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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Not much difference is there ?
Point being that he's implying that Jews aren't English - perhaps more correctly revealing his own subconscious attitude towards Jews.
Look, he's a nutter and an idiot, we know that , and he probably meant no harm, but to me the worrying thing is that some people - even here - want to justify it instead of saying " hey, that's a bit out of order Corby !"
This is how it can start you see. They're so fanatical about their tribal politics that their defence of their "leader " is more important than rational thinking or human decency , and before we know where we are it's a serious problem.
Well you said he described all Jews as not understanding British culture and values, he wasnt describing all British Jews and he wasn't referring to all culture and values. But other than that, I guess it is exactly the same :rolleyes:
What you are doing (extreme reading between the lines to imply what other people are thinking) is no different to people saying anybody against free movement is a racist.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Well, you may say that Eric, and you may quote a liberal Rabbi, but the test will be how Jews vote.
That will be real, not just an idea. It's one thing to argue the toss on a message board and it's another to convince Jewish people they're wrong to be suspicious of labour or persuade them to vote for what many of them see as a very racist party which I must tell you many of them privately compare with the Nazis in their early stages.
You wonder why they migrate to Israel with their assets after they've seen one holocaust justified by what they ( rightly or wrongly) regard as German socialists and then you wonder why they defend themselves fiercely when another group who openly say they'd like to kill all Jews attack them there. Well, I don't wonder.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Well, you may say that Eric, and you may quote a liberal Rabbi, but the test will be how Jews vote.
That will be real, not just an idea. It's one thing to argue the toss on a message board and it's another to convince Jewish people they're wrong to be suspicious of labour or persuade them to vote for what many of them see as a very racist party which I must tell you many of them privately compare with the Nazis in their early stages.
You wonder why they migrate to Israel with their assets after they've seen one holocaust justified by what they ( rightly or wrongly) regard as German socialists and then you wonder why they defend themselves fiercely when another group who openly say they'd like to kill all Jews attack them there. Well, I don't wonder.
See, now you are trying to guess what I think. You aren't very good at it, just stop.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Well, you may say that Eric, and you may quote a liberal Rabbi, but the test will be how Jews vote.
That will be real, not just an idea. It's one thing to argue the toss on a message board and it's another to convince Jewish people they're wrong to be suspicious of labour or persuade them to vote for what many of them see as a very racist party which I must tell you many of them privately compare with the Nazis in their early stages.
You wonder why they migrate to Israel with their assets after they've seen one holocaust justified by what they ( rightly or wrongly) regard as German socialists and then you wonder why they defend themselves fiercely when another group who openly say they'd like to kill all Jews attack them there. Well, I don't wonder.
As a Jewish person how will you vote Phil?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
What LOM said is true, but is it a reason to hate Jews if they're successful ?
Everyone is successful in their own way. What us socialists object to is the iniquity of unequal wealth distribution, status and power.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Heisenberg
You've just said "the Jew" an incredible amount of times to describe the Jewish community. Once again, referring to Jews (plural) as "the Jew" is widely regarded to be anti-Semitic. It's how Hitler referred to them to dehumanise them.
Are you sure that you're not anti-Semitic LoM? You've stated that Jews living in New York have lots of money and influence (what's known as 'Economic Anti-Semitism') and now you're calling the Jewish community "The Jew".
Maybe the EHRC should investigate you?
Perhaps my grammar was mius placed (but hey I guess you know that ,so good point score )
Your repy sums it up really no real concern just make some barbed personal comnent .
Its pityful and shameful this is going on in a major political party , being in denial is very tough or are they .
You might want to study some of the EHRC cases and why they take them up , you will discover they dont do it lightly or without just cause.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
See, now you are trying to guess what I think. You aren't very good at it, just stop.
What did I say that suggested what you thought ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Everyone is successful in their own way. What us socialists object to is the iniquity of unequal wealth distribution, status and power.
If you're any good and you work hard you'll do okay. You've just admitted that you're jealous of success , so maybe you should have made more effort. If success is one of the reasons for your feelings toward Jews maybe you should consider that the treatment they've received is hardly privileged.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
What did I say that suggested what you thought ?
To clarify that Eric, you're the one lefty here that I think definitely isn't an anti Semite , so I hope I didn't give the impression that I included you with those who've shown their true colours as bigots.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
What did I say that suggested what you thought ?
This bit
Quote:
You wonder why they migrate to Israel with their assets after they've seen one holocaust justified by what they ( rightly or wrongly) regard as German socialists and then you wonder why they defend themselves fiercely when another group who openly say they'd like to kill all Jews attack them there. Well, I don't wonder.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
This bit
Ronnie has a point , if I was an Israeli citizen knowing everyone around me dislikes me or what I am , and what our forebears were and suffered so for centries ,I think I'd be a hard nosed bastard .
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
If you're any good and you work hard you'll do okay. You've just admitted that you're jealous of success , so maybe you should have made more effort. If success is one of the reasons for your feelings toward Jews maybe you should consider that the treatment they've received is hardly privileged.
