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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
David Vincent
If life in prison was worse than death then most lifers would kill themselves. The fact that they don't is proof that death is a worse punishment.
There is an interesting case going on at the moment which exposes the hypocrisy of our government. They are blaming Trump for not extraditing the American base car driver and yet we are protecting two Indian/British people from being tried for murder in India. The crime they are accused of is not uncommon in some parts of the world. Evil people are adopting orphans for the sole purpose of insuring them and then killing them for the insurance payout. Anyone who thinks these murderers do not deserve death is mentally unbalanced. Yes, I'm looking at some of you nutjobs on here. Imagine doing this to poor orphans who have already suffered so much.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/india-extr...121219294.html
Not heard of that one. Pack them off.
We must have some Americans we can trade for the Dunn killer. Or is it a case of they say send them back here and we listen to them straight away. India not so much.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
David Vincent
If life in prison was worse than death then most lifers would kill themselves. The fact that they don't is proof that death is a worse punishment.
There is an interesting case going on at the moment which exposes the hypocrisy of our government. They are blaming Trump for not extraditing the American base car driver and yet we are protecting two Indian/British people from being tried for murder in India. The crime they are accused of is not uncommon in some parts of the world. Evil people are adopting orphans for the sole purpose of insuring them and then killing them for the insurance payout. Anyone who thinks these murderers do not deserve death is mentally unbalanced. Yes, I'm looking at some of you nutjobs on here. Imagine doing this to poor orphans who have already suffered so much.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/india-extr...121219294.html
You calling someonelse a 'nutjob' is quite astounding. :hehe:
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
David Vincent
If life in prison was worse than death then most lifers would kill themselves. The fact that they don't is proof that death is a worse punishment.
There is an interesting case going on at the moment which exposes the hypocrisy of our government. They are blaming Trump for not extraditing the American base car driver and yet we are protecting two Indian/British people from being tried for murder in India. The crime they are accused of is not uncommon in some parts of the world. Evil people are adopting orphans for the sole purpose of insuring them and then killing them for the insurance payout. Anyone who thinks these murderers do not deserve death is mentally unbalanced. Yes, I'm looking at some of you nutjobs on here. Imagine doing this to poor orphans who have already suffered so much.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/india-extr...121219294.html
Over 140 countries in the world don't have the death penalty and India has executed 4 people in the last 20 years. There seem to be an awful lot of unbalanced nutjobs out there!
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
For those in favour, what crimes should be punished by the death penalty then? Where do we draw the line?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
The fixation by some to make the worst possible punishment, is strange to me.
Surely what everyone wants is the safest possible country, and there is a lot of evidence that this isn't achieved by the death penalty.
I certainly wouldn't want a government who were as fixated on vengeance
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
For those in favour, what crimes should be punished by the death penalty then? Where do we draw the line?
It is easy. To have justice the punishment must be as great as the crime. You wouldn't kill people for theft because that punishment is far greater than the crime.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
David Vincent
It is easy. To have justice the punishment must be as great as the crime. You wouldn't kill people for theft because that punishment is far greater than the crime.
So only killing people then?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rjk
The fixation by some to make the worst possible punishment, is strange to me.
Surely what everyone wants is the safest possible country, and there is a lot of evidence that this isn't achieved by the death penalty.
I certainly wouldn't want a government who were as fixated on vengeance
What you call vengeance many people call justice. I suppose you are one of those forgive and forget types. That's easy when you are not a victim yourself.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
For those in favour, what crimes should be punished by the death penalty then? Where do we draw the line?
Thats far too general.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
David Vincent
It is easy. To have justice the punishment must be as great as the crime. You wouldn't kill people for theft because that punishment is far greater than the crime.
What if you get into an altercation with someone and you feel a bit threatened and lash out and they fall and hit their head on the ground and die, do you get a death sentence?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Thats far too general.
That's the point, what if someone is fighting and kills someone by accident? What if someone is speeding and kills someone? Does he want all rape included? Or just when kids are involved?
And who's drawing this line? The current Government? Would you trust them to select the "right" crimes?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
That's the point, what if someone is fighting and kills someone by accident? What if someone is speeding and kills someone? Does he want all rape included? Or just when kids are involved?
And who's drawing this line? The current Government? Would you trust them to select the "right" crimes?
Then you have to look at it as an individual case. The same crimes are not punishable by the same sentences at the moment are they? Theres not set punishments for set crimes. There's guidelines and the judge decides.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
So you'd be happy for a judge to decide if something is worth killing someone for?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
What if you get into an altercation with someone and you feel a bit threatened and lash out and they fall and hit their head on the ground and die, do you get a death sentence?
The courts and the police know what is murder and what is manslaughter or killing in self-defence.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
So you'd be happy for a judge to decide if something is worth killing someone for?
Someone has got to make a decision about everything.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
David Vincent
The courts and the police know what is murder and what is manslaughter or killing in self-defence.
The courts and police are not infallible, what if the other guy had a mate with him who said that you just hit him out of nowhere, and the jury believed his word against yours?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
The courts and police are not infallible, what if the other guy had a mate with him who said that you just hit him out of nowhere, and the jury believed his word against yours?
Whether murderers deserve death is a separate question to how do we know if someone is guilty of murder. We don't have a good legal system and we don't know for certain if anyone is really guilty of any crime. But we still have to arrest and punish people.
