The Donald Trump thread

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Depends who you mean by people I guess.

It is an open question how the people of Venezuela will act to this aggression. Will they rally out of patriotism or see it as an opportunity to overthrow the remnants of the regime with US backing?

The MAGA movement will probably shed some believers who thought Trump was different and find that he is as imperial as some of his predecessors. Department of War, clues in the title!

Apart from a few dissenters the Republicans in Congress will shrug their shoulders as the "King" yet again assumes powers that they constitutionally hold.

A bunch of billionaires and carpet baggers in stetsons will be licking their lips at the real prize of this special operation/declaration of war. Venezuela has almost four times the oil reserves of the US, who is plundering its own at a rapid rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_oil_reserves

Certainly people like me who believe that Trump is an abomination will add warmonger to all his venality and immorality. You can concurrently believe that Maduro is a disgrace and think this is wrong.

The Trump apologists on here, several having gone deep on things like the the 2nd Iraq War and WMD, will wait for their favourite x feeds and websites to give them supportive talking points before they offer up "original" thoughts of their own. So far it is voting machines and the war on drugs but it is a fast moving environment!

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Fair play Cyril, the older you get and the more boosters you take you are becoming completely unhinged, maybe i missed it but i do not remember you ever getting this irate with previous regime changes, Libya, Iraq, Syria the Balkans spring to mind not forgetting Ukraine, i'm a little more concerned for the people of Iran at the moment but hope that they manage to throw off the mullah brigade and return to the country to the people in that they can go about their business as in years before. These hard left commie dictators are getting taken down piecemeal and its a great thing, I wonder if a certain PM of a western country is currently looking over his shoulder at the moment?, he should be, I'll never be a fan of regime change by force as in this case and favour the Iranian approach, lets wait and see how much the people of Venezuela react over the coming weeks, i note that Maduro was recently trying to throw Columbia under the bus for his drug cartel problems. Your Go :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Depends who you mean by people I guess.

It is an open question how the people of Venezuela will act to this aggression. Will they rally out of patriotism or see it as an opportunity to overthrow the remnants of the regime with US backing?

The MAGA movement will probably shed some believers who thought Trump was different and find that he is as imperial as some of his predecessors. Department of War, clues in the title!

Apart from a few dissenters the Republicans in Congress will shrug their shoulders as the "King" yet again assumes powers that they constitutionally hold.

A bunch of billionaires and carpet baggers in stetsons will be licking their lips at the real prize of this special operation/declaration of war. Venezuela has almost four times the oil reserves of the US, who is plundering its own at a rapid rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_oil_reserves

Certainly people like me who believe that Trump is an abomination will add warmonger to all his venality and immorality. You can concurrently believe that Maduro is a disgrace and think this is wrong.

The Trump apologists on here, several having gone deep on things like the the 2nd Iraq War and WMD, will wait for their favourite x feeds and websites to give them supportive talking points before they offer up "original" thoughts of their own. So far it is voting machines and the war on drugs but it is a fast moving environment!

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It’s a good point you make about Trump the Warmonger. My views on Trump have been made pretty clear on here over the last decade or so, but I’ve always thought the line about his Administrations being involved in less wars than recent Democratic ones was an effective one (even if it may have not stood up to rigorous examination). It’s a line which can’t be can’t be used any more though- whatever you may think of the Venezuelan Government, they’re not the aggressors here.

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

Fair play Cyril, the older you get and the more boosters you take you are becoming completely unhinged, maybe i missed it but i do not remember you ever getting this irate with previous regime changes, Libya, Iraq, Syria the Balkans spring to mind not forgetting Ukraine, i'm a little more concerned for the people of Iran at the moment but hope that they manage to throw off the mullah brigade and return to the country to the people in that they can go about their business as in years before. These hard left commie dictators are getting taken down piecemeal and its a great thing, I wonder if a certain PM of a western country is currently looking over his shoulder at the moment?, he should be, I'll never be a fan of regime change by force as in this case and favour the Iranian approach, lets wait and see how much the people of Venezuela react over the coming weeks, i note that Maduro was recently trying to throw Columbia under the bus for his drug cartel problems. Your Go :biggrin:

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Updated list.

1) Those Chavez Dominion Servers;
2) Shutting down those nasty drug cartels;
3) Good enough for the Commies and their ilk;
3) Yeah.............but whatabout?

Free Nicolas Maduro!

Fair play to Cyril, he's as mad as a box of frogs :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Free Nicolas Maduro!

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That was a reply to the other bob wilson.

