40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I'm not sure what it says about us or public debate generally, but 38 page thread, perhaps 1000 posts and nothing since the pause in fighting which is what we all wanted isn't it?

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If the Sky News report this afternoon is right the fighting in north Gaza hasn't stopped. The IDF and Hamas are still shooting at each other. The IDF are also shooting at Palestinian civilians who were trying to get back to their ruined homes to salvage some possessions. The bombing and shelling of southern Gaza by the IDF and the rocket attacks by Hamas seem to have stopped for the 'pause' and maybe the other fighting will scale right back too over the coming days.

It is some relief, some good news - and maybe a window for further de-escalation if the USA wants to push that and Netanyahu wants to listen. Maybe half the hostages will go home. Maybe a few hundred Palestinian political prisoners and hostages (AKA Palestinians in administrative detention without trial - some of them children!) will also go home. All good.

But as things stand it will all start again on Monday - and more bodies (mostly civilians) will pile up. Hopefully diplomatic and popular pressure (especially in Israel) will change that direction of travel. Get yourselves to Park Lane in London, tomorrow at 12.30. Bring banners and megaphones! Every little helps.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I'm not sure what it says about us or public debate generally, but 38 page thread, perhaps 1000 posts and nothing since the pause in fighting which is what we all wanted isn't it?

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What I want is for the rest of the western world to call out Israel for their atrocities in the same way they do for Hamas.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

No Bones

No Video of him doing magic tricks

Lack of evidence is evidence

I mean I am all for giving someone the benefit of doubt but he and his followers are trying desperately to get everyone to believe

So surely they would have left evidence that's he's here or has recently been here

If he's omnipotent and omnipresent he's had 2000 plus years to prove his existence to us but he's left nothing

Except you lot telling us he exists

I am afraid that doesn't stand up in court

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Jesus is the evidence but as you won't even make the time or effort to investigate for yourself that's your problem not mine!

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Jesus is the evidence but as you won't even make the time or effort to investigate for yourself that's your problem not mine!

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:hehe::hehe::hehe:

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Jesus is the evidence but as you won't even make the time or effort to investigate for yourself that's your problem not mine!

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I am in all weekend , tell him to pop round for a coffee

I want to meet him in person

A Bible is not evidence

The Israeli Government are appalling

Several representatives , including both civilian and army have been interviewed on the rolling news today

It's no good them trying to come over as the good guys when straight away they start casting blame on hamas instead of celebrating the return of innocent people

No wonder there have been marches by decent liberal Jewish people , including families of the hostages to get Israel to negotiate and step back from attacking gaza

I can't see there being a long ceasefire ......which is what clearly is putting pressure on Israel.....with these trigger happy nutcases running the country

The shocking murder of those settlers and others was dreadful but how many times do they have to say that their trauma was worse than the bombing of kids in Palestine ?

It's quite pathetic to see all this play out

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

The Israeli Government are appalling

Several representatives , including both civilian and army have been interviewed on the rolling news today

It's no good them trying to come over as the good guys when straight away they start casting blame on hamas instead of celebrating the return of innocent people

No wonder there have been marches by decent liberal Jewish people , including families of the hostages to get Israel to negotiate and step back from attacking gaza

I can't see there being a long ceasefire ......which is what clearly is putting pressure on Israel.....with these trigger happy nutcases running the country

The shocking murder of those settlers and others was dreadful but how many times do they have to say that their trauma was worse than the bombing of kids in Palestine ?

It's quite pathetic to see all this play out

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Can't you just be happy for a day that the bombing has stopped and the hostages, including four little girls are home safe?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I am in all weekend , tell him to pop round for a coffee

I want to meet him in person

A Bible is not evidence

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Oh, you'll meet him in person alright one day. If I get there before you, I'll try and put in a word for you. :wink:

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Can't you just be happy for a day that the bombing has stopped and the hostages, including four little girls are home safe?

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I brought to the attention of this thread the cease fire 24 hours before you did so I am aware of the situation

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Oh, you'll meet him in person alright one day. If I get there before you, I'll try and put in a word for you. :wink:

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I have a speech prepared but if there is a chance you could soften him up before I arrive that would be great

Good to see.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...sm-say-leaders

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I have a speech prepared but if there is a chance you could soften him up before I arrive that would be great

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I would love to hear your 'way' and how it will compare to or trump His Way!
Especially as there is no other way :sherlock:

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Originally Posted by stevo

I left my faith because there was only evidence to support that God didn’t exist (I’ve already given details on that). I wasn’t looking for evidence to support my faith - after all that’s what it’s all about isn’t it? Faith is just exactly that.

So, you have issues with RCs and Christadelphians, but you haven’t told us what denomination you belong to.

