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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
You may be right about Wintle, but then that takes us back to what I said about splits. If Wintle is playing as you say, then that means that we are playing with just three attack minded players and watching Tanner and Grant last week, I wonder if I’m being generous in saying that. When Ramsey was fit, we had another player who maybe wasn’t playing as an out and out attacker, but our striker wasn’t looking as isolated as he did last season, but it had a very 22/23 look to it against Watford. To me, if you play less attack minded players in your team, your chances of scoring have to decrease accordingly.
Finally, I’d think that Robinson has done enough in this division and higher over the last decade to prove he’s capable of playing as a number ten at this level.
Maybe but he also played in the 3 game win bounce v Coventry, Sunderland and Rotherham. I didn’t see all the Coventry game but many people here complimented how well we played that evening
I agree we miss Ramsey massively but I don’t think the other options including Wintle are up to it if we want to play with a 10.
Huge Robinson fan, but he’s been poor when getting time this season. I’d still try him upfront at some point. Hopefully he just needs a kick up the backside.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Worcester
The Rubin Colwill situation fascinates me. I'll pin my colours to the mast straight away and admit I am a huge fan - and quite simply couldn't care if he doesn't track back every single time for 90 mins. Give me what he has got and let the others do the grunt work. Clearly reading this thread more disagree with me than agree - which surprises me. As a young Cardiff academy boy I did think there would be a tendency from the fan base to give a bit of leeway to him - not take it away. But if I was him I would get away from the club at the first opportunity - hard I'm sure given home, family etc etc - but for the sake of his career I would try and find a club and a manager who might just consider the positive, creative things he can do rather than be obsessed with the workaholic, out of possession, tracking back things he can't.
I suppose it depends which way you look at it, if Colwill came from Tranmere academy to us and he was just playing in the U21 I doubt we would be having this conversation. Us fans generally are desperate to have someone come through and make it, he could be a stand out player in time.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Worcester
The Rubin Colwill situation fascinates me. I'll pin my colours to the mast straight away and admit I am a huge fan - and quite simply couldn't care if he doesn't track back every single time for 90 mins. Give me what he has got and let the others do the grunt work. Clearly reading this thread more disagree with me than agree - which surprises me. As a young Cardiff academy boy I did think there would be a tendency from the fan base to give a bit of leeway to him - not take it away. But if I was him I would get away from the club at the first opportunity - hard I'm sure given home, family etc etc - but for the sake of his career I would try and find a club and a manager who might just consider the positive, creative things he can do rather than be obsessed with the workaholic, out of possession, tracking back things he can't.
That's why Bulut and Pep are football Managers and you are a plumber/pensioner/doctor/whatever, you'd soon get sick of a few nice Colwill goals and losing three one every week.
If Pep likes his players working as hard without the ball as they do with it, that's good enough for me, it's such a simple concept?
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Doucas
Remember when people criticised Lee Tomlin and then when a manage actually started him and gave him a chance he dragged us to the playoffs pretty much single handedly.
Taarabt would be benched under Bulut, as would probably Bothroyd, maybe even Whittingham.
At some point you just have to let your #10s and strikers be attacking players and let them do what they do best. Robinson to me has always seemed like a hard worker, he's had loads of injuries recently and if he isn't playing regularly of course he won't look match fit.
Colwill is a player who could potentially win us games by himself, we've seen him score for Wales, vs Liverpool, winner vs QPR and Forest. 15 minutes here or there isn't good enough for a player like him. Give him 10 games to see what he can do, if after that Bulut still isn't happy send him out on loan.
If I were Colwill I'd try and get away for the sake of my career, it looks like he just won't be given a chance here and we will regret it.
I also think that Tanner hasn't improved much, that's not a criticism, I think he was always this good but he was just never given a chance. I posted about a year ago on here and Twitter saying the same thing about Tanner as I'm saying about Colwill now.
But that's not how were set up to play. And to say about Bothroyd is laughable when you watch Ugbo
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
That's why Bulut and Pep are football Managers and you are a plumber/pensioner/doctor/whatever, you'd soon get sick of a few nice Colwill goals and losing three one every week.
If Pep likes his players working as hard without the ball as they do with it, that's good enough for me, it's such a simple concept?
