Could Ramsey's absence be beneficial?

Think this is just cherry picking stats to suit an agenda tbh.

He opened up the Bristol City defence for the equaliser in his first league game back after a lay off, was really good against Plymouth in his first league start since his lay off then was nothing special in 90 minutes combined against Burnley and Hull. That automatically puts him above most of our midfielders.

Ramsey hasn't looked off the pace to me at all bar the obvious taking time to get up to speed after a 5 month lay off. He'll be a big miss when you look at the alternatives.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

While the others should be residing in the knacker’s yard!

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Ramsey doesn't jockey for the ball like he used to.

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Originally Posted by Rock_Flock_of_Five

Ramsey doesn't jockey for the ball like he used to.

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Doesn’t look like he’ll be getting the bit between his teeth any time soon, if at all, either.

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Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub

Think this is just cherry picking stats to suit an agenda tbh.

He opened up the Bristol City defence for the equaliser in his first league game back after a lay off, was really good against Plymouth in his first league start since his lay off then was nothing special in 90 minutes combined against Burnley and Hull.

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He didn't play against Hull.

Agenda? Yes, that's right, I have an anti-Aaron Ramsey agenda.

For ****'s sake, this board is hard work at times...

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

He didn't play against Hull.

Agenda? Yes, that's right, I have an anti-Aaron Ramsey agenda.

For ****'s sake, this board is hard work at times...

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Sorry, meant Burnley and Luton combined.

Agenda the wrong word maybe but feels like cherry picking a few stats to suit an opinion.

Not sure how anyone can watch games and feel Ramsey is a problem with the alternatives...

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Originally Posted by TheBirchgrovePub

Sorry, meant Burnley and Luton combined.

Agenda the wrong word maybe but feels like cherry picking a few stats to suit an opinion.

Not sure how anyone can watch games and feel Ramsey is a problem with the alternatives...

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Thing is, Ramsey can't play two games in a week, which has meant Riza has had to chop and change the line-up to accommodate him, and I reckon he's done so more because of who Aaron Ramsey is rather than what he has been bringing to the team, but I appreciate that's an opinion others wouldn't agree with.

Leaving aside the injury issues, I just don't think he's very effective at this level at the age of 34. A player of his age needs to be really fit to still make a mark in this division, and with the best will in the world Ramsey isn't and hasn't.

Anyway, it's just an opinion. We haven't achieved a single victory when Ramsey's played this season (apart from a cup game that was eventually won on penalties), so things are unlikely to get any worse now he's out. Whether they'll get any better is another matter.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

It may be beneficial due to the fact that he’s head & shoulders above the rest of the abysmal lot. Without him at least the team will be on the same ‘football brain’ level. You could place Messi alongside any 10 of our squad and he’d look completely out of touch. I know they were a lot younger, although Ramsey was recovering from a serious injury, but the few games they played together him & Bellamy complemented each other due to their different ability to the others.

It’s horses for courses, Ramsey is Ascot, the others are Ely Racecourse.

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Ramsey is finished, and we can polish it up if we want, but he's done. Of course he has a better football brain then the rest of them, that's a given, everyone knows that, but he has to contribute, not get a free pass because of previous exploits or just because he came through our system. He offers very little now, is on a tidy screw (Good luck to him) but he just isn't up to it anymore. There comes a time for all players.

What's with the increasing use of ellipsis on this board...

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Ramsey is finished, and we can polish it up if we want, but he's done. Of course he has a better football brain then the rest of them, that's a given, everyone knows that, but he has to contribute, not get a free pass because of previous exploits or just because he came through our system. He offers very little now, is on a tidy screw (Good luck to him) but he just isn't up to it anymore. There comes a time for all players.

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Yes, he’s done, but my point is that in the games that he’s featured is the lack of ability in the players around him has been to his detriment. The times he’s appeared has really emphasised how poor our squad is. Maybe if he’d have been surrounded by even just 4 or 5 players of decent Championship standard his contribution may have been more fruitful, unfortunately he’s been amongst a pile of shite.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Thing is, Ramsey can't play two games in a week, which has meant Riza has had to chop and change the line-up to accommodate him, and I reckon he's done so more because of who Aaron Ramsey is rather than what he has been bringing to the team, but I appreciate that's an opinion others wouldn't agree with.

Leaving aside the injury issues, I just don't think he's very effective at this level at the age of 34. A player of his age needs to be really fit to still make a mark in this division, and with the best will in the world Ramsey isn't and hasn't.

Anyway, it's just an opinion. We haven't achieved a single victory when Ramsey's played this season (apart from a cup game that was eventually won on penalties), so things are unlikely to get any worse now he's out. Whether they'll get any better is another matter.

