Trump Announces First Stage Of Israel Gaza Peace Deal 9th October 2025

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Originally Posted by delmbox

This is a bizarre post, I'm not sure if you're being incredibly naive or deliberately obtuse.



^ by your own admission, the list of reasons in his answer as to why people are still protesting haven't been achieved yet but at the same time you can't understand why people are still protesting?

I'm incredibly thankful that there's currently a ceasefire of sorts, and although I think Trump is a sociopathic wannabe dictator I think his unique style of diplomacy is a big part why it's happened so although I wish he'd pushed 9 months ago to stop a genocide rather than fund it, I give him credit for that. But your posts take a wildly simplistic view of the situation, all the issues that existed before Oct 7th haven't been fixed by what's happened since, the last two years haven't been a blip in an otherwise stable region.

The fight for Palestinian freedom has been going on for a long long time, you might not care and that's your business, but I don't understand the sneering at someone like Jon1959 who cares about something bigger than his own 4 walls and puts his money where his mouth is by protesting etc.

And I'm sorry but your last sentence is utterly ridiculous. Maybe you only care about you and your own, or maybe you care about bigger issues but not enough to try and do your small bit to help them - that's your right and you're not alone in that (in fact you're probably in a big majority). But not everybody is built that way, and aiming potshots from the sidelines at people who give a shit about causes unrelated to them isn't something to be proud of.

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I’m guessing you’re what, in your 50’s? Maybe 60’s? Have you genuinely never in your decades alive never felt strongly enough about something that you’ve felt the need to make your feelings heard about it in a public protest?

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

Standing at protests and going on marches holding up banners is like pissing into the wind.

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That is a very popular point of view from armchair commentators. I disagree - although I don't do as much as I should.

In my opinion the Gaza protests in the UK, USA, across Europe, the Global South and many other countries like Canada and Australia, have moved the international dial from unquestioning support for a genocide to qualified opposition or criticism. They have put enormous pressure on some influential politicians - in the UK the Tories probably didn't care or pay attention (they were on an electoral death spiral whatever Sunak, Jenrick or Braverman said as Israeli cheerleaders).

But Starmer, Lammy, Cooper and friends have seen support leaking away because of their stance on Israel-Palestine and that eventually forced some changes. True it didn't stop the government supplying arms and fly-over intelligence, trade or diplomatic cover - but it forced a change on aid and recognition. The national and local protests and demonstrations have crystallised the opposition to Starmer. He will pay a big electoral price.

The demonstrations have also provided a time and space for people to get together and share experiences and ideas. They have provided a platform for evryone from Jewish anti Zionists to surgeons returning from Gaza hospitals to speak to very big crowds and get their message out.

Most important they have shown people living through the genocide that they are not alone - and whenever they are able (when communications aren't jammed) many say how important it is to know that the world has not turned its back on their starvation, displacement, arbitrary arrest, lack of power, clean water and medicines, and their mass murder by an occupying army. That matters.

If you think it is just pissing in the wind, that is your choice. But not mine!

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Originally Posted by jon1959

That is a very popular point of view from armchair commentators. I disagree - although I don't do as much as I should.

In my opinion the Gaza protests in the UK, USA, across Europe, the Global South and many other countries like Canada and Australia, have moved the international dial from unquestioning support for a genocide to qualified opposition or criticism. They have put enormous pressure on some influential politicians - in the UK the Tories probably didn't care or pay attention (they were on an electoral death spiral whatever Sunak, Jenrick or Braverman said as Israeli cheerleaders).

But Starmer, Lammy, Cooper and friends have seen support leaking away because of their stance on Israel-Palestine and that eventually forced some changes. True it didn't stop the government supplying arms and fly-over intelligence, trade or diplomatic cover - but it forced a change on aid and recognition. The national and local protests and demonstrations have crystallised the opposition to Starmer. He will pay a big electoral price.

The demonstrations have also provided a time and space for people to get together and share experiences and ideas. They have provided a platform for evryone from Jewish anti Zionists to surgeons returning from Gaza hospitals to speak to very big crowds and get their message out.

Most important they have shown people living through the genocide that they are not alone - and whenever they are able (when communications aren't jammed) many say how important it is to know that the world has not turned its back on their starvation, displacement, arbitrary arrest, lack of power, clean water and medicines, and their mass murder by an occupying army. That matters.

If you think it is just pissing in the wind, that is your choice. But not mine!

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Put why we march a thousand times better than I could, I think I’ll go back to letting you do the arguing :hehe:

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Originally Posted by jon1959

That is a very popular point of view from armchair commentators. I disagree - although I don't do as much as I should.

In my opinion the Gaza protests in the UK, USA, across Europe, the Global South and many other countries like Canada and Australia, have moved the international dial from unquestioning support for a genocide to qualified opposition or criticism. They have put enormous pressure on some influential politicians - in the UK the Tories probably didn't care or pay attention (they were on an electoral death spiral whatever Sunak, Jenrick or Braverman said as Israeli cheerleaders).

