I don’t normally go in the Ninian but despite the large number of entrances, only 9 was being used. Is that usual?
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C'mon people, I know we're all disappointed but seems that so many are ready to rush towards negativity.
Giggs is almost definitely Wales' most expensive manager of all time and as a small nation it's highly unlikely that we can continue to pay him and employ a new manager. I don't think Page is the man, and think money needs to be spent on his supporting case to give him the best chance, but I accept our options are limited and recognise how well he's done to keep momentum going.
Next we're moaning about the players? Okay, some clearly have limitations but most of them are a group who flew to Kazan and back having spent the summer flying to Baku and back. They've literally put in the miles to get our support - support which previously has got them playing above their usual standards - and the Estonian keeper won't have a better day this year.
Klopp described Liverpool fans as journey hunters recently. Our journey has become more difficult tonight and it's bitterly disappointing, but it's roughly 10 years since Earnshaw's bad miss at Wembley which really is the day Together Stronger was born and we're so much better for it.
A lot of hard work to develop things in preparation for two big away games, and then two big home games where it's our job to fill up the CCS.
A pretty sh*t return for Welsh football at the CCS but our job is to be good supporters and push us forward even though the difficult moments. Who's up for supporting the Welsh women's team when they play at CCS next?
Next chance to support Wales/Cymru at the CCS: https://www.faw.cymru/en/wales/match...-october-2021/
Oh look, it's against Estonia as well. Chance to put it right? :wales:
Being completely rational and objective, coming second to Belgium (if we can manage it) was probably the most likely outcome.
Drawing to Estonia wasn't.
If we don't manage to get through the qualifying stages, I feel like it's about time the FAW cast their net a little bit wider when looking for a manager. The philosophy of hiring from within has undoubtedly worked wonders. I just can't help but think there have been occasions when we probably could have expected a little more from the team, and that this might be in some part down to managerial know-how.
I get the feeling sometimes that you could stick any Welsh, former pro in that position and the team spirit and raw talent of the team would carry them through...... to a certain extent. I do wonder though how far we could go if the inate abilities of the players and group were accompanied by some real managerial nous.
I'm not just saying this after tonight's game either. I though the Euros performances were generally a bit lightweight and desperate on the whole.
He missed that chance because Wilson's a decent player by Championship standards, but that's about it. He's nowhere near as good as he and some of his supporters believe him to be.
There was a time, fairly recently, when those who rate Harry Wilson were suggesting he was worth £20 million, £25 million or even £30 million. Fulham paid £12 million and I believe they got done by Jurgen Klopp. I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this, but I don't think Wilson will ever be a Premier League regular. The Championship is his level.
Why on earth was Williams brought on ahead of Johnson? One's a Championship regular, the other plays for Swindon ffs! Why did Morrell and Allen play the full 90 AGAIN? Why was Roberts picked up front? Desperately poor.
A massive missed opportunity tonight and some strange calls again by Page. Williams should never have come on for Wilson and he should’ve also had the bottle to take him off around the 70 min mark imo but he didn’t. It’s a shame we’re in the position we’re in with Page as we can’t move on from him or appoint anyone else whilst the Giggs stuff hangs over us so I don’t see why Twitter etc is calling for it - unfortunately we’re with him until the campaign is over now. I don’t think anyone thinks he’d be in charge had Giggs pleaded guilty and lost his job a year ago. It is what it is though and hopefully we can sneak through the play offs.
Really disappointing but we’ve had worse days in fairness. Still well within our grasp to qualify and it’ll go down to the wire with the play offs but it’s all so flat at the moment. A bit of Bale magic or nothing. It doesn’t bode well for when he retires as no one seems to be stepping up at all which is a worry.
No late winner to paper over Welsh attacking limitations this time – a really bad night.
Young attackers still not doing enough as Keiffer Moore is badly missed.
http://mauveandyellowarmy.net/
We are the famous Cardiff City and we’ve been to “Wemberly” 7 times. Twice in the 1920s v. Sheffield Utd and Arsenal. 5 times in recent years v. Pompey, Liverpool, Barnsley, Spurs (in the Premiership) and Blackpool.
