What do you understand a FUNDAMENTALIST to be?

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Jordi – in answer to your first question, no, I did not hold those qualities before I became a Christian. I was intolerant, judgemental and very lacking in compassion! I am ashamed to admit it but on occasions these traits can occasionally still creep into my mind when I observe what is going on in the world. My main negative reaction these days is anger, anger at all the injustices in the world. I can even get angry with God which is stupid really as the things I get angry about are man-made, but I guess he is big enough to take it.

Re your second question: I am very wary of far right American Christians, not that I know any personally but from what I observe on TV and also from some of the YouTube videos that are out there. One sickening image I remember was of Donald Trump waving a Bible about in front of a church in the USA somewhere. The verse that comes to mind is: By their deeds you will know them. Does a man gather grapes from thorns or figs from briars?” (Matthew 7:16).

The story in the link you provided is quite shocking. As I’ve said before, Jesus came with a new covenant which supercedes the OT covenant. It was quite common in OT days for folk to sacrifice animals as burnt offerings to God as atonement for their sins but Jesus himself was ultimately the supreme sacrifice so this practice is no longer necessary.

The OT takes sin very seriously, as a contamination that can disrupt the good order God places in creation and that can potentially cause chaos in the world. To cleanse sin from the community, life was required. I think Moses who gave the laws to the people was overzealous in his understanding of what God wanted. It was very important to keep order especially when the Jews were involved in the exodus. Of course, it’s very difficult for us 21st century folk to get our head around these ancient customs. Maybe this is where these American Christian Nationalists are getting their ideas from i.e. remove offenders from society (permanently) in order to maintain social order!

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Cheers for your very personal contribution. Takes something to do that on an open forum but I guess you're happy answering any questions.

If religion/Christianity works for you then great. I've no problem with people's personal beliefs, it's a bit colloquial and probably simplistic but "whatever floats your boat..."

I obviously 'don't believe' but do recognise religion can make some people better personalities for whatever reasons that maybe.

I'm an atheist but there again so was Han Solo.

I live with a church goer and alhough we have had theological discussions it's never descended into argument and they've never felt the need to suggest my lifestyle or beliefs are wrong.

I do take issue with any religious groups/parties who try to set an agenda or pass down doctrines on others where my use of the term 'fundamentalist' was used, with a negative view. You've taken your time to clear that up and we've agreed the term can be construed and interpreted in different ways with a number of meanings.

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Originally Posted by Dave Blue

Faith is accepting something even though you haven’t seen it. Surely you can grasp that? Don’t you think there must be something in ‘these fairy stories’ you easily dismiss that has brought people to faith for 2000 years when other ‘fairy stories’ don’t last 2 minutes? There is little ‘control’ on our lives these days yet this faith survives and is prospering all over the world. A bit deep to dismiss casually as bollocks don’t you think?

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It’s hardly surviving is it? Barely anyone under 75 goes to church. Religion causes far more issues than it solves in my eyes. The only young people I know that became religious were lost souls, desperately seeking help somehow be it from drugs, abuse or a bad upbringing…..

Fundamentalist:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...allowed-caning

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Originally Posted by goats

Love to know what you have done in fact? Or have you just become a decent person after realising you were just a bellend before? I dint mean to jump to conclusions but it’s something I’ve seen first hand with a few born again I know….

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Let's just say I have "gone the extra mile" many, many times, something which I would never even have considered before. As you say, changed lives are the hallmarks of born-again Christians.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Christians always come out with this Jesus said this when he spoke to the disciples etc etc

How do they know what this Jesus character said ?

It was 2000 years ago for gawds sake and what he was supposed to have said was sometimes reported several hundred years after his death

I mean if I was going to devote my life to someone I would want more evidence than what may have been said 2000 years ago

According to Jesus, Jesus taught us , John said when speaking to the Hebrews......etc etc

Seriously at least science proves that if you don't drink water for 2 weeks you will snuff it .......fact

It's all fairy tales and religious people are being conned

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Sludge - I suspect if Jesus turned up at your house tomorrow you would still not accept it was all true - you would dismiss it as an hallucination/a conjuring trick/a hologram/a dream or a Tory scam.

