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His “career average” has improved particularly in the last 5 years. He is also a player that performs on the big stage and they are the players that are respected.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp_1927
Alistair Cook said on TMS about Broad last night , if you played against him in County Cricket you would often wonder how he had taken 600 Test wickets as he often bowled within himself. Statistics aren’t everything, unless you’re Geoffrey Boycott.
I cant be having Josh Hazelwood as vastly superior to Stuart Broad. I dont think the other 2 are either though can take they may be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp_1927
Broad is an all time great who has had an incredible career.
Stats aren't everything, but you're the one that brought them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
I didn’t bring them up you did and you have been proved wrong on stats alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp_1927
Personally I think Cummins and Anderson are different level to broad. I don't think Cummins has been anywhere near his best this series, but his record in tests is fantastic. I do think Broad has been lucky to keep the likes of woakes and wood out the side on occasions in the past. Although his performance this series has been very good indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
'proved wrong' on a subjective opinion of where a player compares to his peers. Aye mate, you've beaten me hands down. I bow to your superior knowledge. I believe the links to the stats were in your post, unless I'm really missing something here.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
Stuart Broad is an all time great. He’s got 600 wickets. He always turns up, he’s one of the best players of his generation and he’s almost certainly going out as the leading wicket taker in an Ashes series at 37. A lot of Aussies say that Broad is a much harder bowler to face. Him and Jimmy walk into every England side ever, and Broad walks into every side in the world now.
You mentioned his bowling average in your post , hence the links provided. He has improved year on year when most go in decline. His bowling average in the last 5 years is up there with the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp_1927
I did mention his bowling average. It's an average, allied with what I've seen and felt from watching cricket that doesn't have him in my personal list of modern day 'greats'. The mcgraths, Jimmy's, steyns, rabadas, Cummings of the world. For me he's a level well below those guys. I don't understand why you can't disagree without having to make it personal , loads of other people disagree with my sentiment on broad and set out proper reasons why. You just seem to need an argument whenever you can find one.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
How many reasons do you want , I’ve given you a simple explanation, with his average. Cricket is all about opinions so, it’s hardly personal.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp_1927
Perhaps your “ bow to your superior knowledge” got the reply it deserved.
Totally agree, It is all about opinions, which is why ideas and comments about 'being proved wrong' are so stupid and needless. But it's not really fair for the 2 of us to carry on arguing on a decent thread, so maybe we should both stop needling each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by TWGL1
As a slightly related afterthought . As for out there opinions, I don't think anything anyone could say on a message board could even compete with real life.
Stokes made a comment before the ashes that seemed to suggest a young Alistair Cook wouldn't get in this current England side.
To be fair to him, it was a ballsy thing to say and has been somewhat backed up in the way that England's approach has unnerved the aussies. Although I personally think a young Alistair Cook would and should be welcome in any test side. I do wonder if a few members of the press pack are holding that comment up their sleeves to try and beat him with at a later point in time.
I was really surprised bookies were offering single figure odds of this being a draw. Doubt there will be any more play today and iffy forecast tomorrow also.
McGrath is a previous generation. Broad didn’t play a test match until McGrath had retired. Broad is slightly worse than some mentioned, to say he is well below them is laughable. The bloke has SIX HUNDRED test wickets.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp_1927
Saw one comment, he’s only been good since 2013. That’s ten bloody years :hehe:
Havent watched any of today.
Why is Wood only now coming on.?? I presume hes carrying an injury cant be tactical.
Did anyone else watching the minutes before play started today think it was really crass the way Nasser Hussein (who I like far more as a pundit than I did as a player) was being interviewed about fifteen yards from where David Warner was stood and he carried on about how many times Broad had got him out. Whatever else he is, Warner is a fighter and I’m sure remarks like that would have got his competitive juices flowing.
Warner’s just got to 50 and Australia are over a 100 for 0 on a day which started strangely with Broad and Anderson turning down easy singles seemingly to protect the other from having to face.
As for Broad, surely any argument starts and ends with the number of wickets he’s got? I’d also say that he was a very dangerous batsmen as well until the serious blow to his head when the ball got stuck inside his helmet sustained against India.
I reckon McGraths just about young enough to be considered modern day, although take your point that he's a different generation. I'd have to say there's a bit more than a slight difference between the likes of broad and the players in that list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
In terms of total wickets, it's a hell of an achievement but I'd put a lot down to his durability as well as his talent. It's very commendable how he's kept himself in shape and says a lot about his natural strength and a good fitness regime. But by the same token, I don't see dale steyn as a lesser bowler because the injuries kept him to 400 odd.
I think Broad summed himself up better than I ever could:
“I think ultimately how I’ve played my sport is, I’d never want anyone in the crowd or watching at home to think he’s not giving absolute everything, he’s not putting his heart and soul into it,” Broad said. “I know I’m not the most skilful player, I know that I need every inch of my competitive spirit and my drive and my effort to get anything out of my ability. And I would say every day I’ve put on a Nottinghamshire shirt and an England shirt I’ve given my heart and soul. I can’t think there’d be too many cricket fans out there that would think I’ve slacked off for a moment.”
Unbelievable from the Aussie openers. Actually showing a bit of intent aswell, something that has been seriously lacking from them during the rest of the series
7.6 on betdaq at the moment. Could be a good price with that forecastQuote:
Originally Posted by Father Dougal
Well they aren't getting back on today that's for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp_1927
We shall see tomorrow but definitely more rain forecast again
McGrath is nearly 20 years older. If you compare him to Broad, you'd have to include Walsh and Ambrose etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp_1927
Broad is fantastic. He's being very modest there, he usually is, until they try to rest him :hehe:. Broad has got better and better, he's bowling as well as he ever has. I find the desperation to knock him down remarkable. He walks into any team in the world, and is absolutely one of the best cricketers of his generation.
Also, longevity is a skill. He has dedicated himself to the cause for nearly 20 years. He's obviously been lucky to a degree but he's also had to graft.
There was no desperation to knock him down, and the graft needed to play as long as he has was acknowledged in my post. There was no real knock down in my first post either, just the observation that his legacy probably looks more flattering now than it would after a potential struggle in India.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro de la Rosa
An improved forecast for London today with the possibility of disruption in the afternoon, but the first and last sessions should be okay. I’d make Australia favourites now.
Big first hour I suppose. Couple of early wickets for England and everything changes . Does look like the Aussies have the upper hand thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by the other bob wilson
If Wood is fit enough to bowl flat out then its still game on.
Think the issue with this and bazball is because they make their runs fast and maybe get out quicker their strike bowlers spend more time bowling or in the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilts
That's got to be a physical drain on them.
Just typing bazball brings a bit of sick into my mouth.