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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Some folk just love to have some right wing blood dripping from their lips , no matter the real substance of the incident, blinded by the (right wing) hatred light .
If the nutter Boris got into power ( lets hop he doesn't ) achieved zero unemployment ,raised the minimum wage to 15 pound an hour , fully funded social care , you'd get folk saying ,who did he shag last night , whilst ordinary folk deliver far worse social behaviors, behinds closed doors.
I've never liked Boris, but it does seem as thought the media are giving him the "Trump" treatment. The thing is, the blue rinse brigade are going to vote for him in their thousands, and nothing is going to change that.
BTW that Telegraph article seems to confirm my observations, that Mrs Boris was effected by the Worboys news, and that the wine on the sofa incident kicked everything off.
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I've never liked Boris, but it does seem as thought the media are giving him the "Trump" treatment. The thing is, the blue rinse brigade are going to vote for him in their thousands, and nothing is going to change that.
BTW that Telegraph article seems to confirm my observations, that Mrs Boris was effected by the Worboys news, and that the wine on the sofa incident kicked everything off.
To be fair the women can't have found it easy , and then learning what could have happened to her, must play on ones mind, and effect her behaviours thereafter.
Still don't get why she linked up with Boris , surely she knew about his philandering ?
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
You're another one who plays fast and loose with the facts in order to shape a narrative that is acceptable to your way of thinking. I would put you one notch behind lardy in the delusion stakes, although it's very close :biggrin:
Still waiting for you to come up with hard evidence to back up the statement you made. Come on, for the fourth time, where is it?
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Taunton Blue Genie
Still waiting for you to come up with hard evidence to back up the statement you made. Come on, for the fourth time, where is it?
All I know it you were happy to see a man's life destroyed, even after we found out it was all a set up. It was another case of playing politics with people's lives.
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
Some folk just love to have some right wing blood dripping from their lips , no matter the real substance of the incident, blinded by the (right wing) hatred light .
If the nutter Boris got into power ( lets hop he doesn't ) achieved zero unemployment ,raised the minimum wage to 15 pound an hour , fully funded social care , you'd get folk saying ,who did he shag last night , whilst ordinary folk deliver far worse social behaviors, behinds closed doors.
Do you really think he’s capable or that?
His interviews today show that he has very little but that tiresome vaudeville comic act going for him.
John Major was interviewed he other day. Now that was a sensible Tory politician.
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
All I know it you were happy to see a man's life destroyed, even after we found out it was all a set up. It was another case of playing politics with people's lives.
Thank for misrepresenting my views yet again but, for the fifth time, where is the evidence to back up the statement in question?
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CardiffIrish2
Do you really think he’s capable or that?
His interviews today show that he has very little but that tiresome vaudeville comic act going for him.
John Major was interviewed he other day. Now that was a sensible Tory politician.
No I dont think he's capable of that, I was just painting a picture .
He's more Libereal than folk give him credit for though .
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I've never liked Boris, but it does seem as thought the media are giving him the "Trump" treatment. The thing is, the blue rinse brigade are going to vote for him in their thousands, and nothing is going to change that.
BTW that Telegraph article seems to confirm my observations, that Mrs Boris was effected by the Worboys news, and that the wine on the sofa incident kicked everything off.
Your version of events might just be right who knows, but, for me, this thread has developed into far more now than just a debate into what that row was about (although I will say that before the voting had begun, who was the candidate who was most likely to be the subject of such a story? There's a reason for that.). No, it became more than that when you started using terms like "her rapist" when, even according to the alleged victim, there was no justification for doing so and then compounded the error by accusing me and others who pointed out your carelessness and thoughtless of trying to prove the innocence of a convicted serial rapist. That's an accusation so ludicrous that it would be hilarious under different circumstances - you crossed a line there as far as I'm concerned.
By the way, who is "Mrs Boris"? I could say which one do you mean, there's been so many of them, but that would be flippant. It is so, so ironic that you are taking the moral high ground regarding the "poor lady" when, having re read the thread to make sure, it strikes me that there has only ever been one person in it who has been disrespectful to her and you're still at it! Her name is Carrie Symonds and, judging by what I've read about her in the past few days, I would say she is the epitome of a modern day, empowered woman who has made her own way in life despite some traumatic events in earlier years - I wonder what she would think about being called Mrs Boris?
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
Your version of events might just be right who knows, but, for me, this thread has developed into far more now than just a debate into what that row was about (although I will say that before the voting had begun, who was the candidate who was most likely to be the subject of such a story? There's a reason for that.). No, it became more than that when you started using terms like "her rapist" when, even according to the alleged victim, there was no justification for doing so and then compounded the error by accusing me and others who pointed out your carelessness and thoughtless of trying to prove the innocence of a convicted serial rapist. That's an accusation so ludicrous that it would be hilarious under different circumstances - you crossed a line there as far as I'm concerned.