BTW this often quoted old tale that the gospels were written hundreds of years after his death simply won't wash anymore, more like 50 to 60 years max. If anyone wanted to talk to me about significant events that happened 60 years I would easily be able to recall them. Obviously it would be my recollection of the event, other people would, I suspect, have a slightly different recollection - no surprise there. Examples would be the Cuban missile crisis (1962), the winter of 1962/63 and the assassination of JFK in 1963.

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Originally Posted by Jordi Culé

Cheers for your very personal contribution. Takes something to do that on an open forum but I guess you're happy answering any questions.

If religion/Christianity works for you then great. I've no problem with people's personal beliefs, it's a bit colloquial and probably simplistic but "whatever floats your boat..."

I obviously 'don't believe' but do recognise religion can make some people better personalities for whatever reasons that maybe.

I'm an atheist but there again so was Han Solo.

I live with a church goer and alhough we have had theological discussions it's never descended into argument and they've never felt the need to suggest my lifestyle or beliefs are wrong.

I do take issue with any religious groups/parties who try to set an agenda or pass down doctrines on others where my use of the term 'fundamentalist' was used, with a negative view. You've taken your time to clear that up and we've agreed the term can be construed and interpreted in different ways with a number of meanings.

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No problem, always happy to share my views with others and never afraid of having my faith challenged. However as I always say, judge me by my actions not my words - somewhat difficult on an Internet forum of course! There must now be many people on this forum who have been exposed to Christian thinking (1650 views of this thread to date but only 44 replies, mostly from the same dozen or so people). In a sense that's all I can do then, I have shared the gospel as Jesus requires of his followers but the rest is up to them.

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Originally Posted by goats

It does amaze me somewhat that people actually believe the stuff written about a bloke called Jesus 2000 yrs ago, it’s more than likely all bollocks, like most old stories, which seem to grow in obscureness as the years roll by. Not forgetting that the church used fear to rule so would regularly peddle lies and mis information to control the people. Lastly, stuff that was relevant so long ago, really isn’t now.
Morals and being kind, curtious etc will always be in favour but looking how beliefs of just 20/30 years ago are not tolerated anymore and some that might have you clipped 100 yrs ago, like being gay, are now fine, make stuff written so long ago almost completely irrelevant. You will never see that though….I fully get that…

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In pretty short supply in this country these days I find. For example, our politicians aren't setting particularly good standards of morals, kindness or courtesy. Also this forum can sometimes be a microcosm in that regard!:hide:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Fundamentalist:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...allowed-caning

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The characteristics of a Christian are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Ask your self: by her actions does this woman fit this description?

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Originally Posted by goats

It’s hardly surviving is it? Barely anyone under 75 goes to church. Religion causes far more issues than it solves in my eyes. The only young people I know that became religious were lost souls, desperately seeking help somehow be it from drugs, abuse or a bad upbringing…..

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Really?

Is that a bad thing then?

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

The characteristics of a Christian are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Ask your self: by her actions does this woman fit this description?

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She fits my description of a fundamentalst.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

The characteristics of a Christian are love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Ask your self: by her actions does this woman fit this description?

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That doesn't exactly describe the most vociferous member of your flock on here who described my evidencing his misquoting of other posters as being Hamas-like.

Groups that highjack decent societies to then push their agenda only , based on their narrow view of a principles that a free , decent and inclusive society does not want .

I don't mind that being a thing in their own lands , churches and societies just keep it away from my world and children partially the ones that die in incidents like the Manchester Arena bombing .

Strangely Fundamentalist highjack the gullible in life , in particularly socialists parties and open/free democratic societies like the UK .

They don't allow Christians' , gay , free speech fundamental rights in their own lands , and even within thier own households in the UK .