I can only support one team like I am with my first and last wife. Following players like Joe Allen and Sam Vokes who celebrate like mad when they score against the City is something I cannot do. Have no time for plastics from Cardiff who support other club teams but for some reason still sympathise with Wales.
I want Wales to do well and cheer their successes. But Cardiff City come first for me any day.
There was a short video about 20mins before kick off but no teams announcements at all , what was that about ?
Thought Wales were better in the last 25mins but it reminded me a lot of Giggs' games before he discovered Moore. Some nice short passage of play with no end result. Looked distinctly toothless.
I thought Mark Harris posed much more of a threat than Roberts and should have started.
Few things that disappointed me last night, a few "fans" doing their best to boo loudly the players showing their stand against racism and discrimination; a group trying to get a Cardiff City chant going, and a lot of boos at the final whistle. It wasn't the best game, but given the ridiculous conditions around Sunday's game and the number of missing important players 4 points over the 2 games wasn't bad.
Looking forward to the playoff. We come up against a manager with slight tactical skills and we're ****ed.
Was awful and has been terrible recently apart from the Turkey performance.
We basicslly wasted the first half practicing our passing and keeping possesion against a team who are happy to give it up. I know there were injuries but its not good enough.
This passing philosophy isnt going to get us anywhere as any decent team we are coming up against are going to do it better, plus Allen and Morrell arent good enough. We have good ball carriers in the forward positions and shpuld be utilising that. The passing was so slow that by the time the ball got to anyone decent they were covered.
We should have won the game but its been poor under Page for long enough.
I think his stubborn attitude towards older players left is massively short for options in this squad. I said it before but dont tell me that Vokes or Evans wouldnt have offered more than Colwill or Roberts playing out of position.
Sam Vokes wouldn't, he wasn't particularly impressive when he was in his 20s nevermind now. I assume you're on about Ched? He's not worth the hassle and at 32 (33 in December) isn't a realistic long term option anyway
Harris should have started both games, he's the only recognised striker in the squad.
Its not a long term option of course not but they are more like for like with moore. These games are now. Especially when teams are going to flood the middle and you have to try and get something in the box to work a chance. Yes we did manage to get through the middle a couple of times but we didnt create enough. Page saying had enough chances to win 2 games is trying to cover his own tracks.
Agreed we should have won last night, and had the chances to do so. I think we will win away in Estonia as they'll be forced to come at us more and leave more gaps. I fancy us to perform better in October and November than these recent early season performances.
Last night's result really heaps pressure on the net round of fixtures. There's no room for more slip ups now if we want a decent draw in the playoffs. We could have gone into that 2 points clear of the Czechs with a game in hand, now we have to get something away in Prague and go and beat Estonia away in the space of 3 days
Very true, a win yesterday would have meant a point away in the Czech Republic and we wouldn’t need to worry about getting anything from the Belgium game to come 2nd, now there is pressure on to come away with a min 4 points from those 2 games. Estonia were not very good, we should beat them at home even if it’s only by one goal
100% agree that Giggs should have done the honorable thing and put Wales first. I think it's a fair reflection of the match and performance but I do feel you're being very charitable in describing Page as being 'limited tactically'.
I came home really disappointed with everyone and I'm not even convinced Moore could have saved that managerial performance. Let's face it, Bale got him out of jail against Belarus. But talking of Bale, I watched him off the ball last night and I was struck by just how unfit he looks. In the first half, he made a run down the right flank with a burst of slowish speed by his standards which beat an average Estonian RB(?) to make a cross which was poor. There were roughly 20 mins on the clock. I'm pretty sure the cameras wouldn't have picked him out bent over, hands on knees, recovering whilst play is happening in the centre of the park (did they?). That's 20 mins in.