I found it odd that you would single out the iNews 99.5% quote published 4 days after the event without any context, which inferred the probabilty that nothing happened, even though the victim had absolutely no recollection of the event. This had the side effect of portraying Warboys as being 99.5% innocent. The only other refererence I could find to this 99.5% quote was a 2018 article in The Sun, and again it also appeared without any context.
There are much better sourced accounts of what happened which you ignored. The 2009 Telegraph interview is the most complete account, and after reading it I didn't have a feeling of being 99.9% sure that nothing happened. The author even refers to her as being a victim.
John Worboys: Victim Carrie Symonds' story
At the age of 19, Carrie Symonds was one of John Worboys' youngest victims.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nds-story.html
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And if you want to know what these woman had to go through, I would suggest giving this a listen. It should be clear how after over a hundred complaints, there was only ever one conviction for rape.
This monster travelled around with a professional rape kit that included powerful sedatives, gloves, sex toys, condoms, etc., and he was careful to minimize the risk of leaving behind any DNA evidence. None of his victims had any recollection of what happened, causing huge psychological trauma. His defence team also challenged every accusation in court, and they put every one of them through hell on the witness stand.
John Worboys victim says Met officers 'laughed' at her
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...20/rape-police
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Anyway, I think we should leave it here Saint Bob, and I will bow to your superior rightousness, and unparalleled walking on water powers. I'm just a lowly street fighter with a knack for getting to the bottom of things, in a less than elegant way.
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I found it odd that you would single out the iNews 99.5% quote published 4 days after the event without any context, which inferred the probabilty that nothing happened, even though the victim had absolutely no recollection of the event. This had the side effect of portraying Warboys as being 99.5% innocent. The only other refererence I could find to this 99.5% quote was a 2018 article in The Sun, and again it also appeared without any context.
There are much better sourced accounts of what happened which you ignored. The 2009 Telegraph interview is the most complete account, and after reading it I didn't have a feeling of being 99.9% sure that nothing happened. The author even refers to her as being a victim.
John Worboys: Victim Carrie Symonds' story
At the age of 19, Carrie Symonds was one of John Worboys' youngest victims.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nds-story.html
--
And if you want to know what these woman had to go through, I would suggest giving this a listen. It should be clear how after over a hundred complaints, there was only ever one conviction for rape.
This monster travelled around with a professional rape kit that included powerful sedatives, gloves, sex toys, condoms, etc., and he was careful to minimize the risk of leaving behind any DNA evidence. None of his victims had any recollection of what happened, causing huge psychological trauma. His defence team also challenged every accusation in court, and they put every one of them through hell on the witness stand.
John Worboys victim says Met officers 'laughed' at her
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...20/rape-police
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Anyway, I think we should leave it here Saint Bob, and I will bow to your superior rightousness, and unparalleled walking on water powers. I'm just a lowly street fighter with a knack for getting to the bottom of things, in a less than elegant way.
I was the person who posted the link on here to the 2009 story you say I ignored :facepalm:.
I don't know why you are arguing with me about that quote, you should be telling the person who said it that she's wrong because you know better than her.
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I was the person who posted the link on here to the 2009 story you say I ignored :facepalm:.
I don't know why you are arguing with me about that quote, you should be telling the person who said it that she's wrong because you know better than her.
I didn't say she was wrong, I just highlighted earlier conflicting events, and like I said the 99.9% quote first showed up in 2018, and it lacks context. I looked but can't find anything else besides that quote in isolation. I may change my opinion if something else turns up, but that still doesn't explain the police report which claimed possible drugging and assault. Why report something if you were 99.9% sure it never happened?
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Interesting how different Wales Bales sees it when a woman accuses Trump of sexual assault (22 so far).
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
I didn't say she was wrong, I just highlighted earlier conflicting events, and like I said the 99.9% quote first showed up in 2018, and it lacks context. I looked but can't find anything else besides that quote in isolation. I may change my opinion if something else turns up, but that still doesn't explain the police report which claimed possible drugging and assault. Why report something if you were 99.9% sure it never happened?
Contemporaneous and Contextual including the 99% quote. I can't believe you used this thread to suggest that a couple of decent people who were legitimately challenging your assertions were doing so because they were rapist apologists. I thought you were better than that and made me come out of self-imposed retirement to ask you to reflect on whether you have pushed things too far.
Yours in hope
Cyril
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7935385.stm
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/...er-sex-attacks
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Contemporaneous and Contextual including the 99% quote. I can't believe you used this thread to suggest that a couple of decent people who were legitimately challenging your assertions were doing so because they were rapist apologists. I thought you were better than that and made me come out of self-imposed retirement to ask you to reflect on whether you have pushed things too far.
