Hmm, not sure that answered my question. Let's try again. Do the EU control our borders? Yes or no will suffice.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris
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Hmm, not sure that answered my question. Let's try again. Do the EU control our borders? Yes or no will suffice.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris
your moving out of the sinking ship are you :hehe: i wonder why :hehe:, dont talk out out of your rectum then :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
Can the immigration haters explain how we are going to fund our ever growing elderly population without immigration?
no. :thumbup: there is no control a passport will suffice :thumbup:, failing that getting in the back of a 40 foot container lorry heading for dover, portsmouth, southampton or any port should suffice .:thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Shit, how big's your garden?Quote:
Originally Posted by chris
by posting a shit load of emojis on a mb of a team they hate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearcey3
So, the EU do not control our borders. Glad we agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris
A passport will let someone into the country. It would be a bit of a problem if they didn't.
A 40 ft lorry can contain illegal immigrants, that is true.
So far you've come up with 3 comments that don't link up. Can you tell me how leaving the EU would stop illegal immigrants from trying to get into the country on a lorry and how our non-EU controlled borders would become non-EU controlled borders?
i think i have made enough points on been anti immigration as it is now without stricter controls without turning this into another ten pager :hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
everybody will have their own opinion across the country, but it is no coincidence as time goes on, that eventually more and more people will realise that if you keep letting people in without the necessary resources, the bubble will eventually burst. :thumbup:
Maybe for every immigrant we take in, we could ship out someone?Quote:
Originally Posted by chris
:hehe:Quote:
Originally Posted by TH63
Do we get the chance to nominate those who will be thrown out?
The thing is you haven't actually made one point, all you've done is post superlative made up nonsense. You've not argued on counter point either merely posted a laughing smiley every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris
There are arguments for less immigration yet you've not managed to make one sensible one.
People like you actually show why immigration is a good thing, I have much more in common with a polish, French, Italian, Syrian etc. Who isn't a complete empty headed xenophobe like you.
I'm not leaving a sinking ship I love the uk and will move back eventually, it's a great country and one thing that makes it great is how we've always been a caring country and how the the whole culture of the country has been shaped by other cultures throughout its whole history.
It has nothing to do with ethnicity its to do with money. If someone is employing an illegal immigrant he can pay him less than the minimum wage and the illegal is not going to complain, because if he does he will get arrested and probably deported and the employer will deny he ever employed him.Quote:
Originally Posted by adz-a32
Therefore there is nothing for the auhorities to investigate. So the person who the emlloyer would otherwise need to employ to do the work is not employed and is entitled , quite rightly to job seekers allowance family support or whatever benefits fall due to him.
If the employer paid less than the minimum wage to a legal worker that worker could complain, which is why he doesn't employ him.
That sounds more of an employment law problem rather than immigration. If these complaines are employing people cash in hand and paying lower than minimum wage that's the real problem. You can't blame the non British citizen for taking the job that they need, you have to blame whoever is offering the job.
In 99% of jobs this would be impossible anyway, you can only get this in the few cash in hand jobs that are illegally available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
Pity the poor pensioners, that'll be the first thing that's cut off.
Pensioners need economic migration more than most as otherwise our top heavy population won't be making enough through tax to pay pensions.
Also pensioners will never be the first to be cut off as they vote.
Melt them and Chris into glue.Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
National health service freed up to look after healthy people
Win Win .
This is my experience of debates with lots of people who are anti-immigration - start questioning things and they have no answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
That would be the thickest glue ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy the Jock
With respect the same applies to the pro immigration lobby. I am fairly neutral on the subject but would like to hear from the pro immigration people in the IN Campaign how the points I made in my earlier post can be answered. Whether IN or OUT of the EU immigration will rise so I would like to know from the IN Campaign about the plans they have for building houses, hospitals, training GPs and Doctors as well as other essential services to cope with an influx that will rise by at least 3 million within the next 10 years. As flaky as the OUT Campaign is I really think the same applies to those advocating REMAIN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
I'm sure there are reasons to want controlled immigration but too many people have been blindly lead into being completely anti immigration by the media. Immigration is a really good tool to cover up actual problems because of humans being naturally territorial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
Chris is just a genuine simpleton though.
We do need slightly stricter rules on immigration but it isn't as big an issue as is being made out. A lot of skilled migrants are necessary to fill those roles you mention so being completely anti immigration while stressing those points is a bit of a misnomer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindec
What's an immigration hater?, is someone who feels that, there should be a little bit better control of immigration fall into your sweeping statement an immigration hater?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearcey3
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
here is the issue i have, how many are SKILLED ? ? ?
we are told the NHS would collapse if it wasnt for the immigrants, would it ? ? ? a small % go and work for the NHS, lets be honest here, alot of the immigrants ( economic ) are un / semi skilled and end up in the service industry
I am sure most of the " anti immigration camp " would agree with the need for SKILLED workers to do jobs that either the UK cannot do or choose not to do ( which if they choose not begs the question why ? ? ) this has never been the issue
the issue is the unskilled people walking around town with nothing to do, I am going to Bournemouth this weekend, 2 people have warned me about the immigrants wandering around the town, by all accounts B-mouth has a issue with them at the mo
......except the majority of immigrants from the EU are either unskilled or low skilled. The skilled immigrants - doctors, computer scientists etc come mainly from countries outside the EU and should of course be welcomed with open arms. However, the main problem is with immigration from countries within the EU which we cannot control.Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
There was only 150,000 net immigration from inside the eu last year according to the link in the OP is that really a huge issue? Genuine question, it doesn't seem a huge issue with a country with a population of 65 million.