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

Fair play Cyril, the older you get and the more boosters you take you are becoming completely unhinged, maybe i missed it but i do not remember you ever getting this irate with previous regime changes, Libya, Iraq, Syria the Balkans spring to mind not forgetting Ukraine, i'm a little more concerned for the people of Iran at the moment but hope that they manage to throw off the mullah brigade and return to the country to the people in that they can go about their business as in years before. These hard left commie dictators are getting taken down piecemeal and its a great thing, I wonder if a certain PM of a western country is currently looking over his shoulder at the moment?, he should be, I'll never be a fan of regime change by force as in this case and favour the Iranian approach, lets wait and see how much the people of Venezuela react over the coming weeks, i note that Maduro was recently trying to throw Columbia under the bus for his drug cartel problems. Your Go :biggrin:

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Maduro isn't hard left, he's not even Left wing, check out his economic policies and who the people are that are benefiting from them.

Trump fans on here getting very excited at the prospect of Trump Inc and his ‘real estate’ golf buddies getting rich on Venezuelan oil.

It must be like another Christmas for them!

Today Venezuela, annexe the Saarland next, then an assault on Poland, leading up to the long march to Moscow. American Lebensraum or sheer piracy? Heil Trump!

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

That was a reply to the other bob wilson.

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Fair play to Bob when he said a few posts ago that your heart isn't in it any more.

The guy who stopped voting after WMD and Iraq and railed against regime change actions by other Presidents is left posting one line inanities.

Even now, you can't bring yourself to "jump off the fence". You would have thought you would have learned your lesson from Sally that just because you love someone unreservedly dooesn't mean they love you back!

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Updated list.

1) Those Chavez Dominion Servers;
2) Shutting down those nasty drug cartels;
3) Good enough for the Commies and their ilk;
3) Yeah.............but whatabout?

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1) Clinton's
2) Obama's
3) Brennan's
4) Comey's
5) Bush's

Decades of criminality and money laundering falling apart :hehe:

Deep State retaliation incoming ?

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Fair play to Cyril, he's as mad as a box of frogs :hehe:

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He seems to have lost his Mucka and BFF of late :shrug:

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Fair play to Bob when he said a few posts ago that your heart isn't in it any more.

The guy who stopped voting after WMD and Iraq and railed against regime change actions by other Presidents is left posting one line inanities.

Even now, you can't bring yourself to "jump off the fence". You would have thought you would have learned your lesson from Sally that just because you love someone unreservedly dooesn't mean they love you back!

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I was born to be the voice of reason, always a fence sitter, that's me!

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

I was born to be the voice of reason, always a fence sitter, that's me!

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https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1422326/dl

:hehe:

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Originally Posted by Heathblue

He seems to have lost his Mucka and BFF of late :shrug:

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Life is tough when even your wingman doesn't believe your BS anymore :hehe:

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

Life is tough when even your wingman doesn't believe your BS anymore :hehe:

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Why? Judging by your comments these days compared to what you were saying earlier in this thread, you don’t believe your BS any more either.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

Why? Judging by your comments these days compared to what you were saying earlier in this thread, you don’t believe your BS any more either.

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I always stick to the facts as I understand them to be, and I've never been any good at picking sides out of loyalty to some cause or other.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Maduro isn't hard left, he's not even Left wing, check out his economic policies and who the people are that are benefiting from them.

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🤣 They are never left wing when they fail!

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

Depends who you mean by people I guess.

It is an open question how the people of Venezuela will act to this aggression. Will they rally out of patriotism or see it as an opportunity to overthrow the remnants of the regime with US backing?

The MAGA movement will probably shed some believers who thought Trump was different and find that he is as imperial as some of his predecessors. Department of War, clues in the title!

Apart from a few dissenters the Republicans in Congress will shrug their shoulders as the "King" yet again assumes powers that they constitutionally hold.

A bunch of billionaires and carpet baggers in stetsons will be licking their lips at the real prize of this special operation/declaration of war. Venezuela has almost four times the oil reserves of the US, who is plundering its own at a rapid rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_oil_reserves

Certainly people like me who believe that Trump is an abomination will add warmonger to all his venality and immorality. You can concurrently believe that Maduro is a disgrace and think this is wrong.

The Trump apologists on here, several having gone deep on things like the the 2nd Iraq War and WMD, will wait for their favourite x feeds and websites to give them supportive talking points before they offer up "original" thoughts of their own. So far it is voting machines and the war on drugs but it is a fast moving environment!

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Yeah, I mean the people of Venezuela. They won't all think the same, but what the general reaction is will be absolutely key.

I dont agree with the methods, and it's hugely risky and let's be clear, almost certainly illegal. But I should imagine that millions will be celebrating, particularly those who have fled the country etc.

Venezuela are allies of Putin and China too, so there's a bigger game here I think.

If the people accept it and free elections are incoming then that's what is key here.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

Yeah, I mean the people of Venezuela. They won't all think the same, but what the general reaction is will be absolutely key.

