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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 16:55
Whats good news about the poor being told they cant have extra help to further their financial lives and have an asset, an asset that can be passed onto their children, an asset that might hep them get out of the poverty trap. Why is this good news?
Plenty of poor people forced to rent in the private sector too, I assume you are in favour of private landlords also honouring this sort of discount? Everyone wins, right?
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 17:10
Whats good news about the poor being told they cant have extra help to further their financial lives and have an asset, an asset that can be passed onto their children, an asset that might hep them get out of the poverty trap. Why is this good news?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 16:55
Well I assume since millions of people decided to buy their council house that it wasn't so bad...
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
I never said it was bad, I was referring to the hypocrisy of those living in their own properties going on about the need for social housing
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 17:10
Whats good news about the poor being told they cant have extra help to further their financial lives and have an asset, an asset that can be passed onto their children, an asset that might hep them get out of the poverty trap. Why is this good news?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 16:55
Good lord.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:29
I never said it was bad, I was referring to the hypocrisy of those living in their own properties going on about the need for social housing
I don't need to deny myself water for 2 days to be entitled to hold the belief that people need clean drinking water do I?
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:54
Whats good news about the poor being told they cant have extra help to further their financial lives and have an asset, an asset that can be passed onto their children, an asset that might hep them get out of the poverty trap. Why is this good news?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 17:10
Helping keep the poor poor is what this is. Oh lets rejoice.
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/facepalm.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 16:55
the policy helps people remain dependant on the state and certain left ish parties, which suits an agenda for some.
It's not being dogmatic to say I find it hypocritical that those who own their own homes criticise the RTB policy.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:57
I never said it was bad, I was referring to the hypocrisy of those living in their own properties going on about the need for social housing
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:29
You are going to have to be clearer. I don't understand how that is hypocritical at all. There is a waiting list for social housing so there is definitely a 'need' for it.
RTB in itself doesn't increase or decrease demand and doesn't change the housing stock so why do people complain about it?
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 20:27
Whats good news about the poor being told they cant have extra help to further their financial lives and have an asset, an asset that can be passed onto their children, an asset that might hep them get out of the poverty trap. Why is this good news?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:54
Helping keep the poor poor is what this is. Oh lets rejoice.
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/facepalm.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 17:10
the policy helps people remain dependant on the state and certain left ish parties, which suits an agenda for some.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 16:55
its quite alright for those with lovely 3 bedroom semi detached houses in suburbia to wax lyrical about the need for social housing without actually considering living in it themselves.
Oh and you've already climbed down from hypocritical as well so you were talking bobbins there as well.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Kiffa
It is usually those on the left who object to RTB so I'm not sure why you have an issue with that comment. 3 bed semi in suburbia is more a reference to a humble abode that they call their own
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
If you cannot see how you have been dogmatic there then there's hope for you feedy.
You can lead a horse to water and all that.
Laters.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
I was being flippant, not dogmatic. I've already said I'm ambivalent to any RTB policy as it doesn't change total stock or demand. I can't see why some oppose it and certainy not those who own their own homes.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 20:28
I never said it was bad, I was referring to the hypocrisy of those living in their own properties going on about the need for social housing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:57
You are going to have to be clearer. I don't understand how that is hypocritical at all. There is a waiting list for social housing so there is definitely a 'need' for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:29
I don't need to deny myself water for 2 days to be entitled to hold the belief that people need clean drinking water do I?
To make that point not so selfish I would like to add that there are millions of 'me'. If this policy was actually about providing people the opportunity to buy a home then they would find some way to universalise it. It is as ideological as you say the alternative presented by 'the left' is.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 18:34
Whats good news about the poor being told they cant have extra help to further their financial lives and have an asset, an asset that can be passed onto their children, an asset that might hep them get out of the poverty trap. Why is this good news?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 16:55
So yes poor people in private rented properties could benefit over time if/when the space in social housing is free'd up and they get a chance at social housing.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 23:35
I never said it was bad, I was referring to the hypocrisy of those living in their own properties going on about the need for social housing
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 20:28
You are going to have to be clearer. I don't understand how that is hypocritical at all. There is a waiting list for social housing so there is definitely a 'need' for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:57
I don't need to deny myself water for 2 days to be entitled to hold the belief that people need clean drinking water do I?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:29
my apologies I could have explained better.