I laugh at the fact that folk like LGBTQIA+ - ++ -- etc. join these marches not knowing a thing about the very societies /people they march alongside these organizations are hate preachers , they hate LGBTQIA+ communities , free speech, Christianity ( in fact they murder /massacre them in their home lands , and treat woman as dirt ) .

From the river to the sea , evil , buggers .

Has anyone seen a suicide Jewish bomber in the UK ??????

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Originally Posted by jon1959

She fits my description of a fundamentalist.

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Other fundamentalist : hate woman's rights , gays , free speech , Jews , Christians , any forthright views on that ?

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

In pretty short supply in this country these days I find. For example, our politicians aren't setting particularly good standards of morals, kindness or courtesy. Also this forum can sometimes be a microcosm in that regard!:hide:

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Don’t ever look at politicians as a benchmark for society surely? Absolute freaks of nature most of them, so out of touch with anything real. We really need a new political system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrfVUqzPTMw

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Originally Posted by jon1959

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrfVUqzPTMw

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That was as funny as fcuk.:hehe:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

People have been indoctrinated by the state, by conquering powers and their community regarding religions and millions of people believe in dogmas other than Christianity. Indeed, even Abrahamism has such deep schisms that they perceived the role of Jesus differently.
Christianity was transported around Europe by the Roman Empire and by subsequent colonial expansion from countries that were under the yoke of that Empire originally.
Language travelled along that same conduit and that's why most South Americans speak Spanish and are Catholics by default - and let's not forget than non-believers around the world were punished for being non-believers (or deemed as being punished in various types of hell) and persecuted for expounding a different model of the universe than stated in various religious tomes.
The Bible didn't land in Earth in the format it is now and has been tinkered with, edited, parts thrown out and those parts remain are often contradictory, ridiculously fanciful (talking snakes, talking donkeys, virgin births etc) and are merely the product of bronze age primitivity. The various authors thereof knew very little, if anything, about microbes, atoms, electricity, plate tectonics, the universe and a million other things.
A great many of stories in the Bible were lifted from preceding religions, which few adherents seem to know about or take on board.
It's fascinating folklore but it's not stand-alone stuff if you study religion. And religion has not been a free choice historically. Children have been indoctrinated by fear and reward of religions in their communities for millennia. It's no coincidence that believers tend to follow the religion of their immediate community rather than have an overview of world religions. It's indoctrination and without sufficient proof for critical thinkers.
To believe in a talking snake and the Garden of Eden (also lifted from previous religions) is pure unquestioning gullibility - just as many of the stories are. People in other cultures and who have been similarly indoctrinated still believe in a god with an elephant's head and gods who are polar bears and lizards. It's just a case of unquestioning belief in something that unknown primitive people came up with.
I can't remember having a discussion with any believers who acknowledge that their religion was grafted from a preceding one as they tend not to look into things that much and merely see their version of their religion as a template for all else to fit in with. Funnily enough, their religion and schism thereof, is usually the first one they are exposed to as a child.
I would be surprised if you were to come across a member of the Inuit people who believed in Shiva, someone raised as a Catholic in Cardiff who believed in the polar bear god or someone from Outer Mongolia who believed in Wodin or Janus.
The language we speak and the religions we traditionally worshipped throughout history are merely cultural appropriations.
Fascinating - but it's folklore.

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Apart from the appalling liar that is 'truthpaste' what do Christians on here think about regarding:

1.The Noah's Ark story mimmicking the Sumerian legend of Ziusudra, the subsequent Old Babylonian story of Atrahasisand the story of Ushnapistim. In those cases the world was flooded due to the gods being angry with human beings.

2. The story of Moses mimicking that of Sargon, who was put in a basket in the river.

3. The story of Job mimicking that of Ludlul-bēl-Numēqi.

4. The story of the Garden of Eden and having to leave it naked due to falling victim to temptation mimicking the story of Enkidu.