The classic 'you're not a football manager' argument when someone has a different opinion. And of all the comparisons made the Pep one makes me laugh the most. Got to be honest, I never fully appreciated that if Rubin played we are guaranteed to lose 3-1. Now I know.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Risky game calling players out in public in this way, especially as by own admission he hasn’t spoken to Robinson first to let him know he’s not happy him. Poor form really.
He does have the touch of the Colin’s about him on that nothing is ever his fault and he’ll happily throw the players under the bus first.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Risky game calling players out in public in this way, especially as by own admission he hasn’t spoken to Robinson first to let him know he’s not happy him. Poor form really.
He does have the touch of the Colin’s about him on that nothing is ever his fault and he’ll happily throw the players under the bus first.
I don't like him naming players like that, it could blow up in his face.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Perhaps Bulut will give Colwill 90 seconds at the end of tomorrow's game to prove him wrong.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
Perhaps Bulut will give Colwill 90 seconds at the end of tomorrow's game to prove him wrong.
He might, but I doubt it.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I don't agree, why is it okay for one type of player (defenders) to contribute little as attackers, but not okay for attacking players to contribute little as defenders? It's illogical.
As I said, I'm not naive enough to think that you drop players like Collins, Goutas, McGuinness and Sipios because they don't offer a great deal in an attacking or creative sense, but where is the consistency of thought to a process which does not treat the ten outfield players in the same way?
You use the term "dedicated defender" - the one I'm thinking of here is "out and out defender", why is acceptable to have out and out defenders, but, seemingly, not okay to have out and out attackers?
I agree that the two players concerned could do more defensively, but, watching us at Middlesbrough and then against Watford, it seems to me that Bulut is in danger of cutting off his nose to spite his face - is playing someone like Wintle in such an attacking role giving us more overall than what we lose by having the, apparently, defensively suspect Robinson or Colwill there?
I mentioned before on here that most managers appear to be okay with a 7/4 defensive/attacking make up to their team, Bulut wants an 8/3 split.
Over the last couple of games we seem to have regressed to a standard Cardiff City 'keep shape and nick a goal' side. I'd much prefer the entertaining chaos of a free scoring City team playing attacking football, at the risk of conceding goals, than a side based on hard work and grinding out 1-0 wins with a goal from a set piece. Robinson is a proven Championship player with genuine attacking quality and, if fit, he should play.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
I don't like Bulut calling out players the way he did - especially with Robinson before he had had the conversation with him.
I didn't like it with Morison either.
There are times and places and ways of making a point - and both barrels in a pre match press conference is probably wrong on all counts. Otherwise (bar a few odd selections) he has been an impressive breathe of fresh air - a real manager with a vision, a plan and a load of self confidence. It can be infectious!
But I mostly agree with the position he has taken - and I think he is doing it from a stance of making two good players better.
It may be a mistake to exclude Colwill and Robinson from the starting 11 if he doesn't think they are defending well enough from the front. He may be losing more from them than he gains from the less talented players that do the hard work. But if he can get the reaction he wants it will be worth it for the short term pain.
I expect Colwill to do the same as Tanner when given the Bulut treatment. Not so sure about Robbo - but hope he does too.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
I want Colwill to succeed as much as the rest of us but I don't think it's much to ask for him to work a little harder off the ball. That doesn't mean he has to defend like some of you are suggesting. He just has to work harder in his zone of the pitch. I really hope he gets this because I am sick and tired of seeing a city team with 3 DMs in midfield.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I don't like Bulut calling out players the way he did - especially with Robinson before he had had the conversation with him.
I didn't like it with Morison either.
There are times and places and ways of making a point - and both barrels in a pre match press conference is probably wrong on all counts. Otherwise (bar a few odd selections) he has been an impressive breathe of fresh air - a real manager with a vision, a plan and a load of self confidence. It can be infectious!
But I mostly agree with the position he has taken - and I think he is doing it from a stance of making two good players better.
It may be a mistake to exclude Colwill and Robinson from the starting 11 if he doesn't think they are defending well enough from the front. He may be losing more from them than he gains from the less talented players that do the hard work. But if he can get the reaction he wants it will be worth it for the short term pain.
