Kneecap

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I have never been to a Kneecap gig, but my wild guess is that none of the thousands who went to see them at the Wide Awake Festival were surprised or put off by the political content of their performance.

It is also my wild guess that many - if not most - went because they wanted to listen to that political content. It is surely what Kneecap are about?

If you want to avoid politics in music, don't watch or listen to political bands. Artists should stick to what they want to do and say - not play safe.

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Kneecap are Irish republicans, and promote that ideology, as well as the furtherance of the Irish language, amongst other things. I'd be surprised if anyone in attendance were there for that.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

What are you going on about now?

I have no issue with bands making political statements through their music. I cant abide artists who use their live gigs to spout their political ideology. I'm there for the music, keep your opinions to yourself.

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I might be stating the obvious, but who are you to determine where he keeps his opinions?

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Originally Posted by cyril evans awaydays

I might be stating the obvious, but who are you to determine where he keeps his opinions?

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I think he's saying he prefers it when bands keep their political opinions to themselves and focus on the music, as opposed to saying they have no right to voice what they like. But I may be wrong.

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think he's saying he prefers it when bands keep their political opinions to themselves and focus on the music, as opposed to saying they have no right to voice what they like. But I may be wrong.

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Correct. If I wanted a political speech I'd go to a rally.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

Correct. If I wanted a political speech I'd go to a rally.

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I'm guessing that a fair few of the people who were there to see Kneecap would have been aware of what they're about, especially with todays technology and information. They're quite a radical band even before the politics kick in, and there's a few visual signs that may lead a person to believe that there may be some kind of message attached, like the balaclava, the Tricoulour, and the lyrics........ If a person aint getting it within the first 30 seconds of play, then they must be either daft of big Stone Roses fans........ :hehe: :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by HiVis

Correct. If I wanted a political speech I'd go to a rally.

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You sound like those Republicans who thought Rage Against the Machine were conservative and then don't want them to be political when they find out the reality :hehe:

But I get your point of view, it must be exhausting being conservative and getting called out for your abhorrent views when socialising.

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Originally Posted by Doucas

You sound like those Republicans who thought Rage Against the Machine were conservative and then don't want them to be political when they find out the reality :hehe:

But I get your point of view, it must be exhausting being conservative and getting called out for your abhorrent views when socialising.

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I think the abhorrent views in this thread refer to calling for the killing of MPs, and shouting and waving support for banned terrorist groups.. Suddenly everyone has become free speech warriors!👍

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think the abhorrent views in this thread refer to calling for the killing of MPs, and shouting and waving support for banned terrorist groups.. Suddenly everyone has become free speech warriors!👍

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Who's view has supported the call to kill MP's and shouting and waving support of terrorist groups?

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Originally Posted by JamesWales

I think the abhorrent views in this thread refer to calling for the killing of MPs, and shouting and waving support for banned terrorist groups.. Suddenly everyone has become free speech warriors!��

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That word means nothing.

Nelson Mandela was on the US terrorist watchlist until 2013.

Ghandi was called a terrorist as was Martin Luther King.

Palestinian civilians are called terrorists to this day.

It's a buzzword to smear people for simpletons to lose their minds about.

How many innocent people did the British kill in Iraq? Weird how we weren't called terrorists.

You support policies that have lead to the biggest decrease in living standards in living memory, was it a remainer who killed a MP in 2016? So yeah your lot are abhorrent.

Hope the part time parenting is going well.

C ya James.

:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Doucas

That word means nothing.

Nelson Mandela was on the US terrorist watchlist until 2013.

Ghandi was called a terrorist as was Martin Luther King.

Palestinian civilians are called terrorists to this day.

It's a buzzword to smear people for simpletons to lose their minds about.

How many innocent people did the British kill in Iraq? Weird how we weren't called terrorists.

You support policies that have lead to the biggest decrease in living standards in living memory, was it a remainer who killed a MP in 2016? So yeah your lot are abhorrent.

Hope the part time parenting is going well.

C ya James.

:thumbup:

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Wow, you read somethings on here, and then you read that confused mess.

What an absolute wnker.

Imagine picking the defence of Islamic extremism as your hill to die on.