5. The story of Jonah mimicking that of Saktideva.

6. The story of the tower of Babel in preceding Hindu and Armenian culture?

7. The Moses story mimicking that of Dionysus.

8. Abraham offering up his son mimicking that of Harishchandra.

9. The Holy Trinity mimicking that of Brahma, Vishnu, And Shiva.

10. The Ten Commandments mimmicking much of the Egyptian Bookof The Dead.

11. The narrative of the Apocalypse largely mimicking the Zoroastrian stoty of the “Frashokereti”.

12. Jesus' compassion for the sick and poor and the creator of miracles mimicking the story of Asclepius.

13. The character of Samson mimicking the Sumerian Enkidu and the Greek Heracles.

14. The concept of the struggle of good against evil and demons mimicking the story of Zoroastrianism.

15. The virgin birth mimicking that of Zoroaster and Erichthonius.

16. The act of turning water into wine mimicking that of Dionysus.

17. The story of Abraham mimicking that of Harishchandra.

18. Jesus not being seduced by temptation mimicking the story of Siddhārtha.

19. The Book of Proverbs mimicking the Instruction of Amenemope.

On the other hand there is no proof whatsoever about the Biblical virgin birth, a talking snake, a talking donkey, anyone being turned to salt, Noah living until he was 950, the universe being created within a week, the ground under St David miraculously rising so that he could address a crowd, people rising from the dead (and there were lots of them described in the Bible), the parting of the Red Sea and a lot else.

Religions are fascinating folklore but that's exactly what they are - and how anyone can believe them as being literal in the 21st century when they were collated by people who had little or no idea about atoms, plate tectonics, bacteria, space-time, electricity, evolution and all the other things we know about now, I don't know. Well, I do really. It's down to indoctrination as a child.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

That doesn't exactly describe the most vociferous member of your flock on here who described my evidencing his misquoting of other posters as being Hamas-like.

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Twist away BG. Nobody is taken in by your distorted whining.
I said the rabbit holes you create are at the same level as Hamas, yet you twisted that round to imply that I was likening you to Hamas themselves! Really!! Is that all you've got?

Talk about desperation :facepalm:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Apart from the appalling liar that is 'truthpaste' what do Christians on here think about regarding:

1.The Noah's Ark story mimmicking the Sumerian legend of Ziusudra, the subsequent Old Babylonian story of Atrahasisand the story of Ushnapistim. In those cases the world was flooded due to the gods being angry with human beings.

2. The story of Moses mimicking that of Sargon, who was put in a basket in the river.

3. The story of Job mimicking that of Ludlul-bēl-Numēqi.

4. The story of the Garden of Eden and having to leave it naked due to falling victim to temptation mimicking the story of Enkidu.

5. The story of Jonah mimicking that of Saktideva.

6. The story of the tower of Babel in preceding Hindu and Armenian culture?

7. The Moses story mimicking that of Dionysus.

8. Abraham offering up his son mimicking that of Harishchandra.

9. The Holy Trinity mimicking that of Brahma, Vishnu, And Shiva.

10. The Ten Commandments mimmicking much of the Egyptian Bookof The Dead.

11. The narrative of the Apocalypse largely mimicking the Zoroastrian stoty of the “Frashokereti”.

12. Jesus' compassion for the sick and poor and the creator of miracles mimicking the story of Asclepius.

13. The character of Samson mimicking the Sumerian Enkidu and the Greek Heracles.

14. The concept of the struggle of good against evil and demons mimicking the story of Zoroastrianism.

15. The virgin birth mimicking that of Zoroaster and Erichthonius.

16. The act of turning water into wine mimicking that of Dionysus.

17. The story of Abraham mimicking that of Harishchandra.

18. Jesus not being seduced by temptation mimicking the story of Siddhārtha.

19. The Book of Proverbs mimicking the Instruction of Amenemope.

On the other hand there is no proof whatsoever about the Biblical virgin birth, a talking snake, a talking donkey, anyone being turned to salt, Noah living until he was 950, the universe being created within a week, the ground under St David miraculously rising so that he could address a crowd, people rising from the dead (and there were lots of them described in the Bible), the parting of the Red Sea and a lot else.