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I am part of a free-evangelical Church, so it's God's Word plus nothing.
And from all you have said you didn't ever grasp the key message of the Bible so couldn't stand up for your faith or answer any key questions that friends and family occasionally ask. For example the RCC doesn't teach or encourage their members to know their Bible so in fairness it's a bit like handing your average American a City shirt and expecting him to give an after dinner speech on the club that night.
So if you have any questions at all, now or in the future (with or without insults) then the door remains open.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

No Bones

No Video of him doing magic tricks

Lack of evidence is evidence

I mean I am all for giving someone the benefit of doubt but he and his followers are trying desperately to get everyone to believe

So surely they would have left evidence that's he's here or has recently been here

If he's omnipotent and omnipresent he's had 2000 plus years to prove his existence to us but he's left nothing

Except you lot telling us he exists

I am afraid that doesn't stand up in court

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Have you even thought this through?
You are asking for bones when the historical evidence acknowledges (outside the Bible) a bodily resurrection!?
So your own counter argument doesn't stand up at all?

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Have you even thought this through?
You are asking for bones when the historical evidence acknowledges (outside the Bible) a bodily resurrection!?
So your own counter argument doesn't stand up at all?

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The only historical evidence is from words in books and Chinese whispers

I can tell you that 20 years ago me and a few mates went to a Black Sabbath concert and Steve and Dave both said they saw the devil and told some of our other mates when we got home

And some of our mates BELIEVED them

And told other friends

It's not evidence though is it , they were both stoned

Since the birth and death of your Jesus he and God have had 2000 years to prove to us that they exist

If they were all powerful then they have failed dismally to do that

If all you lot can say is believe then its clearly nonsense

Prove that God is special

You lot say you talk to him and he's magic

So tell him to send me a sign or a shoe he wears or some of his beard that can be carbon dated

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

I would love to hear your 'way' and how it will compare to or trump His Way!
Especially as there is no other way :sherlock:

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I don't have a way , I think God is nonsense


and I want evidence he exists not oh you have to worship him and take him into your life first !

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

I am part of a free-evangelical Church, so it's God's Word plus nothing.
And from all you have said you didn't ever grasp the key message of the Bible so couldn't stand up for your faith or answer any key questions that friends and family occasionally ask. For example the RCC doesn't teach or encourage their members to know their Bible so in fairness it's a bit like handing your average American a City shirt and expecting him to give an after dinner speech on the club that night.
So if you have any questions at all, now or in the future (with or without insults) then the door remains open.

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So are you going to heaven because you belong to your church ?

And my mother , a roman Catholic who died last year , isn't?

Or non believers, Muslims and aborigines

None of you are

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

So are you going to heaven because you belong to your church ?

And my mother , a roman Catholic who died last year , isn't?

Or non believers, Muslims and aborigines

None of you are

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1. Belonging to a Church building/ group saves nobody, you can't put a pig in a stable and produce a horse.
2. Roman Catholics do accept Christ as Almighty God which is a key requirement, and they CAN be born-again Christians, however as in all cases, they would need to repent and personally trust in Christ believing that His Sacrifice at Calvary was completely sufficient to pay the penalty of their sin; also that there's nothing they can do to earn their own salvation via good works.
3. Muslims reject Christ as being 'The Way' and neither do they accept Him as Lord and God. God in the Bible is declared as being the great "I AM", and Jesus states at the end of John chapter 8, "Before Abraham was, I AM".
Jesus also said in that same chapter, "Unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins".
Muslims do NOT believe that Christ is the I AM, so on that basis and because of Christ's words, they will all die in their sins unless they discover the real Jesus, not the fake Jesus they have been sold.

39 pages of (mainly) drivel and rhetoric from our elite team of international negotiators and you still haven't come up with a solution.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

1. Belonging to a Church building/ group saves nobody, you can't put a pig in a stable and produce a horse.
2. Roman Catholics do accept Christ as Almighty God which is a key requirement, and they CAN be born-again Christians, however as in all cases, they would need to repent and personally trust in Christ believing that His Sacrifice at Calvary was completely sufficient to pay the penalty of their sin; also that there's nothing they can do to earn their own salvation via good works.
3. Muslims reject Christ as being 'The Way' and neither do they accept Him as Lord and God. God in the Bible is declared as being the great "I AM", and Jesus states at the end of John chapter 8, "Before Abraham was, I AM".
Jesus also said in that same chapter, "Unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins".
Muslims do NOT believe that Christ is the I AM, so on that basis and because of Christ's words, they will all die in their sins unless they discover the real Jesus, not the fake Jesus they have been sold.

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So you are saying the huge worldwide Muslim faith are wrong and not going to paradise

And you and maybe the catholics if they sign a few things are on the bus ?

A fantasy outcome based on a 2000 year old book

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Originally Posted by pipster

39 pages of (mainly) drivel and rhetoric from our elite team of international negotiators and you still haven't come up with a solution.

