How many have you encoutered?
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was he shot by " BAD Lowly paid civil servant meathead bobby's with superiority-complex who chose a career in policing in order to assert their authority over others " ( in C.C words )
or
shot by Officers who made mistakes at a time of heightened security worries after the July London bombings and being mistaken for one of the Failed bombers from the day before
I am of the belief it was the 2nd statement
The second, but I'm not sure how it helps your argument. If officers who were, presumably, selected to be armed because of their strong abilities can make fatal errors in stressful and difficult situations - doesn't it seem logical that weaker officers would make similar mistakes more often?
I can't tell you the exact figure because I haven't been counting and I can't be arsed explaining the bad encounters to some boob on the internet who has trouble reading complete sentences and gets the hump when you point out how he's an idiot.
So you're welcome to carry on believing that everybody trusts the police 100%, there are no bad apples in the force and nobody has ever had a bad experience with them, including me.
This may not be the thread for humour, but there is no way this cop doesnt shoot himself in the foot at least twice a day if he was armed..
Hot Fuzz 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lb44qX3yl0
the mistakes were made from the top down, not just the guys who took the shots, i am sure you must have read the report
since that fatal day the procedure's for taking the shot have changed ( surprised you have read about it )
you mention weaker officers, the rules of combat could be set fairly easy, a guy is coming towards you with a knife, take the shot, a guy with a knife is stabbing someone, give the warning and then if they do not stop, take the shot
the more technical stuff, as in the case of Jean de Menzies would still be carried out by specialist teams, you appear ( i guess on purpose ) be confusing the two, a specialist FA officers and a armed Police Officer just using his gun for protection and to stop terrorist activities, once again, body cams will tell us the story and the police will learn from that
I am in agreement with you as in I wouldn't want all our police to be armed, but your barbed comments toward them seem to be a bit ott. You've obviously had a bad/some bad experiences with plod, which is your business, but they do a thankless job.
Can you imagine what it's like to be a copper involved in social riots, or having to control hundreds of Neanderthals at football grounds up and down the country, or finding dead bodies, dead babies, smashed up teenagers in RTA's, etc.?
We all know that corruption and bullying takes place in all walks of life, but no amount of cash would persuade me to join the fuzz in this day and age. Just be thankful that there are youngsters out there who still want to join.
I guess when you make a mistake, you post a picture of a lorry getting stuck under a bridge on a haulage companies FB page, yet these Police officers in the case of Jean de Menzies made a mistake the day after a failed bombing attempt and shot the wrong guy, mistakes were made, the whole procedure has been tightened up, yet we know they will make a mistake again, people do
so thats another bad mark against the " BAD Lowly paid civil servant meathead bobby's with superiority-complex who chose a career in policing in order to assert their authority over others " Eh
I think you're missing the point (perhaps on purpose) that arming all police officers is a turning point, there's no going back once it's done. So the gun is just there for protection and to stop terrorists - how many times will an average officer come across a terrorist? None of the police officers I know have ever been in a situation where they have needed a gun for protection.
You talk about someone being stabbed with a knife - I'm sure you remember (perhaps you forgot on purpose) the 'you ain't no muslim bruv' incident. The police successfully tasered him. Didn't need a gun. Otherwise, yesterday's terrorist attacked with a car. Arming officers isn't going to stop that exceedingly rare occurence.
If anything, the fact that the guy resorted to using a car and a knife rather than a bomb and an automatic is a testament to the good work done by our intelligence services. That's our best weapon, prevention, not chasing after them with a gun after the event.
the " you aint no muslim bruv " incident took place in london, where more carry tazers ( due to the training ) if it had been in Bath, Salisbury or Yeovil, they would not have had a tazer
The terrorist is changing, it used to be the IRA and a bomb, it is no some nutter with a knife or machete, as i mentioned in this threat, the bloke next door had to use a tazer at the start of the year ( he is one of the few trained to use it on his shout ) , the guy had a meat cleaver and was coming at Officers, if he hadnt been close, it could well have ended with a officer killed
My point is that i think that arming more police ( then ultimately all ) would give the police a even playing field to do the job they need to do
so you know " that giving firearms to the entire police force would do more harm than good ", How do you know that ? ? ? ?? how can you know that ? ? ??
This 100%
Its like the American idea of counteracting guns is to allow more people access to guns, its mental. That can only end up badly.
This is an interesting read.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ain?CMP=twt_gu
No amount of guns on the streets will stop someone targeting a group of people with a car as a weapon.
Well you've already had one example with the Menezes incident. A police officer is killed with a knife and you want to give guns to thousands of people and yet an innocent man is shot by police and you've got all manner of excuses for it.
You're just inviting a police state under which the general public would be completely unable to counter. We're already under surveillance, our rights to congregate and protest are getting curtailed and I don't see arming the police as a good thing for everyday folk in the long run.
I think the difference here is that you feel like you can trust the police force and the government to always do the right thing by the people whereas I think that is naive.
Also, if thousands of new firearms start flooding in some of them will find their way into the hands of criminals. Corruption exists within the police force whether you like it or not. The moment one of these criminals uses a gun on someone, the whole experiment of arming the police would have failed.
Again, I urge you to ask the police officers you know if they 100% trust every officer they've met with a firearm, you might just find that they've probably all come across some of the more hot-headed members of the force who shouldn't be trusted with that kind of responsibility, with or without training.
Gave up on the thread somewhat when Carediffi and Tandy were butting heads to satisfy their ego's but I am surprised there hasn't been more mention of arming the police with taser's.Certainly not in favour of arming them fully but may be time they all carried a taser.
Reel him in:hehe::hehe:
I am sure you know the answer, as i have mentioned it earlier but i will play along
they do, it is a example, to counter yours of being in london, the trained officers ( normally AR trained officers ) in Bath, Salisbury or Yeovil ( i.e outside bigger cities and espeically london ) could very well be 30 mins away, In London they are not due to the fact that MORE Officers are trained to use them, ( in the days of staff being cut and forces Sharing resources the times can be greater than 30 mins )
Not my excuses, they made mistakes, procedures have been changed, they hope that they will stop incidents like Jean de Menzies happening, which was almost 12 years ago, maybe the changes have worked ?? ?
and here we have the issue, the paranoia, Oh the goverment want us to be under a police state, they are spying on us, i dont want my rights taken away etc etc you carry on with that, i will just live my life and see where it goes :wave: if they want to know i am going surfing in a few weeks time, fine, if they want to know i am on my holidays again to the US, no drama, hell they can even see the pictures on FB if they want
i do trust the police in the way they attempt to keep me safe, solving crimes and trying to keep the bad people ( you know, the real bad people ) at bay, sure we have corrupt people, but every way of life does, naive ? ? ? maybe
really, you think police guns will be floating around the pubs :hehe: yea right
I will, it will be tomorrow, i thought we were going for a Coffee today, it wasnt, its tomorrow, but as i said, whatever his reply, you will not believe him, as you already have all the facts about the Police
I posted a link earlier which appears to have been overlooked.
Couple of years ago in New York, a guy with a gun shot and killed his former boss, police responded by shooting him dead and managed to hit NINE innocent bystanders.
Terrorist and other gun related incidents are thankfully very rare in this country, nigh on unheard of in our fair city, and while I'd support the use of armed officers at high profile events e.g. The champions league final, arming all officers as a matter of course seems to be an overreaction borne out of understandable emotion.
I'm sure if you asked "regular" police officers if they wanted guns, many would say no.