Where are you getting all this information and statistics from? How do you know this? Or is it all anecdotal like your Bournemouth opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by blue matt
SufficeQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric the Half a Bee
would a doctor who has come over from a EU country really be serving me in Wagamama's ?? ? ( a meal we had 2 weeks ago, where we spoke to 3 members of staff and all 3 were eastern European ) or Franky and Benny's ( a meal we had last Sunday where 4 out of 5 who interacted with us were eastern European, the other was Chinese as it happens ) , yes its anecdotal, I wonder if we have had a scientific study on the amount from eastern europe who are really doctors but chose to work serving me a fantaQuote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
as for the B-mouth, i havent seen it, i will be happy to comment on it after this weekend, but i guess what i see with my owns eyes will far too anecdotal for you so will not matter
I don't understand your problem with foreign people working in basic service jobs here? There isn't a shortage of Service jobs, they aren't jobs most British citizens want full time hence why they are filled with immigrants with plenty of part time shifts filled by students.
Something isn't anecdotal if you've seen it yourself btw.
If you honestly think there only a few jobs in UK that can be paid cash in hand you are either blind or stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
This has nothing to do with race or immigration, it is about benefits and avoid paying the minimum wage. fault on both sides. you go to any "One man band" house building site in S Wales and I'd put money there are people there taking cash in hand. i have even known men disappear with the boss's blessing on a Thursday morning to "Sign on". you could list jobs like these all day. black and white taxis with one registered driver that is driving 24/7 by other non-licenced drivers. People odd-jobbing around places, keeping up richer folks' large gardens, crop pickers, (Maybe not in S Wales :hehe:) window cleaners, people collecting and selling-on pallets, fly-tippers etc. etc.
There are literally thousands of jobs like this "on the black' as they used to say. Part of the reason for it is that people who are on benefits who find employment immediately have certain benefits stopped, so instead of being idle they go and find a 'job-on'the'side' to augment their income. A dodgy builder would rather pay a benefit claiming brick layer 50 quid a day than pay him the rate he would get legit.
Because of the nature of this kind of work it attracts people who do not have the necessary papers to get a work permit and so the process is perpetuated.
It's not nice and it aint pretty but it is a fact of life in UK and has been for many many years. All the shouts of "Its a MW enforcement problems' and the wringing of hands will never stop it. As long as there is work to be done there will be someone who for some reason is prepared to do it cheaper.
Also I'd like to point the irony of going to a Japanese and Italian chain restaurant and complaining about being served by foreigners.
Even if the figures are as low as you quote there are issues underlying the numbers quoted that show that the long term trend is unsustainable unless governments plan for the influx in a more considered way. Further analysis of the figures shows the situation is potentially more serious according to the BBC (link below) which if anything leans towards REMAIN despite its supposedly neutral stance. Some points which seem relevant are:Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
1. That 270,000 EU citizens moved to the UK for at least a year in 2015, up from 264,000 in 2014. The number of non-EU citizens moving to the UK was 277,000, down from 287,000 in 2014.
2. One really interesting figure, that doesn't affect the population headcount - officially at least - is the 110,000 rise in short-term immigration to about 1.2m. More people are coming for less than a year - such as short contract workers selected by employers who are looking internationally for the best people at the most competitive price.
3. The ONS state that estimated employment level of EU nationals (excluding British) living in the UK was 2.1 million in January to March 2016 - 224,000 higher than the same quarter last year, according to the Labour Force Survey
4. There were 630,000 National Insurance number registrations by EU nationals in the year to March 2016, an increase of 1,000 on the previous year. For non-EU nationals, there were 195,000 registrations, an increase of 2,000 on the previous year.
5. The article is here......................http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36382199
Now if somebody can convince me that these numbers are not of concern especially in the longer term I am all ears. There is absolutely no point in putting our heads in the sands by saying the numbers are not significant as they clearly have implications - serious ones - for infrastructure including the NHS and schools etc. We even have 10000 overseas nationals in our prisons which we are unable to deport all of which come at a cost.
The essential issue is that we need better control and we cannot do that while remaining in the EU. Of course the IN/OUT debate is wider than immigration but you can't blame the OUT Campaign for concentrating on immigration as that is their one trump card.
It still fail to see how any of this is the fault of immigrants, menial cash in hand jobs have been going on forever in this country and would still be going on without immigrants.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Are you really saying that the people collecting and selling on pallets and fly tipping are keeping People out of a job?
Why do you do that?Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
Of course we can get better control whilst being in the eu, it just needs a decent government to do it.
Everyone no matter how pro immigration they might be understands that whilst other borders in the world exist we need to control ours. Being in or out of the EU isn't the end of this issue either way, we need a strong government who put sensible controls in place.
As I've said before there are many reasons for being pro or anti eu but immigration is a minor one compared to bigger issues.
So the numbers are of concern?Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
You said this before and I asked what you meant but don't think I had a reply. What do you mean? Are you suggesting the uk is the only country in the world that has completely uncontrolled immigration?Quote:
Originally Posted by ninianclark
pensions will be virtually obsolete in 20 - 30 years time apart from the very well off:thumbup:, much can be said of most of the welfare state, the retirement age will rise to 70 plus. this country cannot employ enough young people of workable age now, immigration on the scale it is now, will only compound the problem :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede
That's the criminal employers fault, not the worker. So in the case you've given, the employer is taking advantage of the situation and not abiding by the law. Whether of not the worker was from Cardiff or Berlin or Athens or Sydney, this would still be the case, it wouldn't be the workers fault at all. You are blaming the wrong people.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsnaggle
Yet,. once again, these are un / semi skilled people who would never pass the Australian points system entry ( which has been discussed in this thread ) as i said in my previous post, most anti-immigration folk wouldnt mind if the immigrants were skilled and we needed that skill, its fairly easy to understandQuote:
Originally Posted by rudy gestede