Yours in hope
Cyril
Thanks for your interjection, so we are now back to nobody actually knows what happened, which is what I have been saying all along. This of course would of been on her mind on the night of argument, and could have been a factor in the disturbance. I stand by my observation that the press have used this as a political football to bash Boris, which was very wrong IMO.
Nice to see you back, just in time for the storm, hey!
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
Thanks for your interjection, so we are now back to nobody actually knows what happened, which is what I have been saying all along. This of course would of been on her mind on the night of argument, and could have been a factor in the disturbance. I stand by my observation that the press have used this as a political football to bash Boris, which was very wrong IMO.
Nice to see you back, just in time for the storm, hey!
Thought you were man enough to admit that you might have over-reached yourself. Sadly just reinforced the reason why I stopped contributing.
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cyril evans awaydays
Thought you were man enough to admit that you might have over-reached yourself. Sadly just reinforced the reason why I stopped contributing.
The 99.9% nothing happened quote was used to discredit my observations, which I felt were fairly accurate. Although the quote is correctly attributed, it is not based on fact, and it probably wasn't the best way to go about proving somebody is wrong. In hindsight, it derailed the thread, but now we are right back where we started.
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
The 99.9% nothing happened quote was used to discredit my observations, which I felt were fairly accurate. Although the quote is correctly attributed, it is not based on fact, and it probably wasn't the best way to go about proving somebody is wrong. In hindsight, it derailed the thread, but now we are right back where we started.
👏👍
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
He's accusing people of defending rapists, then avoiding retracting or apologising - and you applaud him for it?
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
He's accusing people of defending rapists, then avoiding retracting or apologising - and you applaud him for it?
Not accusing anybody of defending anyone, just highlighting the use of a quote that had the side-effect of exonerating a perpetrator, when he was the only person who would have known what happened, and what crimes took place.
Knowing that you can't even get a simple thing right like the Trump Russia Collusion hoax, I wouldn't expect you to grasp anything more complex that tying your own shoelaces.
It's interesting how everybody is very keen to discredit me, but then give the Guardian a free pass, when they were the ones who published an article in which they knew one of the subjects would be under stress due to news released earlier that day. It makes me wonder how how far you would go to achieve a specific political agenda, as you certainly like to play dirty.
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lardy
He's accusing people of defending rapists, then avoiding retracting or apologising - and you applaud him for it?
You need to read what has been said , and refered too .
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
life on mars
You need to read what has been said , and refered too .
I've read it, as have others. It looks like everyone but two has the same conclusion as me. One of those two is you and the other is the guy who made the unfounded comments.
It's obvious that he would "defend" himself. Maybe you should think a bit longer about who you line up alongside.
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
"But Boris was calm, and he was trying to cool things down. His partner was probably stressed out after hearing a few hours earlier that her rapist had just admitted drugging and raping 4 more girls."
"nobody actually knows what happened, which is what I have been saying all along."
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
"I knew you would be along to offer Bob support in his quest to declare John Worboys innocent."
"Not accusing anybody of defending anyone"
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Veg1960
"But Boris was calm, and he was trying to cool things down. His partner was probably stressed out after hearing a few hours earlier that her rapist had just admitted drugging and raping 4 more girls."
"nobody actually knows what happened, which is what I have been saying all along."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Veg1960
"I knew you would be along to offer Bob support in his quest to declare John Worboys innocent."
"Not accusing anybody of defending anyone"
Game. Set. Match.
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
The 99.9% nothing happened quote was used to discredit my observations, which I felt were fairly accurate. Although the quote is correctly attributed, it is not based on fact, and it probably wasn't the best way to go about proving somebody is wrong. In hindsight, it derailed the thread, but now we are right back where we started.
This nonsense really needs to stop - I suppose you were being "fairly accurate" with your her rapist line which I'm grateful to Veg 1960 for posting again this morning?
I found another quote from Carrie Symonds on Sunday, which you later posted on here, that I didn't post a link to because I didn't think the statement she made was as conclusive as the one I used, but she said
"I feel I would know if Worboys had raped me that night. I’d have flashbacks or there would have been horrendous tell-tale signs when I woke the next day. But I will never truly know for sure what happened after he drugged me.” in an article for the Sunday Times which is referred to here;-
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/former-t...-john-worboys/
I hesitate to use this allusion because, if you have seen the film Twelve Angry Men, I fear you'll start to see yourself as Henry Fonda to my Lee J Cobb and this could drag on for weeks, but if you were on a jury and you were faced with statements from the alleged victim saying that they were 99.9 per cent sure the offence in question had not been committed on them and another saying they felt they would know if it had been even though they cannot say for certain that it wasn't, are you seriously saying that you would be voting guilty - bearing in mind that you need to be sure beyond any reasonable doubt that the offence had been committed?