Religions are fascinating folklore but that's exactly what they are - and how anyone can believe them as being literal in the 21st century when they were collated by people who had little or no idea about atoms, plate tectonics, bacteria, space-time, electricity, evolution and all the other things we know about now, I don't know. Well, I do really. It's down to indoctrination as a child.

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So you've bought into Evolution as absolute truth and rejected man-made religion for what it is, just as flawed as evolution.
Like many Roman Catholics (which you may or may not have been), you have rejected it as one big mess. Join a long confused queue, that is hardly unique.

What Gofer (and others) have here is nothing to do with that, and the sooner you can spot the difference, the less irrational and confused you will be.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

So you've bought into Evolution as absolute truth and rejected man-made religion for what it is, just as flawed as evolution.
Like many Roman Catholics (which you may or may not have been), you have rejected it as one big mess. Join a long confused queue, that is hardly unique.

What Gofer (and others) have here is nothing to do with that, and the sooner you can spot the difference, the less irrational and confused you will be.

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How incredibly laughable that is coming from someone who believes in a talking snake!

And, as usual, and as I have proven previously, you misquoted me. Your lies are tiresome.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

How incredibly laughable that is coming from someone who believes in a talking snake!

And, as usual, and as I have proven previously, you misquoted me. Your lies are tiresome.

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As usual, all froth, 100% whining, no content.

Is that all you can produce after 2 days?

Your delusion is complete.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Your delusion is complete.

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Irony has risen again! :hehe:

A fundamentalist is someone who sticks very strictly to the basic teachings or beliefs of their religion or ideology etc. They usually take these teachings very seriously and don't like to change them or see them interpreted in new ways. They might prefer things to be done the same way they were traditionally done and might not be open to new ideas or changes - unfortunately.

But on the other side of the coin - that then means you have blokes wanting to identify as women, who can have a penis and go on the Labour party women only list for a constituency. Most of us seem to be in the middle - but it's the ones on either extreme that gets the light

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Irony has risen again! :hehe:

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If you think you have a robust world view then let's hear it?

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

If you think you have a robust world view then let's hear it?

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I have, thank you.

I think we live in a physical world that operates to certain scientific laws that we are slowly starting to understand.

I do not believe there are any gods or fairies in the mix.

We are born. We live and achieve consciousness. We die. The end.

But my comment - the one that drew your deflecting response - was pointing out that if anyone on this board deserves the label of deluded, it is you. But self-awareness must be difficult with a closed mind and fetishising a book of bronze age folk tales.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I have, thank you.

I think we live in a physical world that operates to certain scientific laws that we are slowly starting to understand.

I do not believe there are any gods or fairies in the mix.

We are born. We live and achieve consciousness. We die. The end.

But my comment - the one that drew your deflecting response - was pointing out that if anyone on this board deserves the label of deluded, it is you. But self-awareness must be difficult with a closed mind and fetishising a book of bronze age folk tales.

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I've heard all those cut & paste insults for decades, so don't waste your limited time.
Science is extremely slow, but it's catching up slowly. Unfortunately science only has a maximum ceiling of how, not why.
As a result, you don't know why you exist or where you ulimately come from, and that's just for starters.
Your world-view, as I suspected, is redundant.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

I've heard all those cut & paste insults for decades, so don't waste your limited time.
Science is extremely slow, but it's catching up slowly. Unfortunately science only has a maximum ceiling of how, not why.
As a result, you don't know why you exist or where you ulimately come from, and that's just for starters.
Your world-view, as I suspected, is redundant.

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Ouch!

My world view is redundant is it?

However, I may just be able to live with the crushing disappointment of your judgement.

In fact, being dismissed by a swivel-eyed apologist for ethnic cleansing is quite uplifting.

Thanks! :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

Ouch!

My world view is redundant is it?

However, I may just be able to live with the crushing disappointment of your judgement.

