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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Absolutely spot on. There's been some weird comments from some in this thread.
The slaughter and kidnap of innocent citizens is always beyond the pale and is always absolutely wrong. Whatever the political divide one should always deplore violence against the innocent and vulnerable.
Well said 👍.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
Absolutely spot on. There's been some weird comments from some in this thread.
The slaughter and kidnap of innocent citizens is always beyond the pale and is always absolutely wrong. Whatever the political divide one should always deplore violence against the innocent and vulnerable.
Correct. As someone said on the radio this morning, sometimes the most intelligent thing to do is to say less and listen more.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Israel today saying this is their 9/11.
Probably a fair comparison both in scale and unexpectedness and I suppose also in terms of how the two sides will frame this.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Watching the news last night someone painted a scenario - Imagine if Corbyn had won the election, what would he and the Labour party do in this situation.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Watching the news last night someone painted a scenario - Imagine if Corbyn had won the election, what would he and the Labour party do in this situation.
Inject a lot of sense into this madness.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Watching the news last night someone painted a scenario - Imagine if Corbyn had won the election, what would he and the Labour party do in this situation.
Think you are trying too hard for attention/bites* (delete as appropriate).
As others have said there have been some unnecessary rubbish in this thread and this is the latest example.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Richard Hecht is the colonel and spokesman of the Israeli Army
He's originally from Glasgow and like a lot of the settlers in Israel is so clearly entrenched in his view that he and his side are right and the Palestinians are wrong
He was on the news talking about defeating the enemy what an absolute delusion
The young man from London who has died fighting for the Israeli army is entitled to do what he wants with his life which sadly has now ended but instead of living as a young man with friends from all backgrounds his faith or religion or whatever it is has propelled him over to a land to fight people he has learned to hate .....his family said he was a good boy but he's taken free will at the age of 20 to fight for a land and its people based upon what he's learned about at Jewish school
And there are obviously young Palestinians who will be on the opposite side and involved in acts of violence despite being in reality just kids
There are huge communities of secular Jews and Arabs living together in Israel , Tel Aviv was until recently a fairly chilled out place , given its history but when in countries faraway from Israel and Palestine young people are being fed and educated by people on both sides who hate and live in the past then it's the viscous circle of tit for tat
There's absolutely no chance of this conflict ever being resolved I am afraid
No chance
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
"Think you are trying too hard for attention/bites* (delete as appropriate).
As others have said there have been some unnecessary rubbish in this thread and this is the latest example."
Coming from you Evans - that is staggering. Dorcus seems to think Corbyn would inject a lot of sense into the situation - do you agree ?
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
"Think you are trying too hard for attention/bites* (delete as appropriate).
As others have said there have been some unnecessary rubbish in this thread and this is the latest example."
Coming from you Evans - that is staggering. Dorcus seems to think Corbyn would inject a lot of sense into the situation - do you agree ?
No. But I also think trying to drag Corbyn back into a discussion after you tried and failed to troll about Labour earlier in the thread was infantile and puerile. But plus ca change. Multis have to mult I guess!
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
I'm sure this will be controversial for many and whilst I wouldn't presume to speak for Sludge I think a suggestion on the conflict might tie in to his general thoughts on the issue.
There's no doubt this conflict knows no bounds and will run and run and run. How long in time and how many innocents will be killed and maimed before a political settlement will be achieved to end the cycle of suffering? Many people cannot see that horizon because it's much too far away.
Although an eye for an eye is rooted in the psyche of nearly all humans as a rational reaction to attack I wonder if in this instance Israel would be better advised to spare any more human suffering and resist retaliation?
I think if they followed this course of non retaliatory violence Israel would likely gain kudos and probably gain much more support for their cause than hitherto.
What exactly will exacting violent punishment achieve? It certainly won't act as a deterrent because it will inevitably lead to more conflict and, incidentally probably increase support for the Palestinian people.
This may be an opportunity for Israel to lay the foundations for a peaceful settlement by gaining the moral high ground and resisting the shrill calls to exact revenge.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
I'm sure this will be controversial for many and whilst I wouldn't presume to speak for Sludge I think a suggestion on the conflict might tie in to his general thoughts on the issue.