I expect Colwill to do the same as Tanner when given the Bulut treatment. Not so sure about Robbo - but hope he does too.
He did something similar with Tanner early in the season and Tanner has been excellent since.
I very much doubt that either Colwill or Robinson didn't know what the manager wants from them.
:ayatollah:
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Worcester
The classic 'you're not a football manager' argument when someone has a different opinion. And of all the comparisons made the Pep one makes me laugh the most. Got to be honest, I never fully appreciated that if Rubin played we are guaranteed to lose 3-1. Now I know.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...-doku-30986767
Jack Grealish handed Man City warning after Pep Guardiola's "incredible" admission
Jack Grealish is still Manchester City's most expensive player of all time but has been sent a warning on his place in the side with Pep Guardiola aiming to add to the treble he won last season.
Jack Grealish has been warned that he needs to work “harder” to keep his place at Manchester City following the arrival of Jeremy Doku.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Worcester
The classic 'you're not a football manager' argument when someone has a different opinion. And of all the comparisons made the Pep one makes me laugh the most. Got to be honest, I never fully appreciated that if Rubin played we are guaranteed to lose 3-1. Now I know.
If less than eleven men are playing full pelt without the ball we leak goals, you watched the start of the season, Bulut improved the attacking options but we needed three goals to get a win, he's now tightened things up and has the team working harder without the ball, and if we score two we usually win. Play a number ten that won't put in a shift, we will leak goals again, it's basic stuff.
Buluts told them, do what I want or don't play, I think he'll get a response, lets wait and see it worked with Tanner a treat and now what a player.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...-doku-30986767
Jack Grealish handed Man City warning after Pep Guardiola's "incredible" admission
Jack Grealish is still Manchester City's most expensive player of all time but has been sent a warning on his place in the side with Pep Guardiola aiming to add to the treble he won last season.
Jack Grealish has been warned that he needs to work “harder” to keep his place at Manchester City following the arrival of Jeremy Doku.
The bloke doesn't know what he's talking about.......
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...-doku-30986767
Jack Grealish handed Man City warning after Pep Guardiola's "incredible" admission
Jack Grealish is still Manchester City's most expensive player of all time but has been sent a warning on his place in the side with Pep Guardiola aiming to add to the treble he won last season.
Jack Grealish has been warned that he needs to work “harder” to keep his place at Manchester City following the arrival of Jeremy Doku.
Warned by who? Pep? Publicly? Or some ex player turned pundit? Lay of the ket, Feedy.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Warned by who? Pep? Publicly? Or some ex player turned pundit? Lay of the ket, Feedy.
Only just looked at the story and it’s not really what it was painted as when the link was posted is it. Also, I can’t find anything directly saying that Grealish has to work harder in the areas our manager seems so concerned about. In fact, the article seems all about what Grealish does when he has the ball.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
If less than eleven men are playing full pelt without the ball we leak goals, you watched the start of the season, Bulut improved the attacking options but we needed three goals to get a win, he's now tightened things up and has the team working harder without the ball, and if we score two we usually win. Play a number ten that won't put in a shift, we will leak goals again, it's basic stuff.
Buluts told them, do what I want or don't play, I think he'll get a response, lets wait and see it worked with Tanner a treat and now what a player.
Out of interest, when’s the last time Tanner beat his marker in the manner he was doing so often in the early weeks of the season - maybe all of the effort of spending most of his time covering defensively in his own half for much of our last couple of games was tiring him out?
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Warned by who? Pep? Publicly? Or some ex player turned pundit? Lay of the ket, Feedy.
Jesus this ones thick :hehe:
Who do you think, Pep it's blatantly obvious.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-news-27814691
Keep on the Smack and finish the last few brain cells.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Out of interest, when’s the last time Tanner beat his marker in the manner he was doing so often in the early weeks of the season - maybe all of the effort of spending most of his time covering defensively in his own half for much of our last couple of games was tiring him out?
Probably since Ramsey has been out and he has become one of our main threats.
It was pretty obvious after tearing Swansea apart he was going to get more attention as teams plan to stop him playing.