In fact, being dismissed by a swivel-eyed apologist for ethnic cleansing is quite uplifting.

Thanks! :thumbup:

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Nothing left but insults, that's as surprising as United collapsing this afternoon.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

That doesn't exactly describe the most vociferous member of your flock on here who described my evidencing his misquoting of other posters as being Hamas-like.

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I suspect he would own up, as I would, to fall a long way short of the sort of people Jesus wants us to be. If you find someone who ticks all the boxes let me know, because I would love to meet him/her!

For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

Apart from the appalling liar that is 'truthpaste' what do Christians on here think about regarding:

1.The Noah's Ark story mimmicking the Sumerian legend of Ziusudra, the subsequent Old Babylonian story of Atrahasisand the story of Ushnapistim. In those cases the world was flooded due to the gods being angry with human beings.

2. The story of Moses mimicking that of Sargon, who was put in a basket in the river.

3. The story of Job mimicking that of Ludlul-bēl-Numēqi.

4. The story of the Garden of Eden and having to leave it naked due to falling victim to temptation mimicking the story of Enkidu.

5. The story of Jonah mimicking that of Saktideva.

6. The story of the tower of Babel in preceding Hindu and Armenian culture?

7. The Moses story mimicking that of Dionysus.

8. Abraham offering up his son mimicking that of Harishchandra.

9. The Holy Trinity mimicking that of Brahma, Vishnu, And Shiva.

10. The Ten Commandments mimmicking much of the Egyptian Bookof The Dead.

11. The narrative of the Apocalypse largely mimicking the Zoroastrian stoty of the “Frashokereti”.

12. Jesus' compassion for the sick and poor and the creator of miracles mimicking the story of Asclepius.

13. The character of Samson mimicking the Sumerian Enkidu and the Greek Heracles.

14. The concept of the struggle of good against evil and demons mimicking the story of Zoroastrianism.

15. The virgin birth mimicking that of Zoroaster and Erichthonius.

16. The act of turning water into wine mimicking that of Dionysus.

17. The story of Abraham mimicking that of Harishchandra.

18. Jesus not being seduced by temptation mimicking the story of Siddhārtha.

19. The Book of Proverbs mimicking the Instruction of Amenemope.

On the other hand there is no proof whatsoever about the Biblical virgin birth, a talking snake, a talking donkey, anyone being turned to salt, Noah living until he was 950, the universe being created within a week, the ground under St David miraculously rising so that he could address a crowd, people rising from the dead (and there were lots of them described in the Bible), the parting of the Red Sea and a lot else.

Religions are fascinating folklore but that's exactly what they are - and how anyone can believe them as being literal in the 21st century when they were collated by people who had little or no idea about atoms, plate tectonics, bacteria, space-time, electricity, evolution and all the other things we know about now, I don't know. Well, I do really. It's down to indoctrination as a child.

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I note you use the word mimicking in each of your examples.

I suppose my reply to all this supposed plagiarism would have to be…why? i.e. why would a Hebrew author need to do that? Indeed, would he have had knowledge of these examples as they were presumably written in different languages in different places at different times? Also should it be surprising that the recording of some of these different events may have happened elsewhere e.g. the flood – if this was a universal catastrophe then there may have been other survivors in other countries who would have recorded the same event? I bet Job was not the only person on the planet to be angry with God because he had a raw deal in life!

I wonder if any of the other writers of the events you list prophesised the coming of the Messiah, Jesus Christ, God in human form, as the writers of the book of Isaiah did? (I understand that there may have been several writers who contributed to this book). IMO this book is one of the most important in the OT as it points to the coming of Christ although it was written at least 400 years before that. This would beg the question what text did the author(s) “mimic” when this book was written if we follow the plagiarism line that you are proposing. I would be interested to know.

You ask…how anyone can believe these stories as being literal in the 21st century when they were collated by people who had little or no idea about atoms, plate tectonics, bacteria, space-time, electricity, evolution and all the other things we know about now, I don't know. Well, I do really. It's down to indoctrination as a child.