Suddenly I doubt HiViz minds being labeled abhorrent by you at all.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Who's view has supported the call to kill MP's and shouting and waving support of terrorist groups?

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keep up at the back

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Originally Posted by Doucas

You sound like those Republicans who thought Rage Against the Machine were conservative and then don't want them to be political when they find out the reality :hehe:

But I get your point of view, it must be exhausting being conservative and getting called out for your abhorrent views when socialising.

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I have neither the time, or the crayons needed, to argue with you. You're perpetually angry, try having a wank, it works for sludge

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Originally Posted by HiVis

keep up at the back

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I was reading his message as posters on here endorsing those views. As in 'Views in this thread' which i'm sure no member of Kneecap is contributing towards. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

I was reading his message as posters on here endorsing those views. As in 'Views in this thread' which i'm sure no member of Kneecap is contributing towards. :thumbup:

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please accept my apologies for not understanding the reference point of "Who's view...."

I'm sure you'll accept you did not make it clear you mentioned the view of those posting in this thread. But just to be clear, Jon1959 and Doucas are pretty open in their support of Kneecap and their ill-judged diatribes.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

please accept my apologies for not understanding the reference point of "Who's view...."

I'm sure you'll accept you did not make it clear you mentioned the view of those posting in this thread. But just to be clear, Jon1959 and Doucas are pretty open in their support of Kneecap and their ill-judged diatribes.

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Well, if he says 'Views in this thread' then i'm obviously referencing the views of those who have posted in this thread, although you're right, my Grammar (as i often the case) was shit, so i take my portion :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by HiVis

please accept my apologies for not understanding the reference point of "Who's view...."

I'm sure you'll accept you did not make it clear you mentioned the view of those posting in this thread. But just to be clear, Jon1959 and Doucas are pretty open in their support of Kneecap and their ill-judged diatribes.

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It's very clear who Tuerto was talking about, he quoted a post saying it was views in this thread.

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Originally Posted by lardy

It's very clear who Tuerto was talking about, he quoted a post saying it was views in this thread.

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Cheers Lardy :thumbup: When i write something on here then read it back, it looks ok. Then i return to the thread a day or so later, read it again, and it's shocking, complete Alphabet soup :hehe: I've always admired those with the ability to write well and get their message across :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by lardy

It's very clear who Tuerto was talking about, he quoted a post saying it was views in this thread.

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Fine. Having re-read what Tuerto wrote I can see it could be interpreted that way.

However, given kneecap are openly advocating killing politicians, as well as showing support for proscribed terrorist organisations, my pointnstill stands. The likes of Doucas and Jon1959 are openly supporting this bollocks, which is reprehensible. A pair of self righteous *****, the pair of them.

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Originally Posted by Tuerto

Cheers Lardy :thumbup: When i write something on here then read it back, it looks ok. Then i return to the thread a day or so later, read it again, and it's shocking, complete Alphabet soup :hehe: I've always admired those with the ability to write well and get their message across :thumbup:

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thanks mate

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Originally Posted by delmbox

thanks mate

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I blamed myself when you were on your sabbatical..

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Originally Posted by HiVis

I'm sure you'll accept you did not make it clear you mentioned the view of those posting in this thread. But just to be clear, Jon1959 and Doucas are pretty open in their support of Kneecap and their ill-judged diatribes.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

However, given kneecap are openly advocating killing politicians, as well as showing support for proscribed terrorist organisations, my pointnstill stands. The likes of Doucas and Jon1959 are openly supporting this bollocks, which is reprehensible. A pair of self righteous *****, the pair of them.

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Strange, I thought I had called some of Kneecap's onstage comments 'crass and wrong' - particularly the 'kill your MP' one. I haven't commented on the Hezbollah flag, although I think it was a stupid thing to do - just for provocation. I have no time for 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' regardless of who they are bollocks - or for gestures that imply that.

(But proscription of 'terrorist organisations' is a political decision unrelated to threat or how reactionary or violent those organisations might be. The history of the staged proscription of Hamas shows that clearly. The UK government has ended up with a position that could make large swathes of the Gazan population 'legitimate' targets for Israeli mass murder - the 'Hamas doctors, journalists, sewage workers, police and accountants' and that is obscene.)

