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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
I'm very sure that if the UK had a land border with a country that had refugees, all the people arguing "first safe haven" would instead be arguing "European countries should work with each other to share it out"
It's NIMBY and isn't fooling anyone.
Well quite.
I still can't see the issue with letting them all in.
The cornerstone of our legal system is that its better to let 10 guilty men go free than punish one innocent man.
If they are asylum seekers, then we need to help them. If they turn out to be economic migrants then so what.
We should have asylum centres on the French side. Anyone processed there has a right to entry.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Just got on to this fascinating thread and I have to say as much as I admire the OP he's being a bit of a tease on this one.
Why would anyone prefer this country over France, (even though our benefits are far worse than Continental Europe!)
Well, apart from the obvious family ties, which I thought no should have nailed the answer...
We have Shakespeare, Byron, Keats and Milton...
We have Constable, Turner and Gainsborough...
We have Holst, Sergeant and Taverner...
We have Newton, Clarke-Maxwell and Steven Hawking...
We have Thomas Hobbes, David Hume and Bertrand Russell...
We have Tom Jones, Roger Moore and Ant and Dec for the ladies...
We have wonderful coasts and magnificent mountains, we have history, intrigue and tradition...
We used to have a proud belief in right and wrong before Brexit...
We have the Beatles...
What's not to like?
I for one feel proud and honoured that these poor people hoped to choose our lovely country over the rest. I weep for their misfortune and sacrifice.
However, what I cannot understand is this...
Our buffoon of a Prime Minister and his evil henchwoman Pritti Patel have wailed so loudly about how sad they are that this tragedy occurred. One wonders, if that is the case why didn't they send out a rescue ship to ensure these poor people reached our great shores safe and sound? In answer to the OP I'm so proud these wretched people wanted refuge in my country; what a shame we are being governed by racist fools.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53699511
The UK take less than Greece then, less than half of what those beret wearing, garlic munching, surrender monkeys Froggies do?
We’re being stitched up here.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Originally Posted by
Jordi Culé
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53699511
The UK take less than Greece then, less than half of what those beret wearing, garlic munching, surrender monkeys Froggies do?
We’re being stitched up here.
Pretty much all the "unanswered" questions from this thread are addressed in this article.
Of those that wanted to travel to England more than half (52%), said they already had a family member there.
"They have a connection to the UK, they speak some English, they have family, they have friends and people in their networks. They want to come and stay and rebuild their lives," says Enver Solomon, chief executive of the Refugee Council.
Many migrants already choose to make an asylum claim in the first country they arrive in - such as Greece, Turkey or Italy - and only a minority choose to travel on to the UK.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Very good......and will be thrown into conversation by me with no ‘nicking it’ embarrassment :hehe:
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
Tenner says those people were shouting "All Lives Matter" at some point in recent history as well
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
delmbox
Tenner says those people were shouting "All Lives Matter" at some point in recent history as well
Why would you say that? It's awful to stop the RNLI doing their work, but the principle of all lives matter is valid.
Can you name the six victims of the Waukesha parade attack last week?
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Originally Posted by
Rjk
It's like the deep south chickenshit cracker land , I am afraid lots of people have this attitude in the UK
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Why would you say that? It's awful to stop the RNLI doing their work, but the principle of all lives matter is valid.
Can you name the six victims of the Waukesha parade attack last week?
All lives matter is a far right protest gesture cry trying to suggest black lives matter don't care about white lives
Which is of course bullshit , it was about the maltreatment of black men by the police in America
You see it all over social media scrawled by people who say they are not racists before going off on one and end up being racist
All lives matter is racist white society's attempt to deflect what at its heart is what black lives matter is all about .
Trying to legitimise all lives matter is cobblers
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Why would you say that? It's awful to stop the RNLI doing their work, but the principle of all lives matter is valid.
Can you name the six victims of the Waukesha parade attack last week?
Yes
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
All lives matter as a philosophy is valid but the phrase itself is as dog whistle as it comes and doesn’t actually mean all lives matter because it’s used to hide the fact that racism occurs.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
All lives matter is a far right protest gesture cry trying to suggest black lives matter don't care about white lives
Which is of course bullshit , it was about the maltreatment of black men by the police in America
You see it all over social media scrawled by people who say they are not racists before going off on one and end up being racist
All lives matter is racist white society's attempt to deflect what at its heart is what black lives matter is all about .