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I don't think Riza needs much reason to chop and change a line up tbh. I still think Ramsey half fit is a better option than most of our midfielders but I feel like we've seen the end of his career now anyway which is a shame

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Originally Posted by splott parker

It doesn’t but the few times he’s played, he’s found space without over exerting himself, received the ball from a usually harassed team mate, but invariably has to hang on to it a touch too long due to the lack of intelligent movement by others. Over the last few games he’s made himself available, not by sprinting into space. He just finds room calmly while the others plod around seemingly sticking like glue to their opponents.

As I stated, his absence may be beneficial due to the ‘wavelength’ differences.

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It's funny because everything you say here applies for me to Colwill, not to turn this thread into another religious war. Obviously Rambo has earned the benefit of the doubt in his career as he's hit heights that Colwill hasn't and never will, but I do wonder why one gets destroyed for not single handedly changing games while often playing out of position under this manager, and the others inability to change a game get excused away as having crappy teammates.

I do agree with the original premise by the way. He's done, he's not a consistently impactful player even at this level (for whatever reason) and I hope he retires rather than try to play through injury another season. I'd love for him to find a place in the coaching staff under an experienced manager, as unlikely as that might be with the idiots we have running our team.

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Originally Posted by LA Bluebird

It's funny because everything you say here applies for me to Colwill, not to turn this thread into another religious war. Obviously Rambo has earned the benefit of the doubt in his career as he's hit heights that Colwill hasn't and never will, but I do wonder why one gets destroyed for not single handedly changing games while often playing out of position under this manager, and the others inability to change a game get excused away as having crappy teammates.

I do agree with the original premise by the way. He's done, he's not a consistently impactful player even at this level (for whatever reason) and I hope he retires rather than try to play through injury another season. I'd love for him to find a place in the coaching staff under an experienced manager, as unlikely as that might be with the idiots we have running our team.

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Colwill is a talent, yes, but whereas Ramsey hasn’t, I don’t recall, been one for the meandering dribbles, it’s a bit of a Colwill trademark. Perhaps he feels he has to do this and not play the killer ball due to the lack of awareness in his team mates. It’s a bit of a dilemma finding Colwill’s best position, it was a bit ridiculous playing him in the role that was asked of him against Luton. His lack of pace was cruelly exposed on times and his lack of aerial ability was found wanting again. When he, unfortunately, found himself in a defensive situation on that one occasion, he shied away, resulting in a Luton goal.

Colwill, whilst, one of our better players has no chance of matching Ramsey’s career but could shine a lot more in more accomplished company. I just wish we had a coach that could pinpoint a defining role and work on that.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Yes, he’s done, but my point is that in the games that he’s featured is the lack of ability in the players around him has been to his detriment. The times he’s appeared has really emphasised how poor our squad is. Maybe if he’d have been surrounded by even just 4 or 5 players of decent Championship standard his contribution may have been more fruitful, unfortunately he’s been amongst a pile of shite.

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Agreed, but i don't think that having better player around him would stop him getting injured, muscle tears specifically, which finish player off of a certain vintage because they can't recover from them, they're horrendous injuries to sustain after 30.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Agreed, but i don't think that having better player around him would stop him getting injured, muscle tears specifically, which finish player off of a certain vintage because they can't recover from them, they're horrendous injuries to sustain after 30.

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Yep as I said, he’s done, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Colwill is a talent, yes, but whereas Ramsey hasn’t, I don’t recall, been one for the meandering dribbles, it’s a bit of a Colwill trademark. Perhaps he feels he has to do this and not play the killer ball due to the lack of awareness in his team mates. It’s a bit of a dilemma finding Colwill’s best position, it was a bit ridiculous playing him in the role that was asked of him against Luton. His lack of pace was cruelly exposed on times and his lack of aerial ability was found wanting again. When he, unfortunately, found himself in a defensive situation on that one occasion, he shied away, resulting in a Luton goal.

Colwill, whilst, one of our better players has no chance of matching Ramsey’s career but could shine a lot more in more accomplished company. I just wish we had a coach that could pinpoint a defining role and work on that.

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We've had about 7, and none of them know what to do with him. I'm out of this one though :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

We've had about 7, and none of them know what to do with him. I'm out of this one though :thumbup:

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At least bellamy has made a definitive call with him for wales. Ie he's ignoring him and decided he's not for him. He has given absolutely everyone else a go but not colwill. Players definitely less talented than him are being used.

Fair play to bellamy though. You are right the city managers haven't known what to do with him but they've done colwill no favours by bringing him back all the time. Would have been Kinder to colwill to back him or move him on.

