Gary Madine [or anyone who will see him before the morning]..

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

However, unlike at other times when we have been chasing promotion down the years, there has been an attitude in this thread and in others since Friday's match that criticism of the manager, team (individually or collectively) and club is disloyal and that, somehow, us supporters will be to blame if we miss out on promotion - all of this on a board where earlier in the season you'd do well to get ten contributions to a match thread while the game was being played and a football thread on a non match day was something of a novelty.

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Couldn't agree more with this, however it started before Friday as you'll see from this thread:

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php...ight=emjayblue

I had the cheek to suggest that given their form, and the way the play Fulham could well be above us given our respective fixtures over the next three games and got slaughtered for putting forward such a viewpoint. However, to me the evidence was there all along.

Well, I guess the reality of the situation now is an eye opener for the vast majority of the posters in this thread as I suggested at the time as if we don't beat Villa tomorrow, we will indeed be in third place as I don't expect them to slip up against Reading.

There is none as blind as those that don't see.

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Originally Posted by emjayblue

Couldn't agree more with this, however it started before Friday as you'll see from this thread:

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php...ight=emjayblue

I had the cheek to suggest that given their form, and the way the play Fulham could well be above us given our respective fixtures over the next three games and got slaughtered for putting forward such a viewpoint. However, to me the evidence was there all along.

Well, I guess the reality of the situation now is an eye opener for the vast majority of the posters in this thread as I suggested at the time as if we don't beat Villa tomorrow, we will indeed be in third place as I don't expect them to slip up against Reading.

There is none as blind as those that don't see.

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You seem to be almost willing a Fulham victory, and City defeat, just to be proven right :shrug:

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

You seem to be almost willing a Fulham victory, and City defeat, just to be proven right :shrug:

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It is a fact they will win mate. Stone cold hard facts here.

Slagging him off won't help, he looked devastated on Friday, however bad we felt he'll have felt 100x worse

Criticism is fine but some of it is getting OTT in my opinion, its almost like some people on here want us/him to fail just to say "I told you so"

I for one like Madine, I think he's a decent player and has provided some decent contributions in his limited time on the pitch, he's also pushed Zohore on who's performed far better since Madine's arrival

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Originally Posted by City123

Slagging him off won't help, he looked devastated on Friday, however bad we felt he'll have felt 100x worse

Criticism is fine but some of it is getting OTT in my opinion, its almost like some people on here want us/him to fail just to say "I told you so"

I for one like Madine, I think he's a decent player and has provided some decent contributions in his limited time on the pitch, he's also pushed Zohore on who's performed far better since Madine's arrival

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Exactly this. I hope to god the players don't read this board. The posters doing the criticising may well call themselves fans but they certainly are NOT supporters at the moment. There is a time and a place for wholly negative criticism which is after the event and after all is lost, NOT NOW!! It's completely and utterly damaging to the cause..!

I would warrant none of these people hold management positions, if they did they'd be getting absolutely shite results.. There's a reason you won't be seeing Warnock criticising the players right now. Disappointing to see posters like TOBW join in with this conceited bullshit TBH. The lot of you having a go whilst precluding any positivity cannot call yourselves supporters at the moment and should be ashamed to join with any celebrations should we succeed. Arseholes.

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Originally Posted by emjayblue

Couldn't agree more with this, however it started before Friday as you'll see from this thread:

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/showthread.php...ight=emjayblue

I had the cheek to suggest that given their form, and the way the play Fulham could well be above us given our respective fixtures over the next three games and got slaughtered for putting forward such a viewpoint. However, to me the evidence was there all along.

Well, I guess the reality of the situation now is an eye opener for the vast majority of the posters in this thread as I suggested at the time as if we don't beat Villa tomorrow, we will indeed be in third place as I don't expect them to slip up against Reading.

There is none as blind as those that don't see.

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But they aren’t above us at the moment, and may never be this season.
If we balls it up from now on in, then the team and management will be fair game.
What if Madine scores a few important goals on the run in?
I believe in getting behind the team and taking a crushing blow like Friday in our stride. As I said, if we blow it from now on in then that’s the time to let off some steam. Not now.

This team has been magnificent this season and deserve our unquestioned support until the last ball is kicked

All this I said , he said , I told you so crap is fecking pathetic and the sort of nonsense you would expect from a Liverpool fan based in Surrey

In other words a ****

Support the team full stop

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Originally Posted by Freitag 4.17

Exactly this. I hope to god the players don't read this board. The posters doing the criticising may well call themselves fans but they certainly are NOT supporters at the moment. There is a time and a place for wholly negative criticism which is after the event and after all is lost, NOT NOW!! It's completely and utterly damaging to the cause..!

I would warrant none of these people hold management positions, if they did they'd be getting absolutely shite results.. There's a reason you won't be seeing Warnock criticising the players right now. Disappointing to see posters like TOBW join in with this conceited bullshit TBH. The lot of you having a go whilst precluding any positivity cannot call yourselves supporters at the moment and should be ashamed to join with any celebrations should we succeed. Arseholes.

