Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
You think the rich pay income tax? Let's start by not pitting working people against each other. I made it pretty clear who I was talking about.
Regarding the nhs, I don't think you are taking into account inflation since 2019. Obviously not an exact science but at a basic level something which cost 10£ in 2019 will now cost roughly 25% more. Then add in demographic changes and population growth and that astounding increase in funding looks a bit more like the minimum required to keep the service almost afloat.
Furlough is often leant upon as an example of how 'generous' the government is. It's silly really because unless the way wealth and income derived from investments is changed soon, the debt created by furlough will be paid for by the lower living standards of generations to come, which I don't think is a good thing.
At the time I felt like I was the only person on this board who was skeptical as to whether furlough to the level it was provided was a good use of public funds, despite the near worldwide consensus, I still remain skeptical today. Furlough was primarily an effort to pause BAU until the economy could 'reopen' not to help people pay their bills, that was abundantly clear when the level of support was compared to UC.
Depends what you mean by the rich. But yeah, they do.
If we are talking about the super rich, you and I are ptobably on the same page. I most definitely dont bang the drum for privatisation, globalisation or tax avoidance.
Furlough saved millions of livlihoods. But it came at a cost.
The NHS is receiving more money than before Covid, even accounting for inflation. Thats just a reality. It doesn't mean we live in a socialist country, it doesn't mean acknowledging that means you support the govt more widely. It also may or may not be enough money, but it is the reality
Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Headline tax rates are only one part of the picture. It doesn't reflect the reality. The very rich manage to pay very little tax - although they do pay out big fees to their accountants!
https://academic.oup.com/oxrep/article/39/3/406/7245704
On top of that you have a benefits system that provides public subsidies to employers for low wages, and landlords for high rents.
Then you have a history of privatisations that takes assets from the public to enrich a layer of shareholders (OK - pension funds too, but....) where profits are privatised and losses are socialised.
And a history of public funding for infrastructure and skills (especially in the health and engineering sectors) that provide massive public subsidies for private profit - made worse by recent examples of public contracts (not just the NHS through Covid) going to overseas multinationals (paying for their dividends and executive salaries) or blue rosette mates on the make.
'Socialism for the rich' seems to be an apt description.
We would probably be in complete agreement on the role of the super rich and also probably on privatisations, although I am much less dogmatic on that in general.
In a globalised world, and a Europe of free movement of wealth etc, how do you propose we pin the wealth down more, without losing it to other parts of the world?
Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Depends what you mean by the rich. But yeah, they do.
If we are talking about the super rich, you and I are ptobably on the same page. I most definitely dont bang the drum for privatisation, globalisation or tax avoidance.
Furlough saved millions of livlihoods. But it came at a cost.
The NHS is receiving more money than before Covid, even accounting for inflation. Thats just a reality. It doesn't mean we live in a socialist country, it doesn't mean acknowledging that means you support the govt more widely. It also may or may not be enough money, but it is the reality
'socialism for the insanely/generationally wealthy' is pretty clear that I don't mean normal working families living in the home counties.
Re: Who Will Realy Want To Help Refugees
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
We would probably be in complete agreement on the role of the super rich and also probably on privatisations, although I am much less dogmatic on that in general.
In a globalised world, and a Europe of free movement of wealth etc, how do you propose we pin the wealth down more, without losing it to other parts of the world?
I think we need to work out what we are losing first..