Well, modern man may know a lot about atoms, plate tectonics, bacteria, space-time, electricity, evolution and all the other things we know about now, but he has learned precious little about the basic but important things that Jesus spoke about like justice, self-control, selflessness, envy, greed, hate and aggression. Indeed we seem to be in reverse rather than "evolving" into perfection or maybe you haven’t noticed how things are going lately?

As to indoctrination of a child, that’s possible of course but children do grow up to be questioning teenagers/adults!

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

I note you use the word mimicking in each of your examples.

I suppose my reply to all this supposed plagiarism would have to be…why? i.e. why would a Hebrew author need to do that? Indeed, would he have had knowledge of these examples as they were presumably written in different languages in different places at different times? Also should it be surprising that the recording of some of these different events may have happened elsewhere e.g. the flood – if this was a universal catastrophe then there may have been other survivors in other countries who would have recorded the same event? I bet Job was not the only person on the planet to be angry with God because he had a raw deal in life!

I wonder if any of the other writers of the events you list prophesised the coming of the Messiah, Jesus Christ, God in human form, as the writers of the book of Isaiah did? (I understand that there may have been several writers who contributed to this book). IMO this book is one of the most important in the OT as it points to the coming of Christ although it was written at least 400 years before that. This would beg the question what text did the author(s) “mimic” when this book was written if we follow the plagiarism line that you are proposing. I would be interested to know.

You ask…how anyone can believe these stories as being literal in the 21st century when they were collated by people who had little or no idea about atoms, plate tectonics, bacteria, space-time, electricity, evolution and all the other things we know about now, I don't know. Well, I do really. It's down to indoctrination as a child.

Well, modern man may know a lot about atoms, plate tectonics, bacteria, space-time, electricity, evolution and all the other things we know about now, but he has learned precious little about the basic but important things that Jesus spoke about like justice, self-control, selflessness, envy, greed, hate and aggression. Indeed we seem to be in reverse rather than "evolving" into perfection or maybe you haven’t noticed how things are going lately?

As to indoctrination of a child, that’s possible of course but children do grow up to be questioning teenagers/adults!

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As I said, the nature of folklore is that it builds on previous folklore (and it's no coincidence that Christian festivities adopted themes from paganism e.g. Christmas being piggy-backed onto Saturnalia and Easter being named after a pagan godess!)

The concept of human messiahs existed in Zoroastrianism and not in Abrahamism. And there are probably many, many more examples around the world than this simple soul can think of off the top of his head, no doubt!

And considering that Judaism doesn't even recognise your Messiah and that there were many others in the region to make a claim to that concept, your argument doesn't stand up.

You really seem to have no idea about the world outside your indoctrinated bubble and the global cultural context that it sits in.

By the way, do you actually believe in the talking snake, the talking donkey, the virgin birth, Jesus being the Messiah and people being turned to salt? A simple 'yes' or'no' will suffice - and if so, what evidence is there for those things? Something written in a so-called holy book is not evidence as such, by the way. Self-fulfilling prophecies in a book that refer back to a book itself and which contains nonsense, proven fiction, sheer fantasy and laughable tales (and which is wriiten largely by unknown individuals reported hearsay in an era when the vast population were illiterate and parochial) does not constitute evidence to a thinking person, regardless of whether it satisfies you personally.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

As I said, the nature of folklore is that it builds on previous folklore (and it's no coincidence that Christian festivities adopted themes from paganism e.g. Christmas being piggy-backed onto Saturnalia and Easter being named after a pagan godess!)

The concept of human messiahs existed in Zoroastrianism and not in Abrahamism. And there are probably many, many more examples around the world than this simple soul can think of off the top of his head, no doubt!

And considering that Judaism doesn't even recognise your Messiah and that there were many others in the region to make a claim to that concept, your argument doesn't stand up.

You really seem to have no idea about the world outside your indoctrinated bubble and the global cultural context that it sits in.