There's no doubt this conflict knows no bounds and will run and run and run. How long in time and how many innocents will be killed and maimed before a political settlement will be achieved to end the cycle of suffering? Many people cannot see that horizon because it's much too far away.
Although an eye for an eye is rooted in the psyche of nearly all humans as a rational reaction to attack I wonder if in this instance Israel would be better advised to spare any more human suffering and resist retaliation?
I think if they followed this course of non retaliatory violence Israel would likely gain kudos and probably gain much more support for their cause than hitherto.
What exactly will exacting violent punishment achieve? It certainly won't act as a deterrent because it will inevitably lead to more conflict and, incidentally probably increase support for the Palestinian people.
This may be an opportunity for Israel to lay the foundations for a peaceful settlement by gaining the moral high ground and resisting the shrill calls to exact revenge.
Pulling back from a mass ground attack would be the most appropriate and sensible move
But there are too many fanatics in the government that will make it happen and of course the general Israeli population who in so many cases will understandly want action ......even if the world knows that will make things far worse
It would be a step forward if Israel stepped back but the chances of that happening are zero I would imagine
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
I would say the chance of no retaliation is about zero. And I cant think of any situation where that has happened. There is certainly a bigger picture esp re Saudi Arabia. Not sure why Hamas would think doing this would lead to more peace, unless they obviously want to start a new war in the region.
If neither side will ever accept the other, or accept a situation that allows peace - then they will always fight. The non rational argument is - let them get on with - whoever wins - 'wins' - but in reality that would start ww3.
What happens next ? - more death and violence seems inevitable.
Looking at some of the footage - Hamas terrorists - are they all Palestinian ? or do they recruit from Africa?
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
I'm sure this will be controversial for many and whilst I wouldn't presume to speak for Sludge I think a suggestion on the conflict might tie in to his general thoughts on the issue.
There's no doubt this conflict knows no bounds and will run and run and run. How long in time and how many innocents will be killed and maimed before a political settlement will be achieved to end the cycle of suffering? Many people cannot see that horizon because it's much too far away.
Although an eye for an eye is rooted in the psyche of nearly all humans as a rational reaction to attack I wonder if in this instance Israel would be better advised to spare any more human suffering and resist retaliation?
I think if they followed this course of non retaliatory violence Israel would likely gain kudos and probably gain much more support for their cause than hitherto.
What exactly will exacting violent punishment achieve? It certainly won't act as a deterrent because it will inevitably lead to more conflict and, incidentally probably increase support for the Palestinian people.
This may be an opportunity for Israel to lay the foundations for a peaceful settlement by gaining the moral high ground and resisting the shrill calls to exact revenge.
You are right of course, and that goes for any conflict really, but we all know it won't happen unfortunately.
The best hope is for no wild escalation
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
I think the subject of the thread is far more important that the usual descent of Punch and Judy left v right spats between the usual parties on here.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
There's absolutely no chance of this conflict ever being resolved I am afraid
No chance
I don't know why you always come out with this 'there is no hope and no solution' view Sludge. You do it all the time and with all sorts of issues - from anti-Tory electoral pacts to climate change to global conflicts. I don't understand why you are so pessimistic and defeatist. There is always hope.
Israel/Palestine is certainly one of the biggest and most difficult conflicts - over 75 years old and now more entrenched than ever - but the same things were said about South Africa and Ireland.
There is a will for peace amongst many Israeli Jews, Israeli Arabs and Palestinians from the occupied territories. As you said in your post there are brave, committed and non-sectarian people across the divide. That is positive. There also has to be leadership within the Israeli state and from the Palestinian side - not an endless cycle of oppression, rage, provocation and reaction. There is little sign of that at the moment - but even a corrupt thug like Netanyahu could be drawn into a new peace process if he thought it was inevitable or in his own best interests (not so many of his far right, racist, government partners) as happened with South Africa, and even vilified and isolated Hamas has leading members who have made back channel contacts with the Israelis to begin a new peace process as recently as 2018.