In the second half, I can't recall a single right flank attack (and if there was I must have blinked) because the second half consisted of a rinse and repeat festival of football consisting of an 'attack' which went: Ward to Ampadu to Davies to James and then something involving Williams falling over or an Estonian making a mistake only for MOM IMO Hein to pull off an obscenely brilliant save.
Morell shouldn't be in a Wales squad (4 loan spells from Bristol City to Sutton, Margate, Cheltenham and Lincoln) before heading off to Luton and ending up with Portsmouth. In that time he's scored 3 goals over all clubs between 2013 - 2021. He's made 21 senior appearances for Wales since 2019! How?
I really feel for Vaulks.
Estonia made 5 substitutions (2 @ 20mins to go when they were knackered and we made none in that same period). Page made 2 (one forced because of Wilson's injury but chose to bring on a Swindon player who was released by Cardiff City) and Harris for Roberts. One of the Estonian subs was @ 30 mins in.
Yes, I think you're being very charitable in describing Page as 'limited tactically'. I think the man's an awful manager and typifies everything I dislike about the FAW's current approach. The match against Denmark should have been his last.
obviously meant LB(?)Quote:
beat an average Estonian RB(?)
I disagree about Vaulks; we have a way of playing that he wouldn't manage. I'm not enamoured with Morrell either but he's been brought through the system and can trap a ball most of the time.
The players who should be taking his place in the long run are Levitt and Smith (it looks like Ampadu will become a centre half) but are probably deemed to be too inexperienced at present. It's not ideal but there it is. Our conveyor belt runs a little slower most of the time.
Bale's fitness has been discussed for a while. He's been burning those hamstrings off for 16 years but still managed to burst through to hit the post near the end. This was the rusty international break too.
Edit: It's not often you see a sub subbed but Williams should've been taken off; he was being bullied out of everything.
Even Roberts was making runs early on and I thought looked lively until 15 minutes when a hologram took his place. It didn't come off but they completely stopped trying after rattling the Estonian CBs. There were acres of space early on and they were there for the taking. We had plenty of subs to play and fresh legs to start the match against a side like Estonia at Cardiff.
I can't help feeling we could have rested an aging Bale and Allen until the second half (if needed), started with Harris, and rotated a rested midfield who are quick and lively. Page had so many better options and a more than adequate bench after a long trip and tough win a few days earlier. We were playing the minnows at home and bottled it.
I agree with Bluebirdman that he should have subbed the sub, probably at 50 mins when we really needed a goal. Some managers are indecisive. He was found wanting against Denmark so shouldn't have been allowed to manage vital WCQs after that match.
Agree apart from Williams who I never want to see in a Wales squad again. He just doesn't need to be there and in my view, doesn't deserve to be anymore. I'm so not a sentimentalist and Gunter should have been hooked to give us some attacking options on the right (yes I know he put Wilson through early on but was poor after that. Estonia weren't a threat on either flank - we could have played a completely different formation halfway through the first half when they'd been worked out.
I dont understand this blooding of youth in qualifying matches. We need to have players who have scored at international level available from the bench.
Surely Chester, Vaulks, Andy King, Tom Laurence, Vokes, Robson-Kanu and Ched Evan's would be better options?
King should be starting instead of Morrell.
Vaulks can't control or pass the ball, Lawrence was injured, Vokes was never particularly impressive when he was in his prime, never mind now, Robson-Kanu doesn't have a club, Evans isn't worth the trouble picking him would bring. King I think should be in there though, Chester I suppose can't be relied upon fitness wise
We had the players in the squad to win, they weren't properly utilised by Page
For much of that game it was almost as if we'd convinced ourselves we'd need to be patient to the extent we just waited for things to happen, rather than imposing ourselves but staying calm if they proved resilient.
It's kind of weird because I know what you mean but we certainly didn't seem calm and did everything at 100mph except have a plan to impose ourselves. A lot of throw-ins, free-kicks, were rushed and there didn't seem to be any training-ground moves on show.
I was going to ask a general question about Sheehan and found this piece in The Bolton News.