Trying to legitimise all lives matter is cobblers
Sorry, BLM will not solve race issues here or anywhere else. It's the wrong tactic and we are seeing that in the aftermath of Waukesha in the unbelievable difference in reporting.
I just don't see why the link would be made. It's truly awful to prevent the RNLI from doing their work whereas the principle of all lives mattering is a valid stance and more progressive at hears, admittedly with fringe extremists although that goes for BLM too.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
All lives matter as a philosophy is valid but the phrase itself is as dog whistle as it comes and doesn’t actually mean all lives matter because it’s used to hide the fact that racism occurs.
It may be. For some people. But the point is you can stand by all lives matter as s solid progressive principle and it doesn't mean you advocate stopping the RNLI saving lives.
The world is nuanced
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Near does blm.
All lives matter was invented by people trying to detract from BLM.
It’s disingenuous and anyone should be able to see that.
Most people think all lives matter but don’t say it because they know the connotations.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
It may be. For some people. But the point is you can stand by all lives matter as s solid progressive principle and it doesn't mean you advocate stopping the RNLI saving lives.
The world is nuanced
"all lives matter" as a slogan was clearly started as a response to "black lives matter" to try to diminish or counter the message. almost everyone I've seen using it seem much more interested in rejecting the aspirations of BLM than actually doing anything to support "all lives".
I'm sure there are some people out there who are ignorant of the origin of the phrase, and who can't understand why saying that "all lives matter" has racial connotations
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
Near does blm.
All lives matter was invented by people trying to detract from BLM.
It’s disingenuous and anyone should be able to see that.
Most people think all lives matter but don’t say it because they know the connotations.
Yeah, I get it. Personally I think BLM is very very divisive. There's a lot of issues associated with parts of the movement in the US and I genuinely don't think it's progressive at all.
I think it's gained traction as a result of BLM which obviously isn't inclusive and the hyper partisan media in the US.
Point is, you can have a profound belief in principle that all lives matter and hold that reasonably and it doesn't have anything to do with preventing the RNLI from saving lives.
I appreciate it was said in jest but I think that's just an example of how divisive the whole topic has become.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Yeah, I get it. Personally I think BLM is very very divisive. There's a lot of issues associated with parts of the movement in the US and I genuinely don't think it's progressive at all.
I think it's gained traction as a result of BLM which obviously isn't inclusive and the hyper partisan media in the US.
Point is, you can have a profound belief in principle that all lives matter and hold that reasonably and it doesn't have anything to do with preventing the RNLI from saving lives.
I appreciate it was said in jest but I think that's just an example of how divisive the whole topic has become.
Your posts show the opposite.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
Sorry, BLM will not solve race issues here or anywhere else. It's the wrong tactic and we are seeing that in the aftermath of Waukesha in the unbelievable difference in reporting.
I just don't see why the link would be made. It's truly awful to prevent the RNLI from doing their work whereas the principle of all lives mattering is a valid stance and more progressive at hears, admittedly with fringe extremists although that goes for BLM too.
BLM will not solve the problem of racism but its a start
All lives matter is cried out by on the whole racists who simply use the phrase to deflect from their own racism . Its yeah but what about us ! ......without accepting the clear reason for protest by black people affected by racism in the first place .
I think shouting out ....all lives matter ! ....is clearly a defensive cry that wouldn't be needed if the issue of racism was addressed in the first place .
A bloke I know has a shop where he pontificate to people who are in there long enough about George Floyd being a bad guy ......which he was .....without talking about the racism that killed him . During the BLM summer he was full of stuff he had lifted from the Internet from mostly dubious sources about the protestors all being ....Marxists! .....and that the knee on his neck not being in any way related to his death . He was a black historian , a toxicologist , a pathologist and a scenes of crime expert , every day in his shop . Where no black people would go , in a town where very few black people lived and in his life where he didn't know any black people .
He is an idiot and as soon as the all lives matter cry went up , he was shouting .
There are loads of people like him , just in Wales .
Racists .