We can't ignore how bad our previous 7 managers have been though. All terrible appointments and none done anything since leaving us. Be fascinating to see what a real manager made of him. I suspect they wouldn't play him to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

We've had about 7, and none of them know what to do with him. I'm out of this one though :thumbup:

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Yep, it’s a dilemma that a few have tried to solve, also there’s the fact that although seemingly being admired by others as well, no other club has taken a punt on him.

Oh and I’m out of the Colwill debate as well, everybody is well intentioned and has their view but it just goes around in circles.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

We've had about 7, and none of them know what to do with him. I'm out of this one though :thumbup:

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because if you had your way Colwill would be CLEANING THE TOILETS you MONSTER

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

I’d say we played our best football this season with David Turnbull in our midfield and he’s going to be back soon apparently - it’ll be asking a lot for him to turn things around, but I’d say he’s been more influential for us than Ramsey in the few games they’ve both managed to play.

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yes agree regarding Turnbull

as this board appears to be obsessed with stats these days some one posted some interesting ones on X regarding first team squad

Points we've gained when a player starts a match and the average points we've gained when a player starts during 24/25. No cup ties included.

Top 3 players this season

Cian Ashford = 10 starts , 15 points , Average 1.50
Turnbull = 8 starts , 12 points , Average 1.50
Tanner - 14 starts , 19 poinys , Average 1.35

i won't put up the stats for Kanga :hehe:

After leaving us and a brief spell at Forest, has Rambo ever played for a non-top-quartile team that expects to win most of its games playing a possession-based game?

As the star signing and a local hero we have gone all out on the possession game, even though, even by championship standards, we don't have the talent for it. Its painful watching some of our players and manager trying it. Ramsey played well for Wales with far better players but it bottomed him.

You can see the class on the ball, but there are so many players we only judge by goals and assists and use it as a stick to beat hem. It's about wins, i don't believe the manager has a clue how to get them with or without Rambo.

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Originally Posted by llan bluebird

After leaving us and a brief spell at Forest, has Rambo ever played for a non-top-quartile team that expects to win most of its games playing a possession-based game?

As the star signing and a local hero we have gone all out on the possession game, even though, even by championship standards, we don't have the talent for it. Its painful watching some of our players and manager trying it. Ramsey played well for Wales with far better players but it bottomed him.

You can see the class on the ball, but there are so many players we only judge by goals and assists and use it as a stick to beat hem. It's about wins, i don't believe the manager has a clue how to get them with or without Rambo.

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at no point have we gone all out on the possession game

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Originally Posted by Rjk

at no point have we gone all out on the possession game

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I am sure Riza's football CV would include his personal statement: "I am a possession-based manager who believes the keeper is an outfield player. We play the ball through the thirds via our central halfs using combinations of single, double pivots, double boxes, and inverted wingers."

We are crap at it and so late its almost retro.

He is a youth coach where the goal isn't neccassirily wins but player development

Would help if Riza spoke in understandable English every now and again.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

Would help if Riza spoke in understandable English every now and again.

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They're all at it these days, coaching badges and they all think that they're guru's. He was right about Colwill, he wasn't and out and out wide player, a d I know this might sound controversial, but plenty of fans don't understand tactical play or formations, Including myself, but what fans can see is when things just aren't working, they might not be technical, but they can see when things are going down the shitter, players aren't looking right in certain formations etc. Riza says that he takes responsibility, no shit, of course he does, he has no choice but too, what he doesn't do, like so many others, is say where he got things wrong.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

Could Aaron Ramsey’s absence actually be a benefit for the rest of the season? I know that won’t be a popular idea with some, but I believe it might be.

Ramsey has started six Championship games this season and also made two lengthy sub appearances. The team’s record with him in it is appalling:

P 8, W 0, D 3, L5, GF 5, GA 16, Pts 3

Ramsey’s absence will give Omer Riza and his coaching staff fewer options in the centre of midfield and, as odd as this might sound, I reckon that may prove a plus-point. Riza seemingly can’t resist tinkering with the starting line-up on a regular basis and there’s no doubt in my mind that’s a significant part of the problem.

Ramsey has shown the occasional touch of class during his eight league appearances, but generally he’s looked well off the pace. He hasn’t had anything like the sort of positive influence everyone hoped he would and his habit of regularly conceding possession has been an accident waiting to happen. I reckon that, on balance, the team will probably be better off without him.

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Seemed like a good idea, but him playing has been a disaster. It doesn’t seem like he’s even able to influence and inspire the team when not playing…maybe a decent under 18 or 21 coach but I’d say that’s in the balance but that’s the only role I’d say he should try now.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

They're all at it these days, coaching badges and they all think that they're guru's. He was right about Colwill, he wasn't and out and out wide player, a d I know this might sound controversial, but plenty of fans don't understand tactical play or formations, Including myself, but what fans can see is when things just aren't working, they might not be technical, but they can see when things are going down the shitter, players aren't looking right in certain formations etc. Riza says that he takes responsibility, no shit, of course he does, he has no choice but too, what he doesn't do, like so many others, is say where he got things wrong.