Bowler is playing well, a few weeks off and hopefully he will come back stronger.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Only just looked at the story and it’s not really what it was painted as when the link was posted is it. Also, I can’t find anything directly saying that Grealish has to work harder in the areas our manager seems so concerned about. In fact, the article seems all about what Grealish does when he has the ball.
Here you go Bob, Pep often asks more from his players, most good Managers do.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-news-27814691
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
Where’s the quotes from Pep in either link you’ve posted?
Mental
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Out of interest, when’s the last time Tanner beat his marker in the manner he was doing so often in the early weeks of the season - maybe all of the effort of spending most of his time covering defensively in his own half for much of our last couple of games was tiring him out?
There surely has to be a line - how much of an attacking player's creativity is Bulut prepared to sacrifice for that player's defensive duty? Dave Jones, as an example, gave Peter Whittingham quite a bit of freedom from his defensive duty if it meant him being more creative at the other end of the pitch. Malky Mackay was much more demanding of Whitts. I might be wrong, but I can't see Bulut being anywhere near as strict with Rambo as he is being with Robinson and Colwill.
At the moment, Bulut seems to be totally happy for us to have little creativity as long as it makes us stronger defensively. It's working to a fashion. We've gone from having one of the worst defensive records earlier in the season to having currently the 10th best. We've also gone from being one of the division's top scorers to a side where 10 other teams in the division have scored less than us. I fully appreciate that losing Ramsey is a big factor in that, but for Bulut to prefer a defensive midfielder in a sort of no.10 position than 2 players who are more attacking there, suggests he's now happy to cling on to 0-0 draws and hope to pinch a point. As a result our football is now as bad as it was last season, we offer no threat and we're losing games as a result.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
OK so you know better than the manager, let's go back to conceding two or three a game and Cowlill playing a nice few moves and tricks and losing 3-1, sack Bulut and start again with a new manager shipping another load of players in and out.
It's tough love from an experienced Manager, give me a better work ethic if you want to play, good on him, this team can't afford any luxury players.
Pep does exactly the same to world-class players, working for the team or warming the bench eventually players like Grealish and Foden get it, and become Premier League and Champions League-winning world-class players.
Ah yes, I forgot you aren't allowed opinions in football otherwise you know better than the manager.
But yeah I'm going to stick my neck out and say playing Robinson or Colwill would work much better than Wintle in #10. Everyone can see it apart from you and Bulut.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
OK so you know better than the manager, let's go back to conceding two or three a game and Cowlill playing a nice few moves and tricks and losing 3-1
Whereas we're now being ultra defensive, not scoring at all and losing 1 or 2-0.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
I’ve still not seen a link where Pep is telling Grealish he won’t be picking him because he’s not doing enough when Man City don’t have the ball though.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Our fans seem to have an unhealthy relationship with Colwill, partly down to be desperatation for him to succeed as a local academy boy. We seem to have one side saying he’s the best thing since sliced bread and another saying he’s not up to it and saying how poor he was today for 15mins. Kind of feel sorry for him, managers comments to me seem right but I’m not sure he’s the type to react, he seems very laid back. I’m certain he needs games somewhere tho.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I’ve still not seen a link where Pep is telling Grealish he won’t be picking him because he’s not doing enough when Man City don’t have the ball though.
Pep dropped Aguero for this very reason.
For what it’s worth, I think it is odd to say the least. Robinson is our best player in my opinion.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pedro de la Rosa
Pep dropped Aguero for this very reason.
For what it’s worth, I think it is odd to say the least. Robinson is our best player in my opinion.
Our best player?
Whereas Robinson is one of our more gifted players there is no way that he is our best player!
That is like saying that Marlon Pack was our best player.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
What's odd to me is not that he necessarily feels that about Colwill and Robinson... it's clear that Colwill still doesn't have the fitness or the pace to press like Bulut wants for 90 minutes and Robinson hasn't looked particularly interested in the games he has played and you assume Bulut sees the same in training. Although in that case it still makes no sense Colwill was given a contract, I don't think he was showing Bulut something in preseason that he isn't now.