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Well there isn't a solution really is there ?

Hopefully the carnage , terrorism and murder from both sides can be reduced to manageable levels but its always going to be hanging around and will flare up

I think anyone who thinks otherwise is having a laugh

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Well there isn't a solution really is there ?

Hopefully the carnage , terrorism and murder from both sides can be reduced to manageable levels but its always going to be hanging around and will flare up

I think anyone who thinks otherwise is having a laugh

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The sons of Abraham will *forever be at war, yet only one of those brothers has made it their ambition to eradicate the entire offspring of the other 'brother'.

* In this case your thoughts line up with the Bible, which also adds that it will only finally be resolved by the Man who often is named by you and all your fellow skeptics in anger when things go wrong.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

The sons of Abraham will *forever be at war, yet only one of those brothers has made it their ambition to eradicate the entire offspring of the other 'brother'.

* In this case your thoughts line up with the Bible, which also adds that it will only finally be resolved by the Man who often is named by you and all your fellow skeptics in anger when things go wrong.

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What if the bible isn't true ?

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

What if the bible isn't true ?

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Well that would be your only hope.
For Strobel and others like him who didn't want it to be true but did spend time to test it Historically and Scientifically, then it's accuracy and truthfulness proved to be timeless.
Why not grit your teeth and at half time, watch THIS (?)

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

Well that would be your only hope.
For Strobel and others like him who didn't want it to be true but did spend time to test it Historically and Scientifically, then it's accuracy and truthfulness proved to be timeless.
Why not grit your teeth and at half time, watch THIS (?)

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There is no factual evidence of God's existence in that at all

Strobel isn't a scientist reborn as a Christian

Hes a Christian

Send me a photo of God recently on a tour or some bones or a video of him chatting to friends

If God's so powerful .....which is what you lot think and tell us all ....that's easy.....he controls the weather and allows Adolf Hitler to have a good time killing people ......

Then instead of allowing vulnerable and gullible and brainwashed people to try and persuade us idiots he exists ......

Why doesn't he do it ?

Send me another message when you have had contact with him

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

There is no factual evidence of God's existence in that at all

Strobel isn't a scientist reborn as a Christian

Hes a Christian

Send me a photo of God recently on a tour or some bones or a video of him chatting to friends

If God's so powerful .....which is what you lot think and tell us all ....that's easy.....he controls the weather and allows Adolf Hitler to have a good time killing people ......

Then instead of allowing vulnerable and gullible and brainwashed people to try and persuade us idiots he exists ......

Why doesn't he do it ?

Send me another message when you have had contact with him

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You may not be willing to take God seriously and seem too nervous to dig as deep as an award willing journalist like Strobel, but keep asking your questions, and appreciate that answering your own questions is not really serious reseach, simply denial.

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Originally Posted by truthpaste

You may not be willing to take God seriously and seem too nervous to dig as deep as an award willing journalist like Strobel, but keep asking your questions, and appreciate that answering your own questions is not really serious reseach, simply denial.

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I am not nervous

If God exists he will know that on the whole I have done mostly good stuff during my lifetime and will welcome me upstairs

Take care

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I am not nervous

If God exists he will know that on the whole I have done mostly good stuff during my lifetime and will welcome me upstairs

Take care

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Most people will say the same - "I have done mostly good stuff" (this is our perspective).

You see God sees each of our hearts as they really are, and nobody on this board is any different:-

"For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all sexual immorality, theft, lying, and slander" - Matthew 15:19

Which is why we all need a Saviour.
We can't make it via good works, religious membership, decency or payment.

Romans 3:23 - "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

Well there we go then

A week and off it kicks again

I have watched the Israeli government and army spokespersons recently and I don't believe they could have been any more confrontational and beligerent

Some of them are totally war mad

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Well there we go then

A week and off it kicks again

I have watched the Israeli government and army spokespersons recently and I don't believe they could have been any more confrontational and beligerent

Some of them are totally war mad

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Hamas fired missiles into Israel didn't they?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Hamas fired missiles into Israel didn't they?

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I don't believe a word that comes out of Israel after watching their officials recently

They were all zionist nutcases

And if rockets were fired into their territory to immediately go in again like they have shows to me they are as culpable as hamas

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

I don't believe a word that comes out of Israel after watching their officials recently

They were all zionist nutcases

And if rockets were fired into their territory to immediately go in again like they have shows to me they are as culpable as hamas

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Do you believe what Hamas say then? I mean, Hamas do want to wipe Israel off the map. They did sanction the murder of 1200 people and they couldn't care less about their own population. Seems quite possible that they would break a ceasefire to me.

And that doesn't change opinions on Israel but facts matter and I don't think it can be alluded to that Israel broke the ceasefire with no evidence of that.