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It’s all a bit smoke & mirrors though when they wriggle out of things with the ‘clever technical jargon, that, of course, you fans won’t understand’ shite.

You’re a spread and no doubt you’ve come across poorly built ‘tower of Pisa’ walls. The customer doesn’t really want to know the intricacies of dubbing out, thinner & thicker scratch coats, Unibonding for adhesion, building up each coat gradually to eventually get a flat, plumb finish etc. Explaining all that to him would seem as though you’re panning it out to get more credit and impress him with the fluent bollocks that you’re aware of but he has no clue. All he wants is the final bit of my earlier description, a flat, plumb finish.

We fans, or the ones I knock around with, glaze over when losing coaches/managers spout what is really an admission of failure of their scientific shite. They can keep their ‘in’ talk to the tradesmen (the players), we the fans (or customers as I keep getting told) want a nice, flat, plumb finish, ie defending from our defenders, goals from anywhere and a few wins with honest effort and no ‘I’m cleverer than you’ bollocks from the bloke in charge because he’s digging a bigger hole and making an utter c*nt of himself.

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Originally Posted by splott parker

It’s all a bit smoke & mirrors though when they wriggle out of things with the ‘clever technical jargon, that, of course, you fans won’t understand’ shite.

You’re a spread and no doubt you’ve come across poorly built ‘tower of Pisa’ walls. The customer doesn’t really want to know the intricacies of dubbing out, thinner & thicker scratch coats, Unibonding for adhesion, building up each coat gradually to eventually get a flat, plumb finish etc. Explaining all that to him would seem as though you’re panning it out to get more credit and impress him with the fluent bollocks that you’re aware of but he has no clue. All he wants is the final bit of my earlier description, a flat, plumb finish.

We fans, or the ones I knock around with, glaze over when losing coaches/managers spout what is really an admission of failure of their scientific shite. They can keep their ‘in’ talk to the tradesmen (the players), we the fans (or customers as I keep getting told) want a nice, flat, plumb finish, ie defending from our defenders, goals from anywhere and a few wins with honest effort and no ‘I’m cleverer than you’ bollocks from the bloke in charge because he’s digging a bigger hole and making an utter c*nt of himself.

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Agreed!

I'm not interested in false 9s (or is it a 10?), box formations etc.

Give me a plumb-finish at the final whistle and we'll all be happy! :thumbup:

As expected, the Luton debacle has turned out to be Ramsey’s final game of the season. It’ll be a sad way for him to have ended his Cardiff City playing career, but I hope it was his last game for us. Offering him a new contract for next season would be farcical under the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by The Lone Gunman

As expected, the Luton debacle has turned out to be Ramsey’s final game of the season. It’ll be a sad way for him to have ended his Cardiff City playing career, but I hope it was his last game for us. Offering him a new contract for next season would be farcical under the circumstances.

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It is sad way to end his time with us. In some respects the word “career” seems to be a bit of an exaggeration although literally correct. He only managed 40 or so games for us in his 3 spells. He was a marvellous player for both Arsenal and Wales and, much as we might love him to bits, you might argue his major contribution to CCFC was earning us £4m+ in a transfer fee in 2008 when we desperately needed it. Sadly, his final spell with us was a costly gamble that did not pay off. You would like to think that there was a coaching opportunity with us at the normal going rate within the Club Establishment but a playing contract is, in my view, out of the question

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Originally Posted by Enoch Mort

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It is sad way to end his time with us. In some respects the word “career” seems to be a bit of an exaggeration although literally correct. He only managed 40 or so games for us in his 3 spells. He was a marvellous player for both Arsenal and Wales and, much as we might love him to bits, you might argue his major contribution to CCFC was earning us £4m+ in a transfer fee in 2008 when we desperately needed it. Sadly, his final spell with us was a costly gamble that did not pay off. You would like to think that there was a coaching opportunity with us at the normal going rate within the Club Establishment but a playing contract is, in my view, out of the question

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Thats's a fair and objective summary. A fantastic player for Arsenal and Wales but hardly a City legend in playing terms.

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Originally Posted by D. Advocaat

Thats's a fair and objective summary. A fantastic player for Arsenal and Wales but hardly a City legend in playing terms.

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no, but he's a local lad who made it to the top - of course the fans will think fondly of him.

He's done more for us than Jude Bellingham did for Birmingham and they've retired his shirt number

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Originally Posted by D. Advocaat

Thats's a fair and objective summary. A fantastic player for Arsenal and Wales but hardly a City legend in playing terms.

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Didn’t fancy managing him then?