Kier Thatcher

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I couldn't care less if the labour party have to form a coalition with the liberals , independents and greens and whoever else

Get the Tories out

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I would and would make me consider the Tories instead

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Why does this country need Tory anything? I keep on hearing socialism’s failed and maybe it has, but it’s capitalism and deregulation that is responsible for what’s gone wrong since 2008.

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I think the most important thing is the economy (Tory mantra)

Everything else falls in behind

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Originally Posted by NinianOpinion1927

Capitalism is intertwined into socialism, if you want to eradicate Capitalism completely then you're hardleft and probably a communist.
If you don't think Brown was a socialist(i do). Can you name a country where the socialism you laud has succeeded for any length of time? And before you say Sweden, it's now the gun crime capital of Europe with voters shifting to the right over recent decades as a reaction to failed socialist policies.

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No' let's stick to what I said, not go off on a tangent because you can't or won't answer my question. I was confused by a message of yours which appeared to suggest that the 2008 crash was down to Labour following socialist policies like capitalism and de regulation of banks. The policies which helped cause 2008 were nothing to do with socialism - a Labour Government continued to follow policies pursued by the previous Conservative Government (in fact they went further than the Tories when it came to deregulation) and we paid the price because of greedy bankers given powers by the politicians of all sides throughout the west.

The idea that the Tories had to come in in 2010 to sort the economy out because of Labour's left wing policies is ludicrous as they were in full support of all of the measures taken by Labour in 2008 to try and deal with the crisis. If Labour in 2008 is to carry the can for what was a crisis of global finance, then the Conservatives will have to do the same for the whole of cost of living crisis for the last two years - I don't think that's entirely fair even if the this Government, under Truss, did directly bring on aspects of it with Kwarteng's farcical budget.

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Originally Posted by WJ99mobile

I think the most important thing is the economy (Tory mantra)

Everything else falls in behind

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And I'd say the last thirteen and a half years should have shredded any Conservative claims to be the party of economic competence.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ts-study-finds

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b0cbfd55e42037

https://neweconomics.org/2021/02/soc...010-comparison

https://www.standardlife.co.uk/about...umer-behaviour

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44926447

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

No' let's stick to what I said, not go off on a tangent because you can't or won't answer my question. I was confused by a message of yours which appeared to suggest that the 2008 crash was down to Labour following socialist policies like capitalism and de regulation of banks. The policies which helped cause 2008 were nothing to do with socialism - a Labour Government continued to follow policies pursued by the previous Conservative Government (in fact they went further than the Tories when it came to deregulation) and we paid the price because of greedy bankers given powers by the politicians of all sides throughout the west.

The idea that the Tories had to come in in 2010 to sort the economy out because of Labour's left wing policies is ludicrous as they were in full support of all of the measures taken by Labour in 2008 to try and deal with the crisis. If Labour in 2008 is to carry the can for what was a crisis of global finance, then the Conservatives will have to do the same for the whole of cost of living crisis for the last two years - I don't think that's entirely fair even if the this Government, under Truss, did directly bring on aspects of it with Kwarteng's farcical budget.

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You can't blame the Conservatives for what Labour didn't do in their tenure. They had the chance to regulate the banks but Gordon Brown did something far worse, he poured petrol on the banking fire by repeatedly claiming to have ended the boom n bust cycle. This gave the banks and general public encouragment to risk huge amounts building up debts with no regard to any future economic bust because our Labour chancelor kept reassuring everyone that an economic bust wasn't possible.
I do recall sone Conservatives at the time saying that ending the boom bust cycle was nonsense but Brown was in charge. That was his first contribution to making the global financial crisis worse for Britain. His second contribution was ripping up his own rules and borrowing more to spend on an ever increasing public sector. This is what Labour do and why Conservatives are needed cyclically to cut waste in a bloated public sector. That extra borrowing by Labour made the global crash harder for Britain to deal with when the time to borrow and bail out banks came. That was Labour's fault for not fixing the roof when the sun was shining.
Britain is now in a mess and economically strained due to 3 separate massive incidents. The financial crash, the pandemic with lockdowns, Ukraine war causing inflation to soar. This country is ìn a mess and i can't see how Labour would've dealt with the pandemic or Ukraine any better. Infact, Labour would have almost certainly spent more and locked down the economy harder. People generally say that Britain turns to the Conservatives in times requiring fiscal restraint then turns to Labour when feeling flush. Britain isn't geeling flush and won't be for a long time so it'll be interesting how this GE pans out. If Labour win they'll open the borders and build massively on the green belt to stimulate growth. For me that is irresponsible, bad for the environment and unforgivable. You didn't answer my question as to whether you're a communist or a socialist. If you're a socialist then you believe in capitalism to a degree

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Originally Posted by goats

Sounds like 1997

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Has Blair given Starmer his vote of confidence yet?

