Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Although I don't dispute austerity happened, all those decisions were on local councils watches. They made decisions. Cardiff council have more councillors than before for example. Welsh Govt funded 20mph speed limits instead of youth services, etc etc etc.
If you think anything is gonna change you have another thing coming.
Yes it’s all the councils fault and every fecker else's except this rotten Tory government.
I’ve got an idea, national service but for people like you and those that appear to think they lived through World War 2.
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninian opinian
Yes it’s all the councils fault and every fecker else's except this rotten Tory government.
I’ve got an idea, national service but for people like you and those that appear to think they lived through World War 2.
You've just completely ignored the points I've made. Local councils have made spending decisions. The council have not prioritised youth services and the WG am certainly haven't.
So yes, it is partly their fault. Your attitude lets them get away with it.
It's at a local level where this stuff is spent
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
You've just completely ignored the points I've made. Local councils have made spending decisions. The council have not prioritised youth services and the WG am certainly haven't.
So yes, it is partly their fault. Your attitude lets them get away with it.
It's at a local level where this stuff is spent
My attitude, have you been on the bottle? It’s now my fault and I’ve let them get away with it. You’re as stark raving bonkers as your hero Sunak.
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninian opinian
My attitude, have you been on the bottle? It’s now my fault and I’ve let them get away with it. You’re as stark raving bonkers as your hero Sunak.
Well yeah. Maybe you should scrutinise what local councils and the WG spend on things and then maybe they would spend it better. They say "look at Westminster" partly to cover their own back. Down fall for it.
Austerity happened because no one would lend the UK or anyone else money without it. It was shit, it went on too long but it had to happen.
Look at canals in Churchill way, additional councillors, bike lanes, 20mph and then ask how many youth services that would fund.
Answer? A shit load.
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Well yeah. Maybe you should scrutinise what local councils and the WG spend on things and then maybe they would spend it better. They say "look at Westminster" partly to cover their own back. Down fall for it.
Austerity happened because no one would lend the UK or anyone else money without it. It was shit, it went on too long but it had to happen.
Look at canals in Churchill way, additional councillors, bike lanes, 20mph and then ask how many youth services that would fund.
Answer? A shit load.
Cause your Tory boys haven’t spaffed billions up the wall have they? Austerity was a con and your attitude let them get away with it :biggrin:
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninian opinian
Cause your Tory boys haven’t spaffed billions up the wall have they? Austerity was a con and your attitude let them get away with it :biggrin:
Zzzz.
Yet again, completely ignoring what I said or any responsibility for those actually responsible for youth services.
So yes, your approach is part of the reason they get away with it.
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
You've just completely ignored the points I've made. Local councils have made spending decisions. The council have not prioritised youth services and the WG am certainly haven't.
So yes, it is partly their fault. Your attitude lets them get away with it.
It's at a local level where this stuff is spent
Wales may be slightly different from the rest of the UK - but I doubt it.
Like any Tory red top you can pick out a few spending decisions by Councils at the margin and claim' Gotcha!' but the fact remains that government funding of Councils was cut by over 50% between 2010 (the start of the Cameron-Osbourne Austerity Cult) and 2021, and overall Council budgets were cut in real terms by 26% over that time.
The budget crisis for Councils deepened after 2021 leading to more section 114 notices (effectively saying they are bust) by Councils of both main parties. The only slight relief was the Gove budget announcement at the end of last year claiming a £64bn funding package for this year - a 7.5% increase.
In that time the cost and pressure of core services has risen much higher than inflation. Most Councils have little or no discretionary spending power left. They put the vast majority of their reduced and inadequate budgets into Homelessness and Adult Social Care. They can't afford to do anything else - and they can't do that properly.
Sure the odd pothole gets filled, a planning application is processed or a cycle lane or two is marked out - but that is so marginal to the big picture that to focus on that is pure deflection.
Re: Bring back National Service...
Services that saw spending reductions between 2010/11 and 2019/20 include:
Cultural and related services (–36.8%)
Planning and development services (–35.7%)
Non-schools education (–31.6%)
Housing services (general fund revenue account only) (–25.7%)
Highways and transport services (–23.6%)
Central services (–16.4%)
Environmental and regulatory services (–10.5%)
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/l...nd%202020%2F21.
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
Wales may be slightly different from the rest of the UK - but I doubt it.