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
If someone actually thinks all lives matter is the equivalent of blm I honestly don’t think they’re worth engaging with if they still think it after it’s pointed out why it was started. I wouldn’t waste my time replying to James again.
Again for the hard of hearing; Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean only Black Lives Matter. It means they currently don’t matter and should matter as much as other people’s lives do.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
It may be. For some people. But the point is you can stand by all lives matter as s solid progressive principle and it doesn't mean you advocate stopping the RNLI saving lives.
The world is nuanced
It's not a solid progressive principle, its antagonism towards blm , thats what it's about
I hope you are sensible enough to see that
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
If someone actually thinks all lives matter is the equivalent of blm I honestly don’t think they’re worth engaging with if they still think it after it’s pointed out why it was started. I wouldn’t waste my time replying to James again.
Again for the hard of hearing; Black Lives Matter doesn’t mean only Black Lives Matter. It means they currently don’t matter and should matter as much as other people’s lives do.
In one
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
BLM will not solve the problem of racism but its a start
All lives matter is cried out by on the whole racists who simply use the phrase to deflect from their own racism . Its yeah but what about us ! ......without accepting the clear reason for protest by black people affected by racism in the first place .
I think shouting out ....all lives matter ! ....is clearly a defensive cry that wouldn't be needed if the issue of racism was addressed in the first place .
A bloke I know has a shop where he pontificate to people who are in there long enough about George Floyd being a bad guy ......which he was .....without talking about the racism that killed him . During the BLM summer he was full of stuff he had lifted from the Internet from mostly dubious sources about the protestors all being ....Marxists! .....and that the knee on his neck not being in any way related to his death . He was a black historian , a toxicologist , a pathologist and a scenes of crime expert , every day in his shop . Where no black people would go , in a town where very few black people lived and in his life where he didn't know any black people .
He is an idiot and as soon as the all lives matter cry went up , he was shouting .
There are loads of people like him , just in Wales .
Racists .
Is it a start though? Or is it exacerbating and highlighting differences between groups and allowing some very unsavoury groups to be associated under the banner?
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SLUDGE FACTORY
In one
No one is saying it's the same. I'm just saying thatconsistently preaching that all lives matter is, or certainly can be, a pretty reasonable and progressive statement that doesn't seel to drive wedges.
Bad characters will always attach themselves to all groups, BLM certainly included but it doesn't mean it represents all members.
I honestly think it will create more division than it solves. There's a reason the football authorities rightly stressed the taking of the knee shouldn't be seen as connected to the organisation
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
No one is saying it's the same. I'm just saying thatconsistently preaching that all lives matter is, or certainly can be, a pretty reasonable and progressive statement that doesn't seel to drive wedges.
Bad characters will always attach themselves to all groups, BLM certainly included but it doesn't mean it represents all members.
I honestly think it will create more division than it solves. There's a reason the football authorities rightly stressed the taking of the knee shouldn't be seen as connected to the organisation
All lives matter is always going to be associated with racists
And that's because it attracts them
People I know but do not associate with who cry all lives matter are racists and have been long before the George Floyd murder
I am afraid its like moths to a light
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Perhaps in hindsight, Black Lives Matter Too may have been a more understandable slogan, especially to the ignorant churning out all lives matter.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Originally Posted by
splott parker
Perhaps in hindsight, Black Lives Matter Too may have been a more understandable slogan, especially to the ignorant churning out all lives matter.
It wouldn’t matter the type of people you’d want it to be more clear for don’t actually give a shit anyway. They would have come up with something as equally disingenuous as all lives matter.
I can’t believe there are people who say it in good faith with no agenda.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Gammon lives don't matter
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
It wouldn’t matter the type of people you’d want it to be more clear for don’t actually give a shit anyway. They would have come up with something as equally disingenuous as all lives matter.
I can’t believe there are people who say it in good faith with no agenda.
Agreed, or they're really thick and don't understand the message. Protests aren't really protests if they encompass every last person on this planet. Just aint gonna work.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamesWales
No one is saying it's the same. I'm just saying thatconsistently preaching that all lives matter is, or certainly can be, a pretty reasonable and progressive statement that doesn't seel to drive wedges.
