Are you suggesting that leave voters paid no attention to what the leave campaigns were proposing and promising?Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
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Are you suggesting that leave voters paid no attention to what the leave campaigns were proposing and promising?Quote:
Originally Posted by trampie09
All he says is that there won't be another referendum, but that's not really his call after he left office. There's nothing about the options of how to leave, nothing about the issues that would transpire in the event of leaving. It sounds as if all that was a tactic before his negotiations with the EU so he could get what he wanted. That worked out well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
How can anyone watch that Cameron video and think that means leave with no deal?
At this point ignoring all the evidence that’s been posted and you say no deal was the intention all along you’re either stupid or lying. There is no other explanation.
No deal will be terrible for this country. Anyone who wants it either doesn’t realise how bad it will be or doesn’t care that more of the country will be driven into poverty.
Do people not see the effect austerity is having? Do they not mind if it gets worse?
Boris Johnson: UK will 'still have access to single market’ despite Brexit - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7104846.html
The UK would still be able to trade freely within Europe even if it left the EU, Michael Gove has said. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36074853
David Davis view on leaving single market ‘not government policy’ - https://www.ft.com/content/54edbc7c-...a-de4532d5ea35
The UK's trade with the European Union will be "at least as free" after Brexit as it is now, Liam Fox says. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37504966
The biggest “brexiteers” before the vote were saying this ffs.
You need to do a bit better research before posting crap like this. There are actually currently about 12000 EU regulations affecting UK law. You are just an attention seeker.Quote:
Originally Posted by JennyWren
A major Leave politician Daniel Hannan said that if we left the EU our position in the Single Market would not be threatened. What do Cameron and Hannan have in common? They are Tories. Tory politicians lie for a living.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
According to this, from 1996 to 2014 4,514 laws have been implemented with EU influence. 72 were voted down by British representatives but we had to have them anyway because of our EU membership. Looking down the list they all seem quite reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
https://twitter.com/mac_puck/status/1087360379691380736
Where do you get your research from? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...endum-36473105Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
He said he was conducting the final negotiation, and there would be no more negotiation after that. He couldn't have been any clearer, leave means leave without any further negotiation.Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Loved that👍Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
So, in order to counter my argument, you quote twitter (god help us all) using figures that are five years out if date !! Very clever. My figures are taken from a bbc news online article from October 2018, so rather more reliable and up to date than yours if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
BBC online news article from October 2018. In any event, if you read my post correctly (and the bbc article you quoted as well !!) you will note that I was referring to 12000 EU regulations, the vast majority of which apply to the UK without needing to be implemented in law. This is a much better indicator of how the EU meddles in and controls our affairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Perhaps you should read posts correctly and do better research before you back other peoples inaccurate information.Quote:
Originally Posted by splott parker
Whereas Labour politicians are a bunch of rich, public school educated, communist and terrorist supporting hypocrites. Oh and I forgot, anti-semitic too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearcey3
I’ve read quite a bit about Brexit and I think us leaving is a life and country changing idiotic decision. And I did love that twitter read, it was very witty and well thought out. Sorry to offend you👍Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
Nah. Only if you read the hard right rags like The Express, Mail and Torygraph,Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
So, what you're saying is that what he is telling us nearly a year before the Referendum is that once a Leave win had been announced, there would be negotiation with the EU whatsoever - right, I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wales-Bales
Twitter can be awful but plenty of good people doing in-depth research on there. My apologies if I missed your link to the BBC article but you called JennyWren's assertion that less than 100 laws have been forced on us by the EU as 'crap' so I offered the link to suggest this was not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
Dennis Skinner doesn't call him dodgy Dave for nothing, but the relevent bit is when he said he was currently negotiating the final deal!Quote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
Apologies if I misunderstood the thrust of your reply. I thought you were merely trying to disagree with my figures. If there were only 100 EU laws that affected the UK, it would certainly make me wonder what the hell they had been doing for the last forty odd years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebirdman Of Alcathays
What laws have the EU forced on us that people don’t agree with then?