Like any Tory red top you can pick out a few spending decisions by Councils at the margin and claim' Gotcha!' but the fact remains that government funding of Councils was cut by over 50% between 2010 (the start of the Cameron-Osbourne Austerity Cult) and 2021, and overall Council budgets were cut in real terms by 26% over that time.
The budget crisis for Councils deepened after 2021 leading to more section 114 notices (effectively saying they are bust) by Councils of both main parties. The only slight relief was the Gove budget announcement at the end of last year claiming a £64bn funding package for this year - a 7.5% increase.
In that time the cost and pressure of core services has risen much higher than inflation. Most Councils have little or no discretionary spending power left. They put the vast majority of their reduced and inadequate budgets into Homelessness and Adult Social Care. They can't afford to do anything else - and they can't do that properly.
Sure the odd pothole gets filled, a planning application is processed or a cycle lane or two is marked out - but that is so marginal to the big picture that to focus on that is pure deflection.
There's plenty of money still sloshing around. Not as much as everyone would like but that's been the case since the global financial crisis.
The point is, youth services is determined locally. If they are using money to have extra councillors or bike lanes or uncovering canals or 20mph roads that most don't want, that is worthy of scrutiny. Just saying "bLaMe ThE TOriEs" doesn't cut it. It gets you the services you deserve if you don't scrutinize local and devolved govt too.
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
There's plenty of money still sloshing around. Not as much as everyone would like but that's been the case since the global financial crisis.
The point is, youth services is determined locally. If they are using money to have extra councillors or bike lanes or uncovering canals or 20mph roads that most don't want, that is worthy of scrutiny. Just saying "bLaMe ThE TOriEs" doesn't cut it. It gets you the services you deserve if you don't scrutinize local and devolved govt too.
Yes it does
It's the Tories who have cut local services to the bone
The local authorities have had to implement huge hacking right the board
The services that local areas get are on the whole determined by the funding from central government
And your lot are responsible for slashing that
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
There's plenty of money still sloshing around. Not as much as everyone would like but that's been the case since the global financial crisis.
The point is, youth services is determined locally. If they are using money to have extra councillors or bike lanes or uncovering canals or 20mph roads that most don't want, that is worthy of scrutiny. Just saying "bLaMe ThE TOriEs" doesn't cut it. It gets you the services you deserve if you don't scrutinize local and devolved govt too.
It’s taken you over forty eight hours, but you’ve finally come up with a way to blame the WAG and local Labour councils for the Tory’s national service scheme :hehe:
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Well yeah. Maybe you should scrutinise what local councils and the WG spend on things and then maybe they would spend it better. They say "look at Westminster" partly to cover their own back. Down fall for it.
Austerity happened because no one would lend the UK or anyone else money without it. It was shit, it went on too long but it had to happen.
Look at canals in Churchill way, additional councillors, bike lanes, 20mph and then ask how many youth services that would fund.
Answer? A shit load.
Good observation James.
Its a pity the Tories then, over the last 14 years didn't ring fence money for youth services to the tune of around lets say £2.5 billion a year?
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Rebecca Pow, mentioned in that article is my local MP. She was laughable on the hustings trail, took credit regarding a major decision made by the MoD in Taunton and that she had absolutely no hand in and toadies to every single party policy in a very obsequious way.
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Well yeah. Maybe you should scrutinise what local councils and the WG spend on things and then maybe they would spend it better. They say "look at Westminster" partly to cover their own back. Down fall for it.
Austerity happened because no one would lend the UK or anyone else money without it. It was shit, it went on too long but it had to happen.
Look at canals in Churchill way, additional councillors, bike lanes, 20mph and then ask how many youth services that would fund.
Answer? A shit load.
This argument is ever so slightly undermined by the fact that nearly every council is scrambling around hopelessly trying to balance the books. You are always banging on about how recent UK government performance has more to do with external shocks than their own incompetence but mysteriously the same doesn't apply to local government.
Jon has explained it better than I can, but in short, councils have some things they are legally obliged to provide, when budget goes down, these things don't = no money. It's pretty simple and being seen across the country.
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
This argument is ever so slightly undermined by the fact that nearly every council is scrambling around hopelessly trying to balance the books. You are always banging on about how recent UK government performance has more to do with external shocks than their own incompetence but mysteriously the same doesn't apply to local government.
Jon has explained it better than I can, but in short, councils have some things they are legally obliged to provide, when budget goes down, these things don't = no money. It's pretty simple and being seen across the country.