I have no idea where a new process will begin - beyond Egypt and Qatar trying to create a short-term truce. Most of the world (including the UN, EU and other regional organisations) claim to support a two state solution, whilst standing by while that option has been dismantled by creeping annexation over the past 20 odd years. Israel gets a diplomatic, economic and military free pass whatever it does in defiance of international law and conventions. Hamas, a product of the occupation, poses as the defender of Palestinians when no one else gives a toss - but ends up using civilians as pawns in a desperate high-stakes game. Yet there is opposition to the current Israeli government in Israel and there is a new generation of Palestinian activists who reject both Hamas (violent Islamists) and the Palestinian Authority (who make big statements but act like the puny agents of the Israeli state on the West Bank - like a Vichy regime).
It won't be easy and it won't be quick but I believe there are enough elements of a solution out there for a settlement to emerge. Not a biblical Jewish supremacist apartheid state that has annexed the West Bank and Gaza and expelled the remaining indigenous people. Not the obliteration of an Israeli state that has existed and created its own roots and history over 75 years. But a compromise that most can live with. Ideally it would be a single democratic state with equal rights for all citizens - but more likely a new partition (creating a viable Palestinian state) where there would be another round of losers (land and citizenship) but a long term internationally guaranteed deal that can be established and protected over the next three generations - with some joint institutions (as in Ireland) and a reconciliation process once the time is right (as in South Africa).
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
If I was Israel I'd just go for it big time . Innocent folk should give Hamas up , they know who they are disgusting bunch of Iranian back terrorists.
They don't want peace they'd miss the funding.
Sludge I'd right it will never end as they all want Israel pushed into the sea ( Iranian quote ).
Where is Jezzer?
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Israel's Defence Minister orders "complete siege" of Gaza Strip: "No electricity, no food, no fuel"
Two million people live in Gaza, half are children. What an awful, awful situation.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
If I was Israel I'd just go for it big time . Innocent folk should give Hamas up , they know who they are disgusting bunch of Iranian back terrorists.
They don't want peace they'd miss the funding.
Sludge I'd right it will never end as they all want Israel pushed into the sea ( Iranian quote ).
Where is Jezzer?
And here we have the root of the problem. With people like this around look forward to endless carnage on both sides.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dorcus
And here we have the root of the problem. With people like this around look forward to endless carnage on both sides.
This brutal attack on Palestinians on 6th April 2023 https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-relea...al-aqsa-mosque
Both sides are culpable.
And people like LOM cheer it on and has the audacity to criticise Corbyn. There will never be peace and innocent civilians will continue to die and suffer.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninian opinian
This brutal attack on Palestinians on 6th April 2023
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-relea...al-aqsa-mosque
Both sides are culpable.
And people like LOM cheer it on and has the audacity to criticise Corbyn. There will never be peace and innocent civilians will continue to die and suffer.
Exactly, it's never those high up in the echelon who lose their lives; the perpetrators of the mayhem get away scott free on both sides. The people who will continue to suffer are just innocent pawns in the conflict. By the way, which conflict has ever been any different?
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I don't know why you always come out with this 'there is no hope and no solution' view Sludge. You do it all the time and with all sorts of issues - from anti-Tory electoral pacts to climate change to global conflicts. I don't understand why you are so pessimistic and defeatist. There is always hope.
Israel/Palestine is certainly one of the biggest and most difficult conflicts - over 75 years old and now more entrenched than ever - but the same things were said about South Africa and Ireland.
There is a will for peace amongst many Israeli Jews, Israeli Arabs and Palestinians from the occupied territories. As you said in your post there are brave, committed and non-sectarian people across the divide. That is positive. There also has to be leadership within the Israeli state and from the Palestinian side - not an endless cycle of oppression, rage, provocation and reaction. There is little sign of that at the moment - but even a corrupt thug like Netanyahu could be drawn into a new peace process if he thought it was inevitable or in his own best interests (not so many of his far right, racist, government partners) as happened with South Africa, and even vilified and isolated Hamas has leading members who have made back channel contacts with the Israelis to begin a new peace process as recently as 2018.