But Starmer, Lammy, Cooper and friends have seen support leaking away because of their stance on Israel-Palestine and that eventually forced some changes. True it didn't stop the government supplying arms and fly-over intelligence, trade or diplomatic cover - but it forced a change on aid and recognition. The national and local protests and demonstrations have crystallised the opposition to Starmer. He will pay a big electoral price.

The demonstrations have also provided a time and space for people to get together and share experiences and ideas. They have provided a platform for evryone from Jewish anti Zionists to surgeons returning from Gaza hospitals to speak to very big crowds and get their message out.

Most important they have shown people living through the genocide that they are not alone - and whenever they are able (when communications aren't jammed) many say how important it is to know that the world has not turned its back on their starvation, displacement, arbitrary arrest, lack of power, clean water and medicines, and their mass murder by an occupying army. That matters.

If you think it is just pissing in the wind, that is your choice. But not mine!

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“Unquestioning support for a genocide” Absolute nonsense, that you seem quite willing to spout.
When Hamas carried out their attack 2 yrs ago, Israel could have wiped out Palestinians in one fell swoop. They didn’t. They did inevitably retaliate though. Were you out marching protesting about the Hamas attack then?
You also attempted to say Israel are still attacking the Palestinians today!!!
Again, absolute nonsense.
There is a Pro Palestinian March in London today, where arrests are being made after trouble between protesters and anti protesters.
The day after a cease fire. You couldn’t make it up.

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Put why we march a thousand times better than I could, I think I’ll go back to letting you do the arguing :hehe:

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You seem easily impressed with word salad.

Whilst the CCMB massive continue to throw the toys out at the wrong person doing something to stop the Genocide,
Maria Corina Machado offers the adult version of events. It's OK boys you'll get your moment of I told you so, i doubt very much
that the ceasefire will last, carry on with the marching :thumbup:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-media-max-width="560"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">🚨 BREAKING: Nobel Peace Prize winner Maria Corina Machado says President Trump DESERVES IT. Liberals are about to fume.<br><br>&quot;I decided to dedicate it to President Trump because he deserves it! Because not only has he been involved in only a few months in solving 8 wars, but his… <a href="https://t.co/GEKZ6bsxpc">pic.twitter.com/GEKZ6bsxpc</a></p>&mdash; Eric Daugherty (@EricLDaugh) <a href="https://twitter.com/EricLDaugh/status/1977016922131619944?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

“Unquestioning support for a genocide” Absolute nonsense, that you seem quite willing to spout.
When Hamas carried out their attack 2 yrs ago, Israel could have wiped out Palestinians in one fell swoop. They didn’t. They did inevitably retaliate though. Were you out marching protesting about the Hamas attack then?
You also attempted to say Israel are still attacking the Palestinians today!!!
Again, absolute nonsense.
There is a Pro Palestinian March in London today, where arrests are being made after trouble between protesters and anti protesters.
The day after a cease fire. You couldn’t make it up.

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But you did.

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

You seem easily impressed with word salad.

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Quite.

You never replied to this

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Originally Posted by delmbox

I’m guessing you’re what, in your 50’s? Maybe 60’s? Have you genuinely never in your decades alive never felt strongly enough about something that you’ve felt the need to make your feelings heard about it in a public protest?

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genuinely curious

A review of some of the 'pissing in the wind':

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...and-resistance

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

It’s you who’s being naive. These protests in the UK do fu*k all to change things. If protests and march’s achieved anything other than giving the protesters an achievement of self gratification there wouldn’t be any wars or atrocities. It’s heads of states who start wars and stop wars, not protestors.
If Jon 1959 and others want to help the cause, take sabbaticals and go help the Palestinians by volunteering to help get them back on their feet.
Standing at protests and going on marches holding up banners is like pissing into the wind.

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I'm amazed these marches affect you so strongly. If you don't like them you can steer clear. I thought you might instead be impressed by the humanity of the support for needless death and suffering. I am, it's so refreshing and heartwarming.

By the way if there were clashes on the march today what on Earth were anti protesters (what the Hell are they supposed to be?) turning up? Clearly only with a mind to invite trouble which it seems they managed to achieve.

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

I'm amazed these marches affect you so strongly. If you don't like them you can steer clear. I thought you might instead be impressed by the humanity of the support for needless death and suffering. I am, it's so refreshing and heartwarming.

By the way if there were clashes on the march today what on Earth were anti protesters (what the Hell are they supposed to be?) turning up? Clearly only with a mind to invite trouble which it seems they managed to achieve.

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Why is there always a few feckwits waving welsh flags at these patriotic rallies ?