I'm not saying the government are not part of it. They are. Austerity is. Austerity happened because we suddenly were spending far more than we took in tax and without austerity no one would lend to us
If you got in financial difficulty and asked for a loan, no one will lend it to you without faith you can pay it back. Same here.
Austerity did go on too long in my opinion. UK govt to blame for that.
Local councils and devolved govts do determine what they spend money on. Some is statutory (like schools, certain care etc) some isn't. People absolutely *should* scrutinise what they spend their non statutory spending on, and it absolutely is their choice to decide to spend it on extra politicians, uncovering canals, cycle lanes, 20mph zones etc.
That is a choice. Maybe the right one, maybe the wrong one, but that's a local decision and they should be held to account for it.
Just blaming Westminster doesn't cut it, and it doesn't bring back youth services. If I'm honest I think it let's some of the hook and makes those services less likely to come back.
Partly Westminster's fault, partly WG, partly councils. That's my point. What gets my goat is this infuriating "blame Westminster" culture that completely bypasses the actual decision makers and totally lets them off the hook. It's one of the reasons I think public services are generally worse here than in England.
My general opinion is that young people have been completely fkd over by them all tbh. Not least in terms of mental health, access to affordable housing and now access to expertise and socialisation in the work place through in person learning.
I fear there is a storm coming when many young people hit their 30s and other life pressures emerge.
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
I'm not saying the government are not part of it. They are. Austerity is. Austerity happened because we suddenly were spending far more than we took in tax and without austerity no one would lend to us
If you got in financial difficulty and asked for a loan, no one will lend it to you without faith you can pay it back. Same here.
Austerity did go on too long in my opinion. UK govt to blame for that.
Local councils and devolved govts do determine what they spend money on. Some is statutory (like schools, certain care etc) some isn't. People absolutely *should* scrutinise what they spend their non statutory spending on, and it absolutely is their choice to decide to spend it on extra politicians, uncovering canals, cycle lanes, 20mph zones etc.
That is a choice. Maybe the right one, maybe the wrong one, but that's a local decision and they should be held to account for it.
Just blaming Westminster doesn't cut it, and it doesn't bring back youth services. If I'm honest I think it let's some of the hook and makes those services less likely to come back.
Partly Westminster's fault, partly WG, partly councils. That's my point. What gets my goat is this infuriating "blame Westminster" culture that completely bypasses the actual decision makers and totally lets them off the hook. It's one of the reasons I think public services are generally worse here than in England.
My general opinion is that young people have been completely fkd over by them all tbh. Not least in terms of mental health, access to affordable housing and now access to expertise and socialisation in the work place through in person learning.
I fear there is a storm coming when many young people hit their 30s and other life pressures emerge.
When it comes to the subject of this thread, I agree that it’s not down to Westminster, it’s down to the ludicrous Conservative party that you defend on here as a matter of course. In January they were dissing some high up in the forces who suggested there should be a return to National Service, last week they were still against it in their reply to a Parliamentary question, then two or three days later it was a flagship election policy! Since then, we been told it would be a voluntary scheme and then a compulsory one and then no one would be jailed for refusing a call up for National Service and then that they would- you going off at a tangent trying to blame the Welsh Government and local councils is completely missing that obvious point.
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
You've just completely ignored the points I've made. Local councils have made spending decisions. The council have not prioritised youth services and the WG am certainly haven't.
So yes, it is partly their fault. Your attitude lets them get away with it.
It's at a local level where this stuff is spent
local government budgets fell by 26% between 2010 and 2020 and in real terms comparisons it is more than 50%
Re: Bring back National Service...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
When it comes to the subject of this thread, I agree that it’s not down to Westminster, it’s down to the ludicrous Conservative party that you defend on here as a matter of course. In January they were dissing some high up in the forces who suggested there should be a return to National Service, last week they were still against it in their reply to a Parliamentary question, then two or three days later it was a flagship election policy! Since then, we been told it would be a voluntary scheme and then a compulsory one and then no one would be jailed for refusing a call up for National Service and then that they would- you going off at a tangent trying to blame the Welsh Government and local councils is completely missing that obvious point.
And yet my only mention of the Conservative party is to criticise them for prolonged austerity..
Why must you view things in binary terms, where the only problem for complex, multifaceted things is a change of government? We will learn within a fairly short period of time that that isn't the case.
There are many causes, but to ignore the decisions made at a devolved and local level is disengenous. As would be ignoring the financial background nationally. I don't dispute that, but I'm saying decisions made locally and at a devolved matter count too.
