NHS in Stoke outbids private firm on £80million scanning contract, yet loses

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Originally Posted by Igovernor wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 10:26

Lisvaneblue It does not work like that, any company registered for VAT including the NHS offsets vat paid out to what it receives, so it is reclaimed. It's the law http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif

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Ok, but NHS hospitals are not VAT registered

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 11:11

Lisvaneblue It does not work like that, any company registered for VAT including the NHS offsets vat paid out to what it receives, so it is reclaimed. It's the law http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif

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Originally Posted by Igovernor wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 10:26

Ok, but NHS hospitals are not VAT registered

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I have no idea who is right or wrong here, but in general if Igovernor says it's nighttime it's usually middle of the afternoon. The bloke is wrong on just about everything, but always sounds very convincing. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif

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Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 10:10

The provision of healthcare is an exempt item for VAT. Any front end service provider would not charge or recover VAT.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 10:06

That's not so. VAT is charged on good purchased by the NHS.

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Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:57

I worked in the drug industry and VAT was added to medicine purchases and this could not be reclaimed by the NHS.

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Similarly for the scanning service

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Originally Posted by TruBlue wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 11:16

Lisvaneblue It does not work like that, any company registered for VAT including the NHS offsets vat paid out to what it receives, so it is reclaimed. It's the law http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 11:11

Ok, but NHS hospitals are not VAT registered

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Originally Posted by Igovernor wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 10:26

I have no idea who is right or wrong here, but in general if Igovernor says it's nighttime it's usually middle of the day. The bloke is wrong on just about everything, but always sounds very convincing. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif

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Swings and roundabouts!!

Lisvane blue what makes you think hospitals are not vat registered of course they are

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 11:18

The provision of healthcare is an exempt item for VAT. Any front end service provider would not charge or recover VAT.

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Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 10:10

That's not so. VAT is charged on good purchased by the NHS.

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Originally Posted by lisvaneblue wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 10:06

I worked in the drug industry and VAT was added to medicine purchases and this could not be reclaimed by the NHS.

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Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:57

If however a private company provided a service which included the provision of medicines the VAT could be reclaimed.

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http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/thumbup.gif

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 10:28

Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?

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This and I fear it will be coming soon in some form or another. Some on this board will rejoice.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 11:37

Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 10:28

The day we need to start worrying is the day the uninsured people are turned away when sick.

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you really think anyone on this board would rejoice http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/sherlock.gif cant see it myself, different views maybe from different posters but only a total bellend would rejoice at the above......... wait hang on, you may be correct http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif

An extraordinarily poor effort on the part of the OP, it must be said.

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 11:37

Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 10:28

The day we need to start worrying is the day the uninsured people are turned away when sick.

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This is scaremongering. Most if not all agree that healthcare provision should always be based on need and be free at point of use irrespective of ability to pay.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:06

It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.

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Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 08:12

Anything to please the Tory donors though.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:46

Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.

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It's hardly a lame assumption given that you have totally ignored, or perhaps have no knowledge of, EU public procurement law?

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Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:03

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html

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An attempt to prop up a failed and anachronistic ideology - public = bad; private = good.

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Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 12:13

It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:06

Anything to please the Tory donors though.

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Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 08:12

Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:46

I fecking despair at times.

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But hes read the Health and Social Care Act 2012 (SI 257) ? http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/hehe.gif

No doubt , the net result will be that ordinary people in Stoke will have a poorer health service and some dedicated and overworked staff will be further burdened.

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Originally Posted by Capt. Darling wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 12:25

It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.

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Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 12:13

Anything to please the Tory donors though.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 09:06

Another one spouting off about things they have absolutely zero knowledge about, making themselves look rather stupid, all for the sake of making a false political sound bite. Pathetic.

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Originally Posted by TH63 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 08:12

I fecking despair at times.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:46

"Absolutely zero knowledge"? What a lame assumption.

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All 12 pages. http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/Dsmile.gif

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Originally Posted by VimanaMan wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 12:30

No doubt , the net result will be that ordinary people in Stoke will have a poorer health service and some dedicated and overworked staff will be further burdened.

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Why do you think it will be a poorer service? Surely as with most contracts there will be some pretty strict SLA's?

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Originally Posted by Gwynedd Blue wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 12:18

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html

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Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:03

<i>A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.

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Yes-if there had been anything in this DTM and Archie would have been all over this thread.

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Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 12:04

Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 11:37

The day we need to start worrying is the day the uninsured people are turned away when sick.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 10:28

This and I fear it will be coming soon in some form or another. Some on this board will rejoice.

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This year both the RCN and the BMA have discussed charging fees for GP consultations.

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Originally Posted by GRUMPYS DEN wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 12:35

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-NHS-hospital-scanning-c ontract-won-private/story-25444112-detail/story.html

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Originally Posted by Gwynedd Blue wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 12:18

A CONTRACT to diagnose illnesses in thousands of patients has been handed to a private firm even though the NHS offered to do the work for seven million pounds cheaper.

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Originally Posted by Colonel Cærdiffi wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 00:03

The scans for cancer and other conditions are performed on a state-of-the-art machine at the Royal Stoke University Hospital partly paid for by public donations.

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http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/rolleyes.gif

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Originally Posted by Feedback wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 12:04

Isnt it more important the contract is offered to the best supplier for the good of the NHS, no matter where it comes from?

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Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 11:37

The day we need to start worrying is the day the uninsured people are turned away when sick.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 10:28

This and I fear it will be coming soon in some form or another. Some on this board will rejoice.

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Everyone agrees that people shouldn't have sex with children. It seems that people in positions of power often say one thing in public and do another in private when there is some benefit to themselves...

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Originally Posted by TruBlue wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 12:33

No doubt , the net result will be that ordinary people in Stoke will have a poorer health service and some dedicated and overworked staff will be further burdened.

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Originally Posted by VimanaMan wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 12:30

Why do you think it will be a poorer service? Surely as with most contracts there will be some pretty strict SLA's?

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IME SLA's will tend to waste resource in a pointless fudge-fest.

I have no objection to privatisation per se providing it is effective on cost and quality. On the face of it the PFI contracts let by Labour seemed a good idea at the time but years later we find that they have virtually bankrupted the NHS.

As to this specific example in Stoke, if true that is scandalous but we do not know whether the bids were like for like or there were aspects of the contract the NHS bidder could not fulfill.

An earlier poster said this:

&quot;No doubt , the net result will be that ordinary people in Stoke will have a poorer health service and some dedicated and overworked staff will be further burdened&quot;.

That is exactly what has happened in Wales through reductions in expenditure under the Labour controlled NHS.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:46

It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.

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Until we all have a genuine alternative (and no, Farage/Griffin and his ilk are not) then we're all f*cked.

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Originally Posted by waynekerr55 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 13:29

It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:46

Anything to please the Tory donors though.

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Farage is &quot;keeping the flame of Thatcherism&quot; so is not an alternative.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 13:52

It is sad to see the NHS on its knees. 1) A cheaper bid was denied and 2) A private firm would take public money in profit, which imho is a waste of finite public money.

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Originally Posted by waynekerr55 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 13:29

Anything to please the Tory donors though.

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Originally Posted by adz-a32 wrote on Sun, 04 January 2015 06:46

Like New labour are any better.

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Then we are ****ed!