Embarrassing

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Originally Posted by William Treseder

It’s you who’s being naive. These protests in the UK do fu*k all to change things. If protests and march’s achieved anything other than giving the protesters an achievement of self gratification there wouldn’t be any wars or atrocities. It’s heads of states who start wars and stop wars, not protestors.
If Jon 1959 and others want to help the cause, take sabbaticals and go help the Palestinians by volunteering to help get them back on their feet.
Standing at protests and going on marches holding up banners is like pissing into the wind.

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I missed this line before. FWIW I have been financially supporting Friends of Hebron (in the West Bank) for years along with a few other smaller Palestinian civil society organisations. If you are interested in learning more or giving your own support, there is a link below:

https://www.hebronfriends.org

As to taking a sabbatical and going to Palestine to volunteer, I doubt a British pensioner with my skillset is what is needed. 'Getting back on their feet' will be helped more by getting the aid in, reconstruction (especially the hospitals and essential infrastructure for power and clean water) and stopping the mass murder of civilians. We can all influence that from here in the UK - if we want to!

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

I'm amazed these marches affect you so strongly. If you don't like them you can steer clear. I thought you might instead be impressed by the humanity of the support for needless death and suffering. I am, it's so refreshing and heartwarming.

By the way if there were clashes on the march today what on Earth were anti protesters (what the Hell are they supposed to be?) turning up? Clearly only with a mind to invite trouble which it seems they managed to achieve.

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The 'counter demonstrators' have been at every Palestine demonstration since November 2023. They are small in number (between 30 and 150 people when the demonstrations have been 120,000 - 800,000) and up to now always static. On one a year ago there were two small counter demonstrations, but it is usually one.

They have a very loud sound system to play IDF Pop music (it really is a thing!), wave Israeli, English, British and sometimes Indian (Hindu Nationalists from Modi's party are big Israel fans) flags, hold placards that deny war crimes or starvation - and accuse the marchers of being Hamas, and that is usually it.

They are normally screened by a line of police and a thicker line of stewards from the march organising committee - intended to stop any direct confrontation. I have never heard of any incidents or arrests around these counter protests in the past 2 years.

This time a number of these 'counter demonstrators ' seem to have deliberately joined the march with their own chants and placards. The police said they had breached the conditions of their protest and made arrests!

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Originally Posted by jon1959

The 'counter demonstrators' have been at every Palestine demonstration since November 2023. They are small in number (between 30 and 150 people when the demonstrations have been 120,000 - 800,000) and up to now always static. On one a year ago there were two small counter demonstrations, but it is usually one.

They have a very loud sound system to play IDF Pop music (it really is a thing!), wave Israeli, English, British and sometimes Indian (Hindu Nationalists from Modi's party are big Israel fans) flags, hold placards that deny war crimes or starvation - and accuse the marchers of being Hamas, and that is usually it.

They are normally screened by a line of police and a thicker line of stewards from the march organising committee - intended to stop any direct confrontation. I have never heard of any incidents or arrests around these counter protests in the past 2 years.

This time a number of these 'counter demonstrators ' seem to have deliberately joined the march with their own chants and placards. The police said they had breached the conditions of their protest and made arrests!

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Good: I hope they get their just desserts

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Why is there always a few feckwits waving welsh flags at these patriotic rallies ?

Embarrassing

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You know the Welsh, anything for a party.

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Originally Posted by delmbox

Quite.

You never replied to this



genuinely curious

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Spent 2 weeks on a picket line in a previous job yrs ago. Union leaders still got paid, while we listened to what we thought was a union fighting our corner. Turned out they more or less sold us down the river. Cosmic !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by delmbox

This is a bizarre post, I'm not sure if you're being incredibly naive or deliberately obtuse.



^ by your own admission, the list of reasons in his answer as to why people are still protesting haven't been achieved yet but at the same time you can't understand why people are still protesting?

I'm incredibly thankful that there's currently a ceasefire of sorts, and although I think Trump is a sociopathic wannabe dictator I think his unique style of diplomacy is a big part why it's happened so although I wish he'd pushed 9 months ago to stop a genocide rather than fund it, I give him credit for that. But your posts take a wildly simplistic view of the situation, all the issues that existed before Oct 7th haven't been fixed by what's happened since, the last two years haven't been a blip in an otherwise stable region.

The fight for Palestinian freedom has been going on for a long long time, you might not care and that's your business, but I don't understand the sneering at someone like Jon1959 who cares about something bigger than his own 4 walls and puts his money where his mouth is by protesting etc.

And I'm sorry but your last sentence is utterly ridiculous. Maybe you only care about you and your own, or maybe you care about bigger issues but not enough to try and do your small bit to help them - that's your right and you're not alone in that (in fact you're probably in a big majority). But not everybody is built that way, and aiming potshots from the sidelines at people who give a shit about causes unrelated to them isn't something to be proud of.

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Well said

Attachment 6717

I'm with Titania on this!

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Originally Posted by stevo

Well said

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Ahh, he’s back. You never answered my question about Trump.