Where have I admitted I'm jealous Philip? I'm nothing of the sort and I'm very happy with the effort I've put in over the years thank you. Those magic mushrooms of yours must be very potent.
I've never ever met anyone who's worked hard and been ok; I've only seen really hard working, brave people like miners putting in 7 day a week slogs in grim conditions penniless and broken in their later years. However, I've also seen plenty of people who have made relative fortunes not through their own industry but through the hard work of exploited others.
Jews have been castigated throughout history and for many different reasons and there's no doubting they have often been treated very harshly yet, as I note that you have conveniently sidestepped my question on the Armenian genocide, there are countless other ethnicities and socio -religious groupings around the world which have been treated equally as badly but they don't get the same platform to appeal their cause as Jewish people do because they don't have powerful friends to support them
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Only in your mind do all Jews have powerful friends to support them. Only in your mind is the extermination of six million human beings called " being treated harshly". Only in your mind were there "various reasons " for the persecutions.
I've rarely met anyone who does well without working hard, and only in your mind are hard working successful people depriving you of some entitlement to steal the food from their children's mouths.
That's your beef with Jews isn't it ? You think all Jews are rich and intelligent so you envy them and you want to punish them for your own failings.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
Only in your mind do all Jews have powerful friends to support them. Only in your mind is the extermination of six million human beings called " being treated harshly". Only in your mind were there "various reasons " for the persecutions.
I've rarely met anyone who does well without working hard, and only in your mind are hard working successful people depriving you of some entitlement to steal the food from their children's mouths.
That's your beef with Jews isn't it ? You think all Jews are rich and intelligent so you envy them and you want to punish them for your own failings.
I think your inarticulate ramblings just show up your general ignorance and personal demons Philip
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RonnieBird
I didn't at any point think Corbyn said that. You posted it and it clearly referred to Nigel Farage.
I said I'll look into it because I want to see who these people are who have objected and why. I'm already aware of the many organisations and individuals who've objected to Corbyn.
We're on to circumcision now are we ?
Is this what you know of Jewish people ?
Again, why should I be surprised that the people here who gang up on minorities to silence opinion are the same ones who are happy to gang up on Jews ?
So now you add blatant lying to racist trolling? No wonder so many good posters put you on ignore. Pathetic and shameful!
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Two who've been unmasked trying to divert by unsubstantiated nasty insults.
It's as simple as that !
Fatetur facinus qui judicium fugit
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Someone's been busy googling Black's Law Dictionary lol
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Again insults not arguments !
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
I note that some love to stick to the magic 6 million figure hereabout in spite of the fact that the 1945 Soviet guesstimates of 4 million deaths at the Auschwitz labour camp being revised down to 1 million and Majdanek's original 1.5 million dropping to 78k. Alternatively the Soviets were accurate and the Polish government are anti-Semites.
The Red Cross' grand total for deaths at German labour camps was 271k. It's a wonder some European governments don't attempt to prosecute them for Holohoax, er, Holocaust denial.
https://12bytes.org/wp-content/uploa...ust-Deaths.jpg
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
I note that some love to stick to the magic 6 million figure hereabout in spite of the fact that the 1945 Soviet guesstimates of 4 million deaths at the Auschwitz labour camp being revised down to 1 million and Majdanek's original 1.5 million dropping to 78k. Alternatively the Soviets were accurate and the Polish government are anti-Semites.
The Red Cross' grand total for deaths at German labour camps was 271k. It's a wonder some European governments don't attempt to prosecute them for Holohoax, er, Holocaust denial.
https://12bytes.org/wp-content/uploa...ust-Deaths.jpg
These are things which people should be free to discuss and I've never agreed with this idea of "holocaust denial" being banned because it impinges freedom of speech and might give the impression there's something to hide.
I still think this,although when I witness the thinly veiled bloodlust by some here, ( not you), I can at least understand why people react by trying to silence such a dangerous philosophy.
Who knows the real numbers, but it was certainly a very bad thing which we don't want to let happen again.
I'd have my own comments about the matter but I'm not going to post them here because there are one or two who would attempt to use any small historical error to justify their race hate.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Organ Morgan.
I note that some love to stick to the magic 6 million figure hereabout in spite of the fact that the 1945 Soviet guesstimates of 4 million deaths at the Auschwitz labour camp being revised down to 1 million and Majdanek's original 1.5 million dropping to 78k. Alternatively the Soviets were accurate and the Polish government are anti-Semites.
The Red Cross' grand total for deaths at German labour camps was 271k. It's a wonder some European governments don't attempt to prosecute them for Holohoax, er, Holocaust denial.
https://12bytes.org/wp-content/uploa...ust-Deaths.jpg
I think one death in a gas oven, and knowing that one death is too many .
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/s...-labo-1.490891
https://www.timesofisrael.com/polls-...te-for-labour/
Here are a couple of articles to show exactly how serious the problem is for labour .