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The last thing I'd expect is to see Warnock criticising the players, but there is a difference between him and us and the thing I find really strange is that about 95% of the time (i.e. when we aren't coming to the end of a season where were challenging for automatic promotion) it's open house on here when it comes to slagging off our players - now, different rules seem to apply.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

The last thing I'd expect is to see Warnock criticising the players, but there is a difference between him and us and the thing I find really strange is that about 95% of the time (i.e. when we aren't coming to the end of a season where were challenging for automatic promotion) it's open house on here when it comes to slagging off our players - now, different rules seem to apply.

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Yes, different rules do very much apply right now, with good reason, can't you see that????

Whilst the penalty miss may have been the catalyst, my original post had more to do with my opinion of him as a player, from what I've seen in 6/7 matches. He doesn't win headers, he commits stupid fouls and gives away needless free kicks putting pressure back on our defence, and he looks short of pace - at least for the Championship. I'm not really sure why we bought him.

If you can't discuss your views on certain players on a message board -even if they aren't positive - then there really isn't much point in these boards at all..

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Whilst the penalty miss may have been the catalyst, my original post had more to do with my opinion of him as a player, from what I've seen in 6/7 matches. He doesn't win headers, he commits stupid fouls and gives away needless free kicks putting pressure back on our defence, and he looks short of pace - at least for the Championship. I'm not really sure why we bought him.

If you can't discuss your views on certain players on a message board -even if they aren't positive - then there really isn't much point in these boards at all..

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Addressing him personally with a train ticket back to Bolton is not discussing your views and not helpful to the cause in the slightest..! Just get behind the bloody team for a few more weeks and then grace us all with your tremendous, acerbic wit.. surely it can wait?

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Whilst the penalty miss may have been the catalyst, my original post had more to do with my opinion of him as a player, from what I've seen in 6/7 matches. He doesn't win headers, he commits stupid fouls and gives away needless free kicks putting pressure back on our defence, and he looks short of pace - at least for the Championship. I'm not really sure why we bought him.

If you can't discuss your views on certain players on a message board -even if they aren't positive - then there really isn't much point in these boards at all..

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Exactly!

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Whilst the penalty miss may have been the catalyst, my original post had more to do with my opinion of him as a player, from what I've seen in 6/7 matches. He doesn't win headers, he commits stupid fouls and gives away needless free kicks putting pressure back on our defence, and he looks short of pace - at least for the Championship. I'm not really sure why we bought him.

If you can't discuss your views on certain players on a message board -even if they aren't positive - then there really isn't much point in these boards at all..

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But starting the thread with train for madine isn't exactly hedging your bets is it , it's an uncalled for attack on a player at a time when we all have to stick together

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

Exactly!

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No there is being negative , having a point of view and just being an arse

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Originally Posted by Freitag 4.17

Addressing him personally with a train ticket back to Bolton is not discussing your views and not helpful to the cause in the slightest..! Just get behind the bloody team for a few more weeks and then grace us all with your tremendous, acerbic wit.. surely it can wait?

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Wasting your time mate

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Originally Posted by A Quiet Monkfish

Whilst the penalty miss may have been the catalyst, my original post had more to do with my opinion of him as a player, from what I've seen in 6/7 matches. He doesn't win headers, he commits stupid fouls and gives away needless free kicks putting pressure back on our defence, and he looks short of pace - at least for the Championship. I'm not really sure why we bought him.

If you can't discuss your views on certain players on a message board -even if they aren't positive - then there really isn't much point in these boards at all..

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Nope, doesn't win headers. As shown by the Sheffield game. #Awkward

He's won plenty of headers - often with no support, no runners. To "fans" that makes it Madines fault.

Stupid fouls - he's a physical striker. He's as fouled against as he fouls often doesn't get the decisions. If you want to castigate him for stupid fouls, well what about Grujic - lacks pace, as soon as someone goes past him Grujic either tries to grab the shirt or bring them down.

Short of pace? Well, that's a valid criticism. Plenty of "slow" strikers score goals. Madine scored 10 in a poor Bolton side. Some act like he's a bum; guess Zohore et al must be really shit given we've not a single player into double figures this season.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

No there is being negative , having a point of view and just being an arse

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You have lost me there sorry.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

You have lost me there sorry.

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It's not ****ing rocket surgery mate.

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Originally Posted by Freitag 4.17

Yes, different rules do very much apply right now, with good reason, can't you see that????

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No, honestly I can't - if Madine was playing in exactly the same manner and we were mid table with nothing to play for, then it would be okay to say what some are saying about him?

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Originally Posted by Bobby Dandruff

You have lost me there sorry.

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Suggesting Gary madine gets the train back to Bolton is not being negative , or having a point of view , it's being a complete arse

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

But starting the thread with train for madine isn't exactly hedging your bets is it , it's an uncalled for attack on a player at a time when we all have to stick together

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Well said Sludge.