I have no idea where a new process will begin - beyond Egypt and Qatar trying to create a short-term truce. Most of the world (including the UN, EU and other regional organisations) claim to support a two state solution, whilst standing by while that option has been dismantled by creeping annexation over the past 20 odd years. Israel gets a diplomatic, economic and military free pass whatever it does in defiance of international law and conventions. Hamas, a product of the occupation, poses as the defender of Palestinians when no one else gives a toss - but ends up using civilians as pawns in a desperate high-stakes game. Yet there is opposition to the current Israeli government in Israel and there is a new generation of Palestinian activists who reject both Hamas (violent Islamists) and the Palestinian Authority (who make big statements but act like the puny agents of the Israeli state on the West Bank - like a Vichy regime).
It won't be easy and it won't be quick but I believe there are enough elements of a solution out there for a settlement to emerge. Not a biblical Jewish supremacist apartheid state that has annexed the West Bank and Gaza and expelled the remaining indigenous people. Not the obliteration of an Israeli state that has existed and created its own roots and history over 75 years. But a compromise that most can live with. Ideally it would be a single democratic state with equal rights for all citizens - but more likely a new partition (creating a viable Palestinian state) where there would be another round of losers (land and citizenship) but a long term internationally guaranteed deal that can be established and protected over the next three generations - with some joint institutions (as in Ireland) and a reconciliation process once the time is right (as in South Africa).
I wish I shared your optimism
I think you are hoping for a settlement and I share that hope
But I think in 200 years they will still be at each other
Of course it's not every Arab and every Jew but its more than enough
" we are fighting animals and we have to act accordingly "
That's an Israeli government spokesman , its clear the whole of the gaza strip is seen as the enemy
As I said , I don't share your optimism
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Having just watched Hamas release their 4k hi definition camera footage of them executing people - they are effectively now ISIS.
I have just seen the Pro Palestine march outside the Labour party conference today. Not affilliated to Labour but the 'activists' on that march looked the usual rent a mob crowd etc. After what just happened on Saturday - you would think they'd call it off. Interesting interview from Margaret Hodge on LBC today
"Today is not a good day for anti semitism"
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninian opinian
Israel's Defence Minister orders "complete siege" of Gaza Strip: "No electricity, no food, no fuel"
Two million people live in Gaza, half are children. What an awful, awful situation.
The idea of self defence is being supported when in reality this will be a complete invasion and slaughter
The international peace makers should be in there but that's never going to happen
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Having just watched Hamas release their 4k hi definition camera footage of them executing people - they are effectively now ISIS.
I have just seen the Pro Palestine march outside the Labour party conference today. Not affilliated to Labour but the 'activists' on that march looked the usual rent a mob crowd etc. After what just happened on Saturday - you would think they'd call it off. Interesting interview from Margaret Hodge on
LBC today
"Today is not a good day for anti semitism"
If the atrocities had happened last week then they would have been demonstrating outside the Tory conference too. You are conflating antisemitism with support for the Palestinian people. It’s not the same thing.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
The human cost for 2008 to 2023. Palestinian deaths 6407, Israeli deaths 308. At least 15,560 Palestinian and 6,308 Israelis were injured. Does not include the latest atrocities.
Each one a human being, a mother a father, a brother a sister. Absolutely heartbreaking for both sides.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninian opinian
The human cost for 2008 to 2023. Palestinian deaths 6407, Israeli deaths 308. At least 15,560 Palestinian and 6,308 Israelis were injured. Does not include the latest atrocities.
Each one a human being, a mother a father, a brother a sister. Absolutely heartbreaking for both sides.
Absolutely
There was a funeral of a young Israeli soldier from London who had gone over to Israel at 18 and was killed on Saturday
The funeral was halted because of threats of incoming missiles
What a complete waste of a young life and there will be funerals on the west bank today too
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninian opinian
The human cost for 2008 to 2023. Palestinian deaths 6407, Israeli deaths 308. At least 15,560 Palestinian and 6,308 Israelis were injured. Does not include the latest atrocities.
Each one a human being, a mother a father, a brother a sister. Absolutely heartbreaking for both sides.