Can you please enlighten me as to why saying Black Lives Matter drives wedges?
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Can you please enlighten me as to why saying Black Lives Matter drives wedges?
Everyone shouted 'All lives Matter' Then they went home.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Speaking as someone who has brought a Syrian refugee family to live in the UK under the Home Office local community sponsorship scheme I would say that first priority needs to be given to families with young children. These families could be segregated in France and be brought over safely by normal means i.e. cross channel ferries, thus avoiding the sea crossing in flimsy inflatables and of course the people smugglers who provide them.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric the Half a Bee
Can you please enlighten me as to why saying Black Lives Matter drives wedges?
Saying it doesn't, same as saying Jewish lives matter or all lives matter doesn't.
The organisation though, at the forefront of identity politics fundamentally is shifting how we view society, entrenching within us that our most important characteristics are those which we cannot control; sex, skin colour, nationality etc
By endlessly prefixing people with a skin colour you seperate us up. Sometimes that is relevent in understanding social issues, but usually it isn't.
There is very little progressive about it. It is the wrong diagnosis of the problem and when you get the diagnosis wrong, you get the medicine to fix it wrong. For example, there has been a massive increase in black people murdered in the last year as police have retreated more. This helps no one. It's far from all tied to th BLM movement but it's all connected. There is no focus on what actually kills most black people.
I don't advocate some of the extremists that latch on to 'all lives matter' anymore than the small minority of extremists those who latch onto 'black lives matter' (and someone who does and who posted about killing white people murdered six of them last week by driving his car into them).
It's just all very reactionary and the end result will drive us apart and amplify difference, where we stop seeing people and start seeing a colour.
There's loads of interesting articles on it.
https://unherd.com/2020/08/why-racia...e-reactionary/
https://youtu.be/HT0P3eeMO08
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
I think this sums up the regressive nature of a lot of identity politics for me.
https://youtu.be/Ev373c7wSRg
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
Speaking as someone who has brought a Syrian refugee family to live in the UK under the Home Office local community sponsorship scheme I would say that first priority needs to be given to families with young children. These families could be segregated in France and be brought over safely by normal means i.e. cross channel ferries, thus avoiding the sea crossing in flimsy inflatables and of course the people smugglers who provide them.
Good for you, and I agree.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Originally Posted by
Tuerto
Everyone shouted 'All lives Matter' Then they went home.
The same people who say all lives matter will go about “identity politics” like it’s some silver bullet to the whole thing.
To most people Black Lives Matter means don’t be racist. People will twist it and the politics but they’re very transparent.
Anyone saying all lives matter is either stupid, ignorant or trying to detract from the actual message. They aren’t worth debating it with .
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Croesy Blue
The same people who say all lives matter will go about “identity politics” like it’s some silver bullet to the whole thing.
To most people Black Lives Matter means don’t be racist. People will twist it and the politics but they’re very transparent.
Anyone saying all lives matter is either stupid, ignorant or trying to detract from the actual message. They aren’t worth debating it with .
To effectively say "anyone who disagrees with me is ignorant or stupid" takes quite some lack of self awareness.
I hope ur right. I suspect you aren't. I think you are making things worse.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Originally Posted by
JamesWales
To effectively say "anyone who disagrees with me is ignorant or stupid" takes quite some lack of self awareness.
I hope ur right. I suspect you aren't. I think you are making things worse.
What does All lives matter mean then? It's obvious what black lives matter means.
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Re: Why wouldn’t Asylum Seekers….
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Originally Posted by
Tuerto
What does All lives matter mean then? It's obvious what black lives matter means.
I would suggest it means that it's better, more progressive to go down the route of treating all human beings with equal dignity and not dividing up along racial lines.
I'm not saying I go around saying it - I don't. My point was that the debate has become so utterly preposterous that someone felt, admittedly in jest perhaps, that saying 'all lives matter' is comparable to trying to prevent the RNLI from saving drowning people.
If anything demonstrates how toxic and divisive this is then it's that. A perfectly reasonable, rational phrase has become toxic because it doesn't fit the identity politics, racialised narrative that determines that skin colour MUST play a part.
We need to step back from this way of thinking in my opinion. It's dangerous stuff.