So the EU has lots of regulations? That's hardly a surprise. I would argue that these are not examples of meddling in UK affairs, more that they are the framework for EU membership, for frictionless trade deals and so on. Most clubs have rules and regulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
It's very much different from supposedly inflicting new laws on the UK.
Do people not realise the UK is in the room when these terrible laws are being discussed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
It’s now page 27 of this thread, which seems to have been going on longer than the Brexit negotiations itself. The leavers and the remainers are still hard at it, with little progress being made. Both sides entrenched with their views and beliefs. Can you not just call it a draw Mike. 🤔
It’s been an interesting thread hasn’t it? No one’s forcing anyone to read it.
It’s not been that interesting. I’ve not learnt anything I didn’t already know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Croesy Blue
And that goes out to everyone. Why not tell us if you haven't enjoyed reading a long thread? We'd all love to hear about it.
Why don’t you enlighten us with some of your knowledge then rather than moaning?Quote:
Originally Posted by William Treseder
The 12000 are regulations and laws imposed upon the UK with us having little or no say in it, so yes they are examples of how the EU interferes in our affairs adversely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Name three examples out of those 12,000 where we had little or no say and they adversely affected us.Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
Which ones did we have little or no say in? We are an equal member and had equal input.Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
Because this appears to be the latest fact on that
That’s ignoring the fact that the voting stage isn’t the only input we get. The U.K. also negotiates all laws with the other 27 countries before they’re put to vote.Quote:
The British government has voted against EU laws 2% of the time since 1999
Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999.
In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.
And ignoring the fact that our MEPs have voted differently to our MPs. Which part of this is undemocratic? Which part is a disadvantage to us?
Why do you think those regulations are interfering adversely?Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
Those are making sure we have less harmful.chemicals in products, food that is a better standard of quality, medical devices, pharmaceuticals etc etc. Which area of life would you be happy to accept a lower standard in than the rest of Europe?
Do you know the difference between regulations and laws ? Regulations are imposed upon us and we have to comply whether we like it or not. They are decided by back room committees and unknown bureaucrats and we have to comply, as we are part of the 'club', whether we like it or not. We have absolutely no vote or say on these before they are imposed. There are thousands of them. Silly examples include :- They introduced a rule to dictate what size and shape bananas we should eat, also banned the use of high powered hair dryers, vacuums and toasters, banned people from eating their own pet horses but eating other types of horse is perfectly fine, banned traditional British light bulbs, tried to ban the Cornish Pasty etc etc etc. All sound silly but costing UK taxpayers and companies millions of pounds to implement and examples of how they have nothing better to do than interfere in our daily life. Ask British fishermen what they think of EU fishing regulations. Ask British farmers what they think of EU farming directives.Quote:
Originally Posted by lardy
I'm looking forward to going back to buying a pint of beer instead of half a litre, having a speed limit in mph instead of km, and spending £ again instead of the bloody Euro.
Oh hang on a minute- we can opt out anyway.
Referendums are not legally binding, so legally the Government can ignore the results; for example, even if the result of a pre-legislative referendum were a majority of "No" for a proposed law, Parliament could pass it anyway, because parliament is sovereign.
Nothing new at all? How about some ideas to resolve things? I offer three:Quote:
Originally Posted by William Treseder
1. Parliament has a secret ballot to determine what MPs really want without worrying about how they need to posture.
2. Partition the UK into a leave area and a remain area. Leavers are barred from visiting the remain area (part of the new EU) forever and no trade takes place between leave land and the EU but leave can reap the benefits of their free trade agreements with ROTW.
3. Give everyone who wants to remain an EU passport before some agreed date and allow them the rights of EU citizenry they currently have. Leavers can self identify and continue to enjoy their subject status.
If we make our own laws and regulations, why cant we have better standards than the rest of Europe ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjk
Thing is, even if they were imposed in the manner you suggest (btw they weren't), they also seem eminently reasonable to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
I have friends who are farmers, all of whom are ardent remainers. They know that if we leave without a deal, the UK can be swamped with cheaper meat from around the world, where animal welfare is less stringent than here. They all fear for their businesses if we have a no-deal Brexit. Sound good to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954
Who says we can't do that currently?Quote:
Originally Posted by dml1954