Well said. :thumbup:
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
I wish I shared your optimism
I think you are hoping for a settlement and I share that hope
But I think in 200 years they will still be at each other
Of course it's not every Arab and every Jew but its more than enough
" we are fighting animals and we have to act accordingly "
That's an Israeli government spokesman , its clear the whole of the gaza strip is seen as the enemy
As I said , I don't share your optimism
I have very little short term optimism. It is going to get worse before it gets better. But long term we all have the ability to do a little to change things for the better. Support what promotes peace and justice and oppose the opposite. There is always change and always choices.
I hope and believe that courage and political will and a new generation of activists in Israel, the occupied territories, the USA and parts of the Islamic world will help to shape a route out of this open sore of a conflict. There are templates to follow.
It will help too if the international power brokers drop their hypocrisy and also commit to 'peace and justice'.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jon1959
I have very little short term optimism. It is going to get worse before it gets better. But long term we all have the ability to do a little to change things for the better. Support what promotes peace and justice and oppose the opposite. There is always change and always choices.
I hope and believe that courage and political will and a new generation of activists in Israel, the occupied territories, the USA and parts of the Islamic world will help to shape a route out of this open sore of a conflict. There are templates to follow.
It will help too if the international power brokers drop their hypocrisy and also commit to 'peace and justice'.
In a practical sense Jon, what would be your vision of that on the ground in terms of West Bank, Gaza Strip etc? Ie, what do you think the middle ground that could be sought is?
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
It's also brain fuucking dead when they see how the Israeli state will retaliate against Hamas and it'll be Palestinian civilians dying in their hundreds.
No empathy, no humanity, no compassion, just hate.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Absolutely
There was a funeral of a young Israeli soldier from London who had gone over to Israel at 18 and was killed on Saturday
The funeral was halted because of threats of incoming missiles
What a complete waste of a young life and there will be funerals on the west bank today too
This is what pisses me off about the 'defend your country' bullshit that we hear from cozy brits in response to any conflict and judging people who leave rather than staying to add themselves to the pile of bodies.
What a ****ing waste on both sides.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ninian opinian
If the atrocities had happened last week then they would have been demonstrating outside the Tory conference too. You are conflating antisemitism with support for the Palestinian people. It’s not the same thing.
Have you ever seen any pro palestine demos at a tory party conference or even a lib dem conference? - the most you would get is the blue rinse brigade demanding more toilets. Labour conferences tend to attract the anti Israel pro Palestine crowd.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
It's also brain fuucking dead when they see how the Israeli state will retaliate against Hamas and it'll be Palestinian civilians dying in their hundreds.
No empathy, no humanity, no compassion, just hate.
People reach a simple solution to a difficult problem all the time. It's easier to pick a side and say Israel are *****, Hamas are terrorists, Palestinians who vote for Hamas deserve it, Israelis who vote for Netanyahu deserve it etc. It just makes me realise how comfortable we are and how we probably should not try to have much of an opinion. If I had family in Israel or Gaza, I would almost certainly hate the other side.
What we absolutely do need to avoid though is this 'UK political class support for Israel defending itself' turning into the 'UK political class support for Israel doing whatever the **** it wants in retaliation', there needs to be a line. I am starting to think that line might already have been crossed with shutting off food/water (there could be some strategic argument made for cutting off power/fuel I suppose) unless this is temporary.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
People reach a simple solution to a difficult problem all the time. It's easier to pick a side and say Israel are *****, Hamas are terrorists, Palestinians who vote for Hamas deserve it, Israelis who vote for Netanyahu deserve it etc. It just makes me realise how comfortable we are and how we probably should not try to have much of an opinion. If I had family in Israel or Gaza, I would almost certainly hate the other side.
What we absolutely do need to avoid though is this 'UK political class support for Israel defending itself' turning into the 'UK political class support for Israel doing whatever the **** it wants in retaliation', there needs to be a line. I am starting to think that line might already have been crossed with shutting off food/water (there could be some strategic argument made for cutting off power/fuel I suppose) unless this is temporary.