I do though agree with their stance on Palestine and think it is a warped world where one of them is charged with 'terror offences' when child murderers, torturers, ethnic cleansers, butchers of doctors, nurses and journalists, fascist apartheid promoters and their enablers in the US, UK, Germany and elsewhere walk free. If that makes me a self righteous **** in your eyes, then I'll wear that badge with pride.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I do though agree with their stance on Palestine and think it is a warped world where one of them is charged with 'terror offences' when child murderers, torturers, ethnic cleansers, butchers of doctors, nurses and journalists, fascist apartheid promoters and their enablers in the US, UK, Germany and elsewhere walk free. If that makes me a self righteous **** in your eyes, then I'll wear that badge with pride.

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The kneecap stance on Palestine isn't just that Israel's response has now gone way beyond what would be deemed to be proportionate, but that the state of Israel should not exist, and that terrorist organisations such as Hamas and Hezbollah are legitimate. Your open support of said terrorists is noted.

By the way, it it very easy to denounce Israel for their actions, and to also denounce Hamas etc at the same time. Its a warped world indeed where you believe the two are mutually exclusive.

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Originally Posted by HiVis

The kneecap stance on Palestine isn't just that Israel's response has now gone way beyond what would be deemed to be proportionate, but that the state of Israel should not exist, and that terrorist organisations such as Hamas and Hezbollah are legitimate. Your open support of said terrorists is noted.

By the way, it it very easy to denounce Israel for their actions, and to also denounce Hamas etc at the same time. Its a warped world indeed where you believe the two are mutually exclusive.

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You seem to have studied the words and thoughts of Kneecap more than me. It is not my specialist subject. But their headline stance of support for Palestinians and for a free and viable Palestine matches my view.

I also agree with them that the situation in Israel/Palestine did not start on 7 October 2023 - but goes back to at least the founding of the State of Israel in 1948 through terror, murder and the ethnic cleansing of over 700,000 Palestinians forced into refugee camps and never allowed to return.

The current form of the State of Israel - based on apartheid, settler-colonialism, systematic discrimination and white Jewish supremacy - is not one I support. I don't want to see a Zionist state. I don't want to see an Islamic state. I want to see a single democratic state with equal right for all citizens. I thought you were arguing for that too many years ago on this board? The compromise of a Two State solution is not viable without dismantling the Israeli expansion and land grabs since 1967. I think a single democratic state has become the more viable objective given the facts on the ground. That would mean a state of Israel/Palestine that was a safe home for both Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs. To get to that the current form of the State of Israel would have to not exist. That is the growing demand of large parts of Palestinian civil society and the diaspora, and also of a minority of Israeli Jews who have rejected the Zionist project.

I have denounced the Hamas atrocities in October 2023, and the Hamas repression in Gaza, many times. I haven't noticed you coming out against genocide, though. Maybe when you have finished noting 'your open support of said terrorists' (whatever you think that means) you will get around to it. But I won't hold my breath!

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Originally Posted by jon1959

The current form of the State of Israel - based on apartheid, settler-colonialism, systematic discrimination and white Jewish supremacy - is not one I support. I don't want to see a Zionist state. I don't want to see an Islamic state. I want to see a single democratic state with equal right for all citizens. I thought you were arguing for that too many years ago on this board?

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I was, and i still think it is the best solution.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

I haven't noticed you coming out against genocide, though.

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It is genocide, and its appalling. Israel's response has moved far beyond being proportionate to the October 2023 attacks.

Another comment on proscription: Hamas's military wing was proscribed by the UK government in 2001. The whole of Hamas (that is the whole civil structure that was embedded in Gaza and provided administrative, policing, financial, sewerage/water/power jobs) was not proscribed until 2021.

What changed between 2001 and 2021?

One thing that changed was that Priti Patel became Home Secretary after being forced to resign in 2017 for running a private foreign policy that involved secret meetings in Israel with the Netanyahu government.

Call me cynical but I believe that the decision in 2021 to proscribe the whole of Hamas (and labelling everyone associated with them in any way as terrorist) was done at the request of Benjamin Netanyahu, not because some objective assessment had changed.

But it enables Netanyahu to label doctors and journalists as terrorists, and for you to be a little echo of that! Thankfully the majority of the world refuses to go down that route.