I said yesterday that, as far as I'm concerned, you crossed a line in this thread and no amount of spin, manipulation and innuendo from you will change my mind on that - from now on, I hope I can show the same amount of restraint as Cyril has done and ignore you as successfully as he has.
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
John Worboys: Victim Carrie Symonds' story
At the age of 19, Carrie Symonds was one of John Worboys' youngest victims.
My initial observations were based on the Telegraph article, which used the words Worboys and victim in the title and within the article, and that gave the impression that she was a victim of Worboys. The article never said anything about "99.9% nothing happened"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nds-story.html
I know exactly what I wrote, so no amount of posting selective lines out of context is going to change that. I was referring to the 99.9% nothing happened quote that two people used to prove I was wrong. It's a quote that is logically incorrect, and you have to read what I said in that context. If they were adamant I was wrong, then they must have believed the quote to be true, which would have the side-effect making Worboys innocent in their minds.
There is a lot of effort to discredit me here and nobody has said a word about the motives of the Guardian, so I reckon you are all a bunch of biased political hacks. So you can all feck off with the Cardinal Richelieu "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him" shit. You have all shown your true colours and you are only interested in playing the man and not the ball. If any of you had any balls you would be condemning the Guardian and not me.
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
I said yesterday that, as far as I'm concerned, you crossed a line in this thread
The only person who has crossed the line in this thread is Heisenburg, who has crossed the equator with his public threats. I don't see you condemning his actions and he even used your faulty justification to declare that I was wrong. So a free pass to Heisenburg and the Guardian, while you discredit the person who wouldn't join in with your attacks on Boris. That just about sums up this thread!
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wales-Bales
The only person who has crossed the line in this thread is Heisenburg, who has crossed the equator with his public threats. I don't see you condemning his actions and he even used your faulty justification to declare that I was wrong. So a free pass to Heisenburg and the Guardian, while you discredit the person who wouldn't join in with your attacks on Boris. That just about sums up this thread!
There is no doubt a pack mentality which losers the momentum of the arguments as it takes on a personal attack .
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Veg1960
"But Boris was calm, and he was trying to cool things down. His partner was probably stressed out after hearing a few hours earlier that her rapist had just admitted drugging and raping 4 more girls."
"nobody actually knows what happened, which is what I have been saying all along."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Veg1960
"I knew you would be along to offer Bob support in his quest to declare John Worboys innocent."
"Not accusing anybody of defending anyone"
Oh dear
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eric Cartman
Oh dear
Yes, just some more out of context bollocks as per usual, it's all they've got. The dopey tw@t thinks he's Cardinal Richelieu :biggrin:
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
the other bob wilson
This nonsense really needs to stop - I suppose you were being "fairly accurate" with your her rapist line which I'm grateful to Veg 1960 for posting again this morning?
I found another quote from Carrie Symonds on Sunday, which you later posted on here, that I didn't post a link to because I didn't think the statement she made was as conclusive as the one I used, but she said
"I feel I would know if Worboys had raped me that night. I’d have flashbacks or there would have been horrendous tell-tale signs when I woke the next day. But I will never truly know for sure what happened after he drugged me.” in an article for the Sunday Times which is referred to here;-
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/former-t...-john-worboys/
I hesitate to use this allusion because, if you have seen the film
Twelve Angry Men, I fear you'll start to see yourself as Henry Fonda to my Lee J Cobb and this could drag on for weeks, but if you were on a jury and you were faced with statements from the alleged victim saying that they were 99.9 per cent sure the offence in question had not been committed on them and another saying they felt they would know if it had been even though they cannot say for certain that it wasn't, are you seriously saying that you would be voting guilty - bearing in mind that you need to be sure beyond any reasonable doubt that the offence had been committed?
I said yesterday that, as far as I'm concerned, you crossed a line in this thread and no amount of spin, manipulation and innuendo from you will change my mind on that - from now on, I hope I can show the same amount of restraint as Cyril has done and ignore you as successfully as he has.
One of my all-time favourite films. The tension is palpable, compounded by the setting, the heat/humidity/thunderstorms - some classic performances especially from Fonda and Cobb! (Sorry to go off topic BTW!).
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
One of my all-time favourite films. The tension is palpable, compounded by the setting, the heat/humidity/thunderstorms - some classic performances especially from Fonda and Cobb! (Sorry to go off topic BTW!).
It's a welcome diversion!
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gofer Blue
One of my all-time favourite films. The tension is palpable, compounded by the setting, the heat/humidity/thunderstorms - some classic performances especially from Fonda and Cobb! (Sorry to go off topic BTW!).
Yes the film was a smouldering brooding epic.
Along with Cape Fear the original one
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Re: Boris is human just bagged a load of man votes
And Clockwork Orange left profound thoughts with me as a youngster .