Civilians from both sides have and will now suffer due to political and nationalist ideologies.
It's a mess. It has been all my lifetime and I don't see it being resolved by the time I pop my cloggs. Some of the stories and imagery are horrific from Israel and Gaza. Why those who enjoy family life in a country far removed from the actual trouble are just devoid of any humanity.
Netanyahu is a ****ing war criminal as is Hamas.
Anyone celebrating or supporting either of the gaggle of cuunts is a cuunt too.
My overly simplistic view on it.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
It wont end until one side wins and the other one loses in that region. Someone said a line has been drawn re shut down of power, food etc. I think that's right. A line has been drawn - Hamas started a war with Israel - it now has 2 options - fight or back down. We know they wont back down and neither will Israel. So Hamas need to either start an evacuation plan or prepare to fight. Eitherway the Gaza strip will flattened over the next few weeks, unless something remarkable happens.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
Have you ever seen any pro palestine demos at a tory party conference or even a lib dem conference? - the most you would get is the blue rinse brigade demanding more toilets. Labour conferences tend to attract the anti Israel pro Palestine crowd.
Stop making these posts to score political points. Demonstrations happen everywhere. It’s an absolute shit show with innocent people being killed.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
Richard Hecht is the colonel and spokesman of the Israeli Army
He's originally from Glasgow and like a lot of the settlers in Israel is so clearly entrenched in his view that he and his side are right and the Palestinians are wrong
He was on the news talking about defeating the enemy what an absolute delusion
The young man from London who has died fighting for the Israeli army is entitled to do what he wants with his life which sadly has now ended but instead of living as a young man with friends from all backgrounds his faith or religion or whatever it is has propelled him over to a land to fight people he has learned to hate .....his family said he was a good boy but he's taken free will at the age of 20 to fight for a land and its people based upon what he's learned about at Jewish school
And there are obviously young Palestinians who will be on the opposite side and involved in acts of violence despite being in reality just kids
There are huge communities of secular Jews and Arabs living together in Israel , Tel Aviv was until recently a fairly chilled out place , given its history but when in countries faraway from Israel and Palestine young people are being fed and educated by people on both sides who hate and live in the past then it's the viscous circle of tit for tat
There's absolutely no chance of this conflict ever being resolved I am afraid
No chance
Tel Aviv still is to be fair, as is much of the heavily populated gush Dan conurbation it sits in. The loons tend to be in the settlements and Jerusalem. I do think there tends to be one major difference between the Tel Aviv type Israeli liberals and certain other progressives around the world though, that's that the Israeli progressives realise that the actions of the Israeli right are wrong and cause a lot of hatred and a lot of the problems, BUT, also that many in the countries around hate them purely for being Jews, and that if Israel retreats to the pre 1967 borders those people will still hate them just for being Jews. Too many so called progressives in the rest of the world seem to be able to see what Israel does wrong, but never want to challenge the attitudes towards Israel/Jews.
I'm all for a 2 state solution, it's the only choice surely. But I don't think for a minute it would stop attacks from the likes of Hamas
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pipster
It wont end until one side wins and the other one loses in that region. Someone said a line has been drawn re shut down of power, food etc. I think that's right. A line has been drawn - Hamas started a war with Israel - it now has 2 options - fight or back down. We know they wont back down and neither will Israel. So Hamas need to either start an evacuation plan or prepare to fight. Eitherway the Gaza strip will flattened over the next few weeks, unless something remarkable happens.
Neither side will back down: the only inevitability is continuing mass bloodshed.
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Re: 40 Killed In Hamas Attacks In Israel
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
Civilians from both sides have and will now suffer due to political and nationalist ideologies.
It's a mess. It has been all my lifetime and I don't see it being resolved by the time I pop my cloggs. Some of the stories and imagery are horrific from Israel and Gaza. Why those who enjoy family life in a country far removed from the actual trouble are just devoid of any humanity.
Netanyahu is a ****ing war criminal as is Hamas.
Anyone celebrating or supporting either of the gaggle of cuunts is a cuunt too.
My overly simplistic view on it.
You say overly simplistic. Personally I think you're spot on.