Winner
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 23:35
I never said it was bad, I was referring to the hypocrisy of those living in their own properties going on about the need for social housing
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 20:28
You are going to have to be clearer. I don't understand how that is hypocritical at all. There is a waiting list for social housing so there is definitely a 'need' for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:57
I don't need to deny myself water for 2 days to be entitled to hold the belief that people need clean drinking water do I?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:29
my apologies I could have explained better.
If I'm honest I'd rather the government place more focus on housing policy that allows housing to be built at a much greater rate than it is rather than policies that are based on ideology rather than practicality.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 10:02
Whats good news about the poor being told they cant have extra help to further their financial lives and have an asset, an asset that can be passed onto their children, an asset that might hep them get out of the poverty trap. Why is this good news?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 18:34
Helping keep the poor poor is what this is. Oh lets rejoice.
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/facepalm.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 16:55
Plenty of poor people forced to rent in the private sector too, I assume you are in favour of private landlords also honouring this sort of discount? Everyone wins, right?
Imo, the banks, who have been instrumental in screwing this country over, need to start offering people affordable mortgages, at 100% if needs be. Some of the rent that people are forced into paying is hundreds of pounds more than a potential mortgage yet the banks tell people they cant afford the mortgage. Absolute lunacy.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Kiffa
I'm only going on what has happened in the past. RTB schemes did see housing built but it was very small beer compared to the numbers sold off. Even so, any new house built is an increase to the housing stock. What I'm getting at is that the increase is so small that its almost negligible. It may be different this time road and time will tell.
As I've pointed out to eric, the government does provide cheap finance to banks so that they can pass this on to FTBs in the form of cheaper loans. It also seems from what you have posted that history hasn't taught us any lessons. One of the biggest issues with the credit crunch was that people were borrowing far too much money and as s result there was no cushion when a shock came along. Despite what Gordon Brown said, there is no end to boom and bust. We will always have economic cycles and the responsible thing is to ensure that we have sufficient room to manoeuvre when the next recession comes along (and it will).
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 12:18
I never said it was bad, I was referring to the hypocrisy of those living in their own properties going on about the need for social housing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 23:35
You are going to have to be clearer. I don't understand how that is hypocritical at all. There is a waiting list for social housing so there is definitely a 'need' for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 20:28
I don't need to deny myself water for 2 days to be entitled to hold the belief that people need clean drinking water do I?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:57
my apologies I could have explained better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 19:29
I find it disingenuous that those who criticise the RTB policy own their own homes.
So would I.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 12:31
Kiffa
You have to admit, that it seems unfair for a bank to tell somebody that they cannot afford a mortgage of say 600 a month, when they have been paying rent to a landlord for say 2 years of 700 a month. That should be proof enough that they can afford it. I think the banks can and should be doing a lot more to help FTBs. People weren't borrowing too much, you've bought into that a bit there. There's not a great deal of difference between someone borrowing say 200,000 for a house or 220,000. Banks were gambling too much, messing around too much with other peoples money. They should be giving something back.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 12:21
Whats good news about the poor being told they cant have extra help to further their financial lives and have an asset, an asset that can be passed onto their children, an asset that might hep them get out of the poverty trap. Why is this good news?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 10:02
Helping keep the poor poor is what this is. Oh lets rejoice.
http://www.ccmb.co.uk/images/smiley_icons/facepalm.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 18:34
Plenty of poor people forced to rent in the private sector too, I assume you are in favour of private landlords also honouring this sort of discount? Everyone wins, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Mon, 08 June 2015 16:55
If people in social housing do buy the house and then as it should (not how is has) work then a new house is built creating an additional property on social housing meaning that someone who is struggling with private rent could now move into social housing, and in 10 years the process is repeated.