I dont agree with the methods, and it's hugely risky and let's be clear, almost certainly illegal. But I should imagine that millions will be celebrating, particularly those who have fled the country etc.

Venezuela are allies of Putin and China too, so there's a bigger game here I think.

If the people accept it and free elections are incoming then that's what is key here.

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The timeline on this so far:

1) Trump says at a press conference that the USA will run the country. He states that the Deputy President, Delcy Rodriguez will assist in this endeavour.

2) Shortly after, he throws the recent Nobel Peace Prize winner and widely believed winner of of the last election, Maria Corina Machado under a bus. Apparently because "she doesn't have the support or respect within the country". Strange thing to say about someone you were arguing was democratically elected but I guess she does have a proper Peace Prize.

3) Delcy Rodriguez, touted earlier as the puppet, goes on national television to state that Maduro is the only legitimate President, he should be returned and Venezuela "will never again be a colony for any empire".

As usual. The bombing bit appears the easy bit but none of this is shouting free elections any time soon!

I hope this becomes Trumps Vietnam and the US is stuck in horrific guerrilla warfare sustaining horrific losses .

Maybe then the nation will wake up.

Another desperate attempt to deflect from the Epstein files. Steal baby, steal

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Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman

I hope this becomes Trumps Vietnam and the US is stuck in horrific guerrilla warfare sustaining horrific losses .

Maybe then the nation will wake up.

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How many body bags per week are you hoping for?

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

How many body bags per week are you hoping for?

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Exactly. What a stupid comment.

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

The timeline on this so far:

1) Trump says at a press conference that the USA will run the country. He states that the Deputy President, Delcy Rodriguez will assist in this endeavour.

2) Shortly after, he throws the recent Nobel Peace Prize winner and widely believed winner of of the last election, Maria Corina Machado under a bus. Apparently because "she doesn't have the support or respect within the country". Strange thing to say about someone you were arguing was democratically elected but I guess she does have a proper Peace Prize.

3) Delcy Rodriguez, touted earlier as the puppet, goes on national television to state that Maduro is the only legitimate President, he should be returned and Venezuela "will never again be a colony for any empire".

As usual. The bombing bit appears the easy bit but none of this is shouting free elections any time soon!

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All this only works with US and UN backed elections and a clear timetable for them. Even then it may not work.

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Originally Posted by Harry Paget Flashman

I hope this becomes Trumps Vietnam and the US is stuck in horrific guerrilla warfare sustaining horrific losses .

Maybe then the nation will wake up.

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Pretty Horrible thing to wish for especially since pretty much half of the country would already be against Trump and this action will no doubt disenfranchise MAGA supporters.

I have to be honest, I’ve no idea what the motivation is but I think those who are mentioning oil are very wide of the mark.
If there is rare earth minerals there…that’s another matter.

I’m not buying the Narco Terrorism factor either, especially after former Honduras president, Juan Hernandez pardoned last month.

There does have to be some rhyme or reason…maybe China or Russia were exerting too much influence, too close to The US.

Anyway, wanting to see horrific casualties is pretty low…even for The Real Flashman.

Maybe it's what's needed.

Hopefully some gun toting nut job out there decides not to blow away kids and starts taking out billionaires or MAGA lunatics. I don't believe there was an assignation attempt on trump but wish one had wiped the nonce out.

In 10 years time when the next 9/11 comes along they'll want everyone to weep. You reap what you sow.

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Originally Posted by Wales-Bales

How many body bags per week are you hoping for?

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And, if it comes to that, who’ll be responsible for it?

You and 9thdrs only have “clever” remarks in response to yesterday’s events, but how is what Trump authorised yesterday different from what you accuse those recent Presidents you despise of?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

And, if it comes to that, who’ll be responsible for it?

You and 9thdrs only have “clever” remarks in response to yesterday’s events, but how is what Trump authorised yesterday different from what you accuse those recent Presidents you despise of?

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I know that you aren’t responding to me, Bob, but I don’t think it will come to that.

It shouldn’t have happened though.
My thoughts are generally WTF?

Wishing for mass casualties is shit though, especially considering that if it were to happen the casualties would more than likely be inner city Black/Hispanic lads and lasses along with kids from the rust belt.

Schadenfreude Is a nasty business.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

And, if it comes to that, who’ll be responsible for it?

You and 9thdrs only have “clever” remarks in response to yesterday’s events, but how is what Trump authorised yesterday different from what you accuse those recent Presidents you despise of?

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Originally Posted by Wash DC Blue

I know that you aren’t responding to me, Bob, but I don’t think it will come to that.

It shouldn’t have happened though.
My thoughts are generally WTF?