But it is odd that he seems to roll out Ugbo and Grant every game in that case. After his early season goal scoring "exploits" Ugbo basically contributes nothing on either end, and yet twice he's been the player he turns to when he's not happy with the effort Tanner has put in. It basically feels like we play with 10 with Ugbo on the pitch, and yet I guess he runs around enough for Bulut to feel like he's trying? You could say the same about Grant, he's had a couple good games but other than that he's mostly anonymous. Seems very much like it's one standard for one set of players and one for another... as noted I'd much rather see a player like Robinson who has the quality at this level given a chance than one like Ugbo who quite clearly so far doesn't.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LA Bluebird
What's odd to me is not that he necessarily feels that about Colwill and Robinson... it's clear that Colwill still doesn't have the fitness or the pace to press like Bulut wants for 90 minutes and Robinson hasn't looked particularly interested in the games he has played and you assume Bulut sees the same in training. Although in that case it still makes no sense Colwill was given a contract, I don't think he was showing Bulut something in preseason that he isn't now.
But it is odd that he seems to roll out Ugbo and Grant every game in that case. After his early season goal scoring "exploits" Ugbo basically contributes nothing on either end, and yet twice he's been the player he turns to when he's not happy with the effort Tanner has put in. It basically feels like we play with 10 with Ugbo on the pitch, and yet I guess he runs around enough for Bulut to feel like he's trying? You could say the same about Grant, he's had a couple good games but other than that he's mostly anonymous. Seems very much like it's one standard for one set of players and one for another... as noted I'd much rather see a player like Robinson who has the quality at this level given a chance than one like Ugbo who quite clearly so far doesn't.
I think Meite and Etete are now ahead of Ugbo, both their injuries coming at the same time didn’t help. The only other real option upfront is Robinson who he doesn’t seem to think can do it. I would be surprised not to see Meite upfront Tuesday.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2b2bdoo
I think Meite and Etete are now ahead of Ugbo, both their injuries coming at the same time didn’t help. The only other real option upfront is Robinson who he doesn’t seem to think can do it. I would be surprised not to see Meite upfront Tuesday.
I would love to see us set up differently.
Ugbo is rubbish and Etete is quite not ready.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WJ99mobile
I would love to see us set up differently.
Ugbo is rubbish and Etete is quite not ready.
Generally agree about Etete but thought he was showing some good form and improving his general play before the injury.
It’s very clear we need another striker and if we had managed to get Moore I think the whole team would looka lot different.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2b2bdoo
Generally agree about Etete but thought he was showing some good form and improving his general play before the injury.
It’s very clear we need another striker and if we had managed to get Moore I think the whole team would looka lot different.
Etete has the ability to turn a defender, his general play is much better than Ugbos'
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Where’s the quotes from Pep in either link you’ve posted?
Mental
It was discussed in detail at the time, the same has happened with many other players including Foden, Pep has a policy you play for the team and have to work as hard without the ball as with, and they try and win the ball back almost immediately.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2b2bdoo
I think Meite and Etete are now ahead of Ugbo, both their injuries coming at the same time didn’t help. The only other real option upfront is Robinson who he doesn’t seem to think can do it. I would be surprised not to see Meite upfront Tuesday.
I don't rate Ugbo he's not a natural goal scorer, again he is in the team because he works very hard for the team and will keep running all game for the team.
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I’ve still not seen a link where Pep is telling Grealish he won’t be picking him because he’s not doing enough when Man City don’t have the ball though.
He regularly calls players out Bob and makes them better players.
https://theathletic.com/4108864/2023...nt-a-reaction/
https://www.theguardian.com/football...0the%20highest.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...icism-26465026
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/stor...city-exclusion
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
North Cardiff Blue
It was discussed in detail at the time, the same has happened with many other players including Foden, Pep has a policy you play for the team and have to work as hard without the ball as with, and they try and win the ball back almost immediately.
Wheres the links for Foden and Grealish being lazy and they wont be getting picked then? And why are you putting up quotes from Bacary Sagna to try and prove your point? :hehe:
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Re: Robinson and Colwill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Wheres the links for Foden and Grealish being lazy and they wont be getting picked then? And why are you putting up quotes from Bacary Sagna to try and prove your point? :hehe:
Grealish has talked about it in the past himself, he didn't make the team for ages and then learned, everyone knows that?