100% mortgages are what caused the problem in the first place, we really do not want to return to that. And mortgages are more affordable than ever, at no point in history, or likely in the future will a mortgage be cheaper than it is now. the rates are the lowest we have ever seen. We could easily be 4% higher than we are now.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 12:43
Kiffa
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 12:31
I'm only going on what has happened in the past. RTB schemes did see housing built but it was very small beer compared to the numbers sold off. Even so, any new house built is an increase to the housing stock. What I'm getting at is that the increase is so small that its almost negligible. It may be different this time road and time will tell.
And it may seem unfair that the affordability tests have got harder, but a mortgage now at £600, will be nearer £1000 when rates go back up in the next 3 years. What is affordable now, could easily ruin you in 3 years when interest rates have gone up 3-4%. In my eyes its sensible to ensure affordability calcs are harsh, as its stops another housing crash.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Kiffa do you realise you want a return to the policies that caused the troubles of the last 6 years?
100% mortgages, little of no affordability checks - that is why we are in this mess. Its unafordable mortages that stated it all, please please please dont let that return again. I like to hope that this crash will be the worst I see in my life, not the new norm.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
There has not been one for one replacement of Council homes sold under the RTB at any point. In the last spike (with an explicit Government promise that every one sold would be replaced) the figure was under 20% replacement. So Council housing stock numbers are falling (as will Housing Association numbers if the Government ever gets to implement its election flagship policy). In many areas there are no Council homes left - they have all gone through RTB or as stock transfers. Where Council homes remain RTB produces greater concentrations of high cost (repairs and management) homes and massive dis-economies of scale for the Council.
That was bound to be the case - the numbers never added up for one for one replacement.
Does it make any difference if the total amount of housing is rising (slightly and massively behind the growth in UK households)? Yes it does. It isn't just a numbers game. There is a steady erosion of affordable and accessible homes, to be replaced by high rent and unaccessible homes as RTB homes leak through into the private rented market.
At some point that results in a rise in the housing benefit bill for everyone - despite many households being excluded by the choice of the landlord.
And who pays for the policy? It is basically a £75-100k subsidy up front to some sitting tenants, and it doesn't come directly from general taxation. If you chase the money the answer is that the remaining Council tenants pay for the majority of the cost of the subsidy to the lucky few. It will also be Council tenants who pay for the Housing Association RTB subsidy if the Government manages to implement the policy.
If as a country we want to increase the supply of affordable housing, and recognise the different needs and abilities of households without a home, there are better ways of doing it than RTB, with its hit on Council tenants through raids on their Housing Revenue Account, and general taxpayers through the boosting of the high rent (and high housing benefit) private rented sector. So congratulations to WAG for following Scotland and doing the right thing!
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dragon wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 12:50
Kiffa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiffa wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 12:43
I'm only going on what has happened in the past. RTB schemes did see housing built but it was very small beer compared to the numbers sold off. Even so, any new house built is an increase to the housing stock. What I'm getting at is that the increase is so small that its almost negligible. It may be different this time road and time will tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Local Boy wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 12:31
As I've pointed out to eric, the government does provide cheap finance to banks so that they can pass this on to FTBs in the form of cheaper loans. It also seems from what you have posted that history hasn't taught us any lessons. One of the biggest issues with the credit crunch was that people were borrowing far too much money and as s result there was no cushion when a shock came along. Despite what Gordon Brown said, there is no end to boom and bust. We will always have economic cycles and the responsible thing is to ensure that we have sufficient room to manoeuvre when the next recession comes along (and it will).
100% mortgages were not the cause of the recession. Wild and reckless banking practices were. The banks could support 100% mortgages again by being more responsible in what that do but prefer to carry on gambling chasing the bigger yields.
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Re: Right To Buy - WAG slash discounts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman wrote on Tue, 09 June 2015 12:32
It is ideological, the Tory party like to transfer things from public to private ownership.
why is it trolling? people are against it not because how it affects supply and demand but because it is a Tory policy creating private ownership. That is a statement of fact.
