not become another part of a culture war, or automatically be presented as sexual assault etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Des Parrot
Keys in the bowl?
Yeah, but your the bloke who thinks “gammon” is racist.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
This, there is no mitigation for his action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
I think using insults based on skin colour in a derogatory way certainly can be racist, yes. I doubt you would recommend any non-white friends of yours to casually refer to their employees as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
I wouldn’t accuse you of being a racist because I don’t think you are one, but your interpretations of who are racists and what constitutes racism are somewhat bizarre.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWales
Oh, I don't know. The gammons are definitely a race apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
:hehe:
Hmm not really Bob. I think I'm pretty consistent in thinking that insults based on mocking skin colour are generally not okay with me. I agree that context does matter for example; people may be being satirical etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Without going too far off topic (from the idea of Norwich winning the FA cup!) I do think there are plenty of racist examples from those who perhaps the woke label applies to and those who it certainly doesn't. I dont think it's an ideology at all really but either way I don't view it as a progressive one.
Anyway, context always matters in these things, whether we are accusing people of racism or sexual assaults.
Spain has head-on been tackling misogyny and domestic violence very publicly these past years. Facing the obvious push back as it takes each institute to task, the central government have been brilliant and so have local, as well as charities and civil rights movements. You know they have an expression here that translates as "oh, i only beat my wife normally, not excessively".Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuerto
This is not about the kiss, its just another straw on the back of backward institutions. I've lived in Spain over 20 years, its quite funny to see the gaslighters looking in on one incident without context of the problem nationally, let alone the problems for years and years with that very misogynistic institution that is the Spanish FA.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."