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Originally Posted by Robin Friday's Ghost

Has Blair given Starmer his vote of confidence yet?

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I'm pretty sure he has, recently there was even talk of a Blair come back in some capacity. Maybe some country in the back of beyond needs bombing. Good ole Tony is that man who can

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Well you have already jumped ship so move along

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You are everything that's wrong with working class voters in this country. Demand nothing of Labour and consequently get nothing.

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Originally Posted by NinianOpinion1927

You can't blame the Conservatives for what Labour didn't do in their tenure. They had the chance to regulate the banks but Gordon Brown did something far worse, he poured petrol on the banking fire by repeatedly claiming to have ended the boom n bust cycle. This gave the banks and general public encouragment to risk huge amounts building up debts with no regard to any future economic bust because our Labour chancelor kept reassuring everyone that an economic bust wasn't possible.
I do recall sone Conservatives at the time saying that ending the boom bust cycle was nonsense but Brown was in charge. That was his first contribution to making the global financial crisis worse for Britain. His second contribution was ripping up his own rules and borrowing more to spend on an ever increasing public sector. This is what Labour do and why Conservatives are needed cyclically to cut waste in a bloated public sector. That extra borrowing by Labour made the global crash harder for Britain to deal with when the time to borrow and bail out banks came. That was Labour's fault for not fixing the roof when the sun was shining.
Britain is now in a mess and economically strained due to 3 separate massive incidents. The financial crash, the pandemic with lockdowns, Ukraine war causing inflation to soar. This country is ìn a mess and i can't see how Labour would've dealt with the pandemic or Ukraine any better. Infact, Labour would have almost certainly spent more and locked down the economy harder. People generally say that Britain turns to the Conservatives in times requiring fiscal restraint then turns to Labour when feeling flush. Britain isn't geeling flush and won't be for a long time so it'll be interesting how this GE pans out. If Labour win they'll open the borders and build massively on the green belt to stimulate growth. For me that is irresponsible, bad for the environment and unforgivable. You didn't answer my question as to whether you're a communist or a socialist. If you're a socialist then you believe in capitalism to a degree

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Did you see those links I posted in another message showing how we're worse off now than we were in 2010? Studies dating before 2020 (before the three events you mention) show something similar.

I'd say I'm a socialist and I agree that there's a place for capitalism, but 2008 had far more to do with the politics of the right than the left. -

The 2008 crash was more to do with lending too much money out and not getting it paid back. We need a Party who will cut wastage and will reward hard work and entrepreneurism. Forget labelling, the new left wing has become the new right wing and visa versa. Reform for me, the Cons/Lab/Lib/SNP have all merged into one party.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Why does this country need Tory anything? I keep on hearing socialism’s failed and maybe it has, but it’s capitalism and deregulation that is responsible for what’s gone wrong since 2008.

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:) So nothing to do with Gordon Brown from 1997-2010 with his "light touch on the tiller" of financial regulations then ?. Nothing to do with PFI scheme's either that were kept off the books, when in reality meant hospitals cost three times the price to build.

Sounds like you have gone to Spec savers and bought a pair of rose tinted glasses.

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Originally Posted by pipster

:) So nothing to do with Gordon Brown from 1997-2010 with his "light touch on the tiller" of financial regulations then ?. Nothing to do with PFI scheme's either that were kept off the books, when in reality meant hospitals cost three times the price to build.

Sounds like you have gone to Spec savers and bought a pair of rose tinted glasses.

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No, not if it means that capitalism and deregulation is excluded - if you want to make Labour solely responsible for 2008, then you have to accept that the Tories are responsible for all of the cost of living crisis. The Tories can talk, with some justification, of other worldwide factors contributing to the cost of living crisis and it’s only right that Labour can say the same when it comes to 2008 although, in both cases, the Government of the day have to accept their share of responsibility for what happened.