Apparently 93% of Jews won't vote labour , and if anyone's read the comments by two posters here ,I expect the remaining 7% might be reconsidering
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Official statistics estimate there to be under 300000 Jewish people living in England and Wales, that equates to about .53% of the population.
Given that possibly a third of those are children, not all will refuse to vote Labour and that the vast majority are concentrated in a select few Tory leaning constituencies, will it make any material difference to the overall result of the election if these people choose not to vote Labour?
Also, given that the overwhelming majority live in these Tory leaning constituencies then for tactical reasons it will probably help the cause immensely if they vote Lib Dem, assuming that as previous Labour voters they would baulk at voting Tory.
Hooray we might be able to get rid of this dreadful Government at last.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Ronnie, what is your opinion on Islamophobia amongst those parties that support Brexit most strongly?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Well in general Eric I'm not a fan of chasing people about perceived racism, but anti semitism is a special case because those who do it can take it to another level very quickly. There's a big difference between regular racism and something which draws its devotees to genocide.
I don't know much about islamophobia , but the name suggests being against a religion rather than a race. Just noticed that you associate it with Brexit , but I don't know why.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Official statistics estimate there to be under 300000 Jewish people living in England and Wales, that equates to about .53% of the population.
Given that possibly a third of those are children, not all will refuse to vote Labour and that the vast majority are concentrated in a select few Tory leaning constituencies, will it make any material difference to the overall result of the election if these people choose not to vote Labour?
Also, given that the overwhelming majority live in these Tory leaning constituencies then for tactical reasons it will probably help the cause immensely if they vote Lib Dem, assuming that as previous Labour voters they would baulk at voting Tory.
Hooray we might be able to get rid of this dreadful Government at last.
Interesting that you've been studying the demographics and keeping a list of where Jews live.
I think the point is that most decent people of all religions and cultures will refuse to support the marginalisation of Jews. Perhaps I am wrong - it happened in Germany - but I hope Britain is different in this respect
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
RonnieB... You don't half spout a large amount of shite, don't you?
Making out that you didn't think Corbyn made those comments event though you referred to him (and other comments he has previously made) throughout your response.
You also have the audacity to accuse others of being racist and anti-Semitic to divert attention away from yourself. The only anti-Semitic language used on this board recently had been by life on mars - but he gets a pass from you because he's in your "gang".
Didn't you previously say that using the "racism" card was all people could use when losing an argument. Maybe you were thinking of yourself there and projecting it onto others.
I've now been accused by you of being anti-Semitic with no evidence (it's beyond laughable to accuse me of any form of racism) and by another poster of being a rapist apologist. Both times it's because of you digging yourselves into a hole and can't debate your way out of it.
You don't like to be challenged and accuse others of trying to "silence" you when it happens. Very typical of a few posters on here.
I used to find your lack of self-awareness funny, to be honest, but you've crossed a line now like the other poster did. I blocked him and now I'm blocking you. It's simply impossible to engage with someone as lost as you are and there's no enjoyment to gain from mocking you anymore.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Ronnie I have been through this argument I'd leave it , the arguments and reasons are well known ,the investigations are proving that at least the old defense arguments , are changing from the old days of ""ooooh its just old disgruntled Blairites kicking off "". :hehe:
I'm sure there is Islamophobia with parties including the Tories we know Ironically it exists it quite a few some Labour Brextiers and in society .
The differences between two parties , Labour has admitted it exists in its deputy , and has said it need to be dealt with ,staff members at there HQ have been TV interviewed , the police and
EHRC are independently Investigating it .
That's all one can say really ,ones opinions have been superseded by actual events and facts all under investigation.
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Heisenberg.........
No, I referred to Corbyns comments from the outset. You then posted something about Nigel Farage saying something else. The two were never confused and if you think I said I didn't know Corbyn made the original comment I suggest that you read over it.
Similarly, it wasn't you I was referring to as being anti Semitic but if the cap fits wear it I suppose.
I often had to advise clients not to deny things until they'd been accused of them because it's a bit of a giveaway isn't it ?
You haven't really blocked me of course, but you can't really answer any of that now without showing out. Not very bright is it ?
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Re: Jewish group walks away from Labour
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Ronnie I have been through this argument I'd leave it , the arguments and reasons are well known ,the investigations are proving that at least the old defense arguments , are changing from the old days of ""ooooh its just old disgruntled Blairites kicking off "". :hehe:
I'm sure there is Islamophobia with parties including the Tories we know Ironically it exists it quite a few some Labour Brextiers and in society .
The differences between two parties , Labour has admitted it exists in its deputy , and has said it need to be dealt with ,staff members at there HQ have been TV interviewed , the police and
EHRC are independently Investigating it .
That's all one can say really ,ones opinions have been superseded by actual events and facts all under investigation.
Yes, well actually I know an ex Lambeth labour councillor who's privately nuts about Moslems so I'm sure that's not confined to any party and indeed nor is anti semitism.
As you say, the difference is when one party denies/ justifies it, when it's so widespread that it needs official investigations to be launched, and when grass roots labour voters jump in to deny/ justify the problem .