Wishing for mass casualties is shit though, especially considering that if it were to happen the casualties would more than likely be inner city Black/Hispanic lads and lasses along with kids from the rust belt.

Schadenfreude Is a nasty business.

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This was aimed at Flashman’ comments btw.

I think "the mask slips" when you see comments like wishing for Venezuela to be contemporary Americas Vietnam. Just like Venezuela is a pawn in Trump and Americas global game, so to it is for many people on the left who just view it as part of a wider ideological, anti-imperial game.

I don't think anyone is comfortable with the methods, bur it really is a case of seeing how the Venezuelan people react here, and what their next move is, which has to be towards free elections.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

🤣 They are never left wing when they fail!

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Exactly, you could have just admitted that years ago :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

And, if it comes to that, whoÂ’ll be responsible for it?

You and 9thdrs only have “clever” remarks in response to yesterday’s events, but how is what Trump authorised yesterday different from what you accuse those recent Presidents you despise of?

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In fairness, Twitter probably hadn't told them what to say on the subject, so there's always going to be that delay.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think "the mask slips" when you see comments like wishing for Venezuela to be contemporary Americas Vietnam. Just like Venezuela is a pawn in Trump and Americas global game, so to it is for many people on the left who just view it as part of a wider ideological, anti-imperial game.

I don't think anyone is comfortable with the methods, bur it really is a case of seeing how the Venezuelan people react here, and what their next move is, which has to be towards free elections.

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For me it's not really a wish for death etc. but it kind of has to be 'not quite as easy as this' otherwise the entire world order has changed overnight. America used to feel like they had to build some kind of phoney consensus across the west to do anything remotely controversial. Now it doesn't, it just acts, so why won't it go further? That is a worrying prospect on the horizon.

America doesn't seem to be seeking free elections, they have tossed aside the opposition and are quite happy to work with the existing government in Venezuela as long as they get what they want out of it.

The problem we have is that if someone had said 'Trump is going to fly chinooks into Caracas and kidnap Maduro' last week, the majority of people would have thought that was massive hyperbole/'TDS' etc.. But now that has happened, the same people are going 'hmmm let's see how this works out'. The goalposts of normality are moving every single week. Eventually you find yourself explaining away things that seemed like a straight to video action film plot.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

�� They are never left wing when they fail!

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Bit like 'it's not brexit if it fails' right? Or do you choose to believe that one?

People say "let's see what the Venezuelan people make of all this" but they won't get any say in the plundering of their oil reserves by US oil companies. The next Venezuelan government will be a vassal state of the USA or, more accurately Emperor Trump.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Exactly, you could have just admitted that years ago :thumbup:

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😂👍

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Originally Posted by Dorcus

People say "let's see what the Venezuelan people make of all this" but they won't get any say in the plundering of their oil reserves by US oil companies. The next Venezuelan government will be a vassal state of the USA or, more accurately Emperor Trump.

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They tried to have a say and the result was fixed, no?

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

Bit like 'it's not brexit if it fails' right? Or do you choose to believe that one?

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Thats never been my position, although some people do claim that "we never had Brexit" just like some claim "it/he/they was never left-wing anyway!".

No, my position is to point out that what's happening here is happening almost everywhere. Ergo, our issues aren't the B word. That's a distraction.

But we shouldn't go off topic here.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman

For me it's not really a wish for death etc. but it kind of has to be 'not quite as easy as this' otherwise the entire world order has changed overnight. America used to feel like they had to build some kind of phoney consensus across the west to do anything remotely controversial. Now it doesn't, it just acts, so why won't it go further? That is a worrying prospect on the horizon.

America doesn't seem to be seeking free elections, they have tossed aside the opposition and are quite happy to work with the existing government in Venezuela as long as they get what they want out of it.

The problem we have is that if someone had said 'Trump is going to fly chinooks into Caracas and kidnap Maduro' last week, the majority of people would have thought that was massive hyperbole/'TDS' etc.. But now that has happened, the same people are going 'hmmm let's see how this works out'. The goalposts of normality are moving every single week. Eventually you find yourself explaining away things that seemed like a straight to video action film plot.

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Yeah that is a fair point. It's a pretty remarkable - if far from unprecedented - turn of events.

I guess there is a wider philosophical question about whether it is just to do nothing if something bad is happening in another country, and thats a tough one to answer and needs to be balanced with self-determination. For me Venezuela probably hadn't crossed that threshold but let's be honest, none of us know much here about the reality of life for people there.

That why what happens now is key. If the people on balance welcome whats happened and if there's a clear route to elections soon then despite the methods the real life outcomes for people may improve, but it's too soon to tell. Ive still not seen much evidence of widespread public demonstrations like we have seen in Venezuela before or like we saw in Eastern Europe when communism fell for example.