We don't have perfect knowledge. I was once accused of something I didn't do. It wasn't anything to do with the police but if it had gone before a judge and a jury they would never have believed me. If I just had the facts of the incident I would never have believed my explanation. It was ridiculous but it was also true. It caused me some trouble at the time but it is all long ago and forgotten by everyone except myself. If the accusation had been murder I would have gone to gallows laughing at the bizarreness of it. I would have accepted that the judge and the jury had made the correct decision given the facts. We live in a world where injustice is bound to happen. The best we can do is find the wisest judges and juries. Maybe we should have IQ restrictions on who can sit in judge of us.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
So you'd be happy for a judge to decide if something is worth killing someone for?
Absolutely. Im more than happy for a judge to decide someone of the ilk of the Ian Huntleys and Mick Philpotts of this world to be killed for the crimes they commited.
Im not endorsing we start killing every petty criminal but the ones who have been locked away for life because their crimes are deemed so bad. Get rid of them. Serves no purpose to pay to keep them alive.
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Did the children Mick Philpott killed, his own children, get a say in wether they were worth killing or not?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Someone killed my child /grandchild or abused them , or blew up innocent people in the name of some crap ideal , I would gladly kill them or watch them die in the hands of a justice system .
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Someone killed my child /grandchild or abused them , or blew up innocent people in the name of some crap ideal , I would gladly kill them or watch them die in the hands of a justice system .
That's why we don't let victims choose the punishment because it isn't justice. If someone hurt my family I wouldn't be bothered if they were killed but that wouldn''t be just.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Absolutely. Im more than happy for a judge to decide someone of the ilk of the Ian Huntleys and Mick Philpotts of this world to be killed for the crimes they commited.
Im not endorsing we start killing every petty criminal but the ones who have been locked away for life because their crimes are deemed so bad. Get rid of them. Serves no purpose to pay to keep them alive.
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Did the children Mick Philpott killed, his own children, get a say in wether they were worth killing or not?
I would have no problem with Mick Philpott being killed but it's not usually that simple. I also happen to think being locked up for his whole life is worse than just lights out and dead.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Someone killed my child /grandchild or abused them , or blew up innocent people in the name of some crap ideal , I would gladly kill them or watch them die in the hands of a justice system .
Which is why family members don't sentence criminals.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
I would have no problem with Mick Philpott being killed but it's not usually that simple. I also happen to think being locked up for his whole life is worse than just lights out and dead.
Well I disagree. Hes got a roof over his head and 3 square meals a day. A lot more than a lot of people in this country who didnt kill their own children have got.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Well I disagree. Hes got a roof over his head and 3 square meals a day. A lot more than a lot of people in this country who didnt kill their own children have got.
But if he was dead he wouldn't even be aware of anything, isn't that the easy way out?
I think my main argument with it is in an ideal world with fair people giving fair judgements on criminals that were 100% guilty it could work. Unfortunately many people are wrongly convicted and poeple in power are often corrupt. As well as the fact it isn't a deterrant and is more expensive than life in prison it just doesn't seem worth it to me.
That's without the unconciou bias that means poorer people are more likely to be convicted of a crime.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Someone killed my child /grandchild or abused them , or blew up innocent people in the name of some crap ideal , I would gladly kill them or watch them die in the hands of a justice system .
Not just gladly kill bombers yourself, but in the case of the Birmingham 6 and the Guildford 4, save the country the embarrassment of releasing them when they had their innocence proved!
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
But if he was dead he wouldn't even be aware of anything, isn't that the easy way out?
I think my main argument with it is in an ideal world with fair people giving fair judgements on criminals that were 100% guilty it could work. Unfortunately many people are wrongly convicted and poeple in power are often corrupt. As well as the fact it isn't a deterrant and is more expensive than life in prison it just doesn't seem worth it to me.
That's without the unconciou bias that means poorer people are more likely to be convicted of a crime.
Do you really think the type of monsrer we are talking about are aware of anything and have a conscience?
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J R Hartley
Do you really think the type of monsrer we are talking about are aware of anything and have a conscience?
It's not really the point I'm making though is it, I don't care if a monster like that dies I just think the death penalty has too many flaws.
Also for me it t doesn't matter about conscience, if you're dead you've got away with it.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
I have honestly never read such rubbish in my whole life.
I haven’t opened this thread as I was dreading the boring arguing I expected to see, but fooking hell am I glad I did, just to read these posts by DV :hehe:
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
For those in favour, what crimes should be punished by the death penalty then? Where do we draw the line?
Taking shortcuts.
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Re: Prison Justice served ? ? ? return of the death sentence ? ? ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
William Treseder
So the vast majority on here are dead against (excuse the pun) the death penalty.
I am among that no. as well.
What I am for though in these cases like Sutcliffe, Huntley, Hindley, Brady etc is life in a small cell, with a toilet in it, and basic food like bread and water., with absolutely no privileges.
Anyone disagree with this?
Give them the bare minimum that is acceptable (you know you’ll get human rights protesters fighting for them)
Minimum food/water to keep them alive
Blanket OR pillow
No window and lights out early
Hour max to stretch their legs. Kept apart so they can’t talk
No visitors
Absolutely no mail/reading material etc.
As much as I’d like for them to be shot I don’t think I could agree with the DP.