Did anyone watch Question Time on BBC1 TV last night? I'm not a great fan of Andrew Neil but I couldn't help feeling he hit the nail on the head when the inevitable topic of the war in Gaza came up. Basically he said that in his opinion there is no solution, military or politically, and consequently no hope. Pretty blunt stuff. Obviously this didn't go down too well with one of the other panelists, Layla Moran (Lib Dem M.P.) who is Palestinian and has relatives over there. She was clearly shocked by his comments but maybe this is the first time she had been confronted with the stark reality of it all?

He also mentioned that the IDF had considered the use of nuclear weapons - I don't know where he got that from, he didn't elaborate but even allowing for the war-monger faction within Israel that sounds pretty far fetched.

Well worth watching on iPlayer if you missed it.

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Did anyone watch Question Time on BBC1 TV last night? I'm not a great fan of Andrew Neil but I couldn't help feeling he hit the nail on the head when the inevitable topic of the war in Gaza came up. Basically he said that in his opinion there is no solution, military or politically, and consequently no hope. Pretty blunt stuff. Obviously this didn't go down too well with one of the other panelists, Layla Moran (Lib Dem M.P.) who is Palestinian and has relatives over there. She was clearly shocked by his comments but maybe this is the first time she had been confronted with the stark reality of it all?

He also mentioned that the IDF had considered the use of nuclear weapons - I don't know where he got that from, he didn't elaborate but even allowing for the war-monger faction within Israel that sounds pretty far fetched.

Well worth watching on iPlayer if you missed it.

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It's not far fetched. It has been a part of the Gaza crisis for 2 weeks or more:

https://apnews.com/article/israel-nu...6796b0ade65768

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Do you believe what Hamas say then? I mean, Hamas do want to wipe Israel off the map. They did sanction the murder of 1200 people and they couldn't care less about their own population. Seems quite possible that they would break a ceasefire to me.

And that doesn't change opinions on Israel but facts matter and I don't think it can be alluded to that Israel broke the ceasefire with no evidence of that.

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I don't know who broke the 'ceasefire' first. It could have been Hamas. It could have been Israel. Neither are trustworthy sources of information - although Hamas do seem to be reliable on Gaza civilian deaths (their figures appear reasonbable and are independently verified).

But if you are going on 'out of context statements' then Hamas have also agreed to peace talks, a two state solution and a future that includes an Israeli state (all since 2016), and Israel have publicly boasted of an ambition to expel all remaining Palestinians from a Greater israel and to establish an ethno-religious Zionist state 'from the river to the sea'.

I suppose you just believe what sounds credible at the time.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Do you believe what Hamas say then? I mean, Hamas do want to wipe Israel off the map. They did sanction the murder of 1200 people and they couldn't care less about their own population. Seems quite possible that they would break a ceasefire to me.

And that doesn't change opinions on Israel but facts matter and I don't think it can be alluded to that Israel broke the ceasefire with no evidence of that.

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Oh no , they are complete nutters

But so are Israel and the problem is that they are pretending they are not

I have no idea who started the latest charge into insanity but I do know that the hugely armed Israel have attacked again

That decision was made by Israel and watching their firing squad of officials this week I am surprised they didn't start earlier

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Originally Posted by Gofer Blue

Did anyone watch Question Time on BBC1 TV last night? I'm not a great fan of Andrew Neil but I couldn't help feeling he hit the nail on the head when the inevitable topic of the war in Gaza came up. Basically he said that in his opinion there is no solution, military or politically, and consequently no hope. Pretty blunt stuff. Obviously this didn't go down too well with one of the other panelists, Layla Moran (Lib Dem M.P.) who is Palestinian and has relatives over there. She was clearly shocked by his comments but maybe this is the first time she had been confronted with the stark reality of it all?

He also mentioned that the IDF had considered the use of nuclear weapons - I don't know where he got that from, he didn't elaborate but even allowing for the war-monger faction within Israel that sounds pretty far fetched.

Well worth watching on iPlayer if you missed it.

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There is no hope at the moment and I think that's probably a statement that could be made into an infinity

I haven’t watched it but based on what you quoted he’s absolutely right.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Hamas fired missiles into Israel didn't they?

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Whether they did or whether they didn’t, they are a terrorist organisation. The Israeli government are supposedly a democratically elected government, who should know better than to kill 1000s of innocent civilians and cause a humanitarian crisis.

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Originally Posted by stevo

Whether they did or whether they didn’t, they are a terrorist organisation. The Israeli government are supposedly a democratically elected government, who should know better than to kill 1000s of innocent civilians and cause a humanitarian crisis.

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I don't entirely disagree with you. But the point is that Hamas broke the ceasefire. Israel can't be expected to keep tolerating missiles being fired into it. And that's not to say any response is acceptable, but it's important to recognise the was peace for several days and that was broken.