By the way, do you actually believe in the talking snake, the talking donkey, the virgin birth, Jesus being the Messiah and people being turned to salt? A simple 'yes' or'no' will suffice - and if so, what evidence is there for those things? Something written in a so-called holy book is not evidence as such, by the way. Self-fulfilling prophecies in a book that refer back to a book itself and which contains nonsense, proven fiction, sheer fantasy and laughable tales (and which is wriiten largely by unknown individuals reported hearsay in an era when the vast population were illiterate and parochial) does not constitute evidence to a thinking person, regardless of whether it satisfies you personally.

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Oops. I meant 'before'

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

I suspect he would own up, as I would, to fall a long way short of the sort of people Jesus wants us to be. If you find someone who ticks all the boxes let me know, because I would love to meet him/her!

For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

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Indeed, a Christian isn't some sort of goody-goody. While their morals should be better than you'd expect from your average citizen and their life aims very different indeed, they will let God, relatives and friends down as we all do.

The key difference between them and others is this, they've admitted their lives do fall short, they are NOT a good person (by God's definition) and because of this they realise they need and have then sought - and at some point - found a Saviour, in fact the only individual that can save them from falling into the Hands of the Living God, and that is The Lord Jesus Christ.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Twist away BG. Nobody is taken in by your distorted whining.
I said the rabbit holes you create are at the same level as Hamas, yet you twisted that round to imply that I was likening you to Hamas themselves! Really!! Is that all you've got?

Talk about desperation :facepalm:

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No rabbit holes. No twisting of your words regardless of your proven twisting of mine on several occasions (and quoted in 'direct speech' I reproduced to boot.

And you highlighted comment above just about says everything about you. A total hypocrite for someone who supposedly espouses Christianity. I have a number of Christian friends who would find your simile as totally outrageous and highly offensive - and if you had any decency you would retract it and be severely embarrassed. No hope of that though.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

No rabbit holes. No twisting of your words regardless of your proven twisting of mine on several occasions (and quoted in 'direct speech' I reproduced to boot.

And you highlighted comment above just about says everything about you. A total hypocrite for someone who supposedly espouses Christianity. I have a number of Christian friends who would find your simile as totally outrageous and highly offensive - and if you had any decency you would retract it and be severely embarrassed. No hope of that though.

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If all rabbit holes were produced for evil intent like those in Gaza are, then you may have a point.
The quality and extent of rabbit holes have NO connection with evil on their own.
So me saying the quality of your rabbit holes being up there with the quality of those in Gaza is just that.
It is only you, desperately seeking to pin any blame on anyone associated with Christ that is the issue here.
The fact that you are still trying to muddy the waters with this nonsense is only verifying my point.

So keep digging!

Holes won't appear on their own :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

If all rabbit holes were produced for evil intent like those in Gaza are, then you may have a point.
The quality and extent of rabbit holes have NO connection with evil on their own.
So me saying the quality of your rabbit holes being up there with the quality of those in Gaza is just that.
It is only you, desperately seeking to pin any blame on anyone associated with Christ that is the issue here.
The fact that you are still trying to muddy the waters with this nonsense is only verifying my point.

So keep digging!

Holes won't appear on their own :thumbup:

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You are a disgusting hypocrite and a serial, and proven liar. You are an absolute disgrace to decent Christians and an idiot to boot.

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

You are a disgusting hypocrite and a serial, and proven liar. You are an absolute disgrace to decent Christians and an idiot to boot.

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:thumbup:Well said, he accused me aswel.:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Taunton Blue Genie

You are a disgusting hypocrite and a serial, and proven liar. You are an absolute disgrace to decent Christians and an idiot to boot.

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Very amusing, from someone who has no idea what a Christian is.
How could you then suddenly be an authority on what a good one is?

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Originally Posted by jeepster

:thumbup:Well said, he accused me aswel.:thumbup:

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The growing victim culture strikes again!

What exactly do you think you've been accused of?