It was the same after Sheffield. Had the doesnt win headers then as well. Ignoring the fecking header he won to get us the goal.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

You seem to be almost willing a Fulham victory, and City defeat, just to be proven right :shrug:

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Give it a rest fella, just because my viewpoint differed to yours, that's a cheap shot. I have little doubt Fulham will beat Reading but will be willing my club to victory in front of the box whilst other members of my family will be there in person at Villa Park.

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Originally Posted by SLUDGE FACTORY

Suggesting Gary madine gets the train back to Bolton is not being negative , or having a point of view , it's being a complete arse

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As a sentence, that makes it clearer.

Thanks for clarifying.

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Originally Posted by Freitag 4.17

It's not ****ing rocket surgery mate.

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No it isn't.

It is poor English and grammar which has since kindly been explained by Sludge, and I have thanked him for doing so.

You may want to calm down a bit! :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Hilts

Well said Sludge.

It was the same after Sheffield. Had the doesnt win headers then as well. Ignoring the fecking header he won to get us the goal.

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Players take time to settle , if anything criticism may be directed toward nw for picking gunnars who clearly isn't match fit but again what do I know about football management ?

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

No, honestly I can't - if Madine was playing in exactly the same manner and we were mid table with nothing to play for, then it would be okay to say what some are saying about him?

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Even if mid-table, it would still be a bit of an arsehole move to address that to somebody personally on a public forum, (the train thing). However, it would have zero chance of affecting anything to do with the success of the club.

As it stands, where we are, at best it adds nothing to the cause. At worst, if that post reaches the player I imagine it would cause a little resentment, I'd hope the player was professional enough to not let it bother him but there's a very small chance it causes a slight disconnect with the fans and demotivates the player.

Personally, this post by itself I doubt would have an effect, but an accumulation of these kind of posts could very well do that. It's potentially damaging at a time when we need every little tiny bit of help and positivity we can muster.. so yes, very different rules to when mid table.. again, can't believe you don't see that.

Too much importance being placed on posts on a messageboard me thinks.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Too much importance being placed on posts on a messageboard me thinks.

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:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Too much importance being placed on posts on a messageboard me thinks.

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Originally Posted by the other bob wilson

:thumbup:

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I would have agreed with you at one time, but having seen several references to the players reading these messageboards then I have to now disagree. I think these boards do influence the 'real' world to some extent.

What that means in terms of posting etiquette is a different matter and I think people should post what they think. However it wouldn't hurt to tone down some of the criticism a bit no matter how bad it hurts at the time.

I'm still in slight shock from Friday but refuse to blame either player for missing their penalty, and my personal view on Madine is that I think he was an intelligent buy as he fits in perfectly to the Zohore role if needed. He also brings other attributes including, in my view, a much greater threat in the air.

I'd actually quite like to see a Madine/Pilks combination tried up front as they seem to gel quite well on the pitch.

Anyway, onwards to the Villa match. Let's see if we can get anything from a match I'm not sure I can bear to watch...

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Too much importance being placed on posts on a messageboard me thinks.

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Yeah, but at least most of us are consistent with our viewpoints

I think we only win another 2. Don’t see us getting any wins from our remaining away games.(Quote)

As yours are changing day by day.

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Originally Posted by Penarth Blues

I would have agreed with you at one time, but having seen several references to the players reading these messageboards then I have to now disagree. I think these boards do influence the 'real' world to some extent.

What that means in terms of posting etiquette is a different matter and I think people should post what they think. However it wouldn't hurt to tone down some of the criticism a bit no matter how bad it hurts at the time.

I'm still in slight shock from Friday but refuse to blame either player for missing their penalty, and my personal view on Madine is that I think he was an intelligent buy as he fits in perfectly to the Zohore role if needed. He also brings other attributes including, in my view, a much greater threat in the air.

I'd actually quite like to see a Madine/Pilks combination tried up front as they seem to gel quite well on the pitch.

Anyway, onwards to the Villa match. Let's see if we can get anything from a match I'm not sure I can bear to watch...

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Exactly. Thank you for explaining this in a calmer, more conciliatory manner than I am able to.

To Bobby Dandruff and TOBW


Your responses to my posts have included such comments as "over the top" "censoring" "weird" "comical" etc etc.

In response

1. Aren't I allowed to comment if I feel that some things said about players are mistimed without being over the top

2. What part of "Of course players are not beyond criticism" which I made in one of my earliest posts in this thread do you really both not understand?

Monkfish are you a Scouser by any chance?

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Originally Posted by emjayblue

Yeah, but at least most of us are consistent with our viewpoints

I think we only win another 2. Don’t see us getting any wins from our remaining away games.(Quote)

As yours are changing day by day.

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That’s because I’m adapting my opinion AFTER witnessing the last 2 performances, FulhamJayBlue.


Are we not allowed to change our opinions as well now? On top of not being able to criticise players :shrug:

I’ll have to try that line of attack when I’m next down the bookies.

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Originally Posted by emjayblue

Yeah, but at least most of us are consistent with our viewpoints

I think we only win another 2. Don’t see us getting any wins from our remaining away games.(Quote)

As yours are changing day by day.

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My opinion of Madine hasn’t changed. I think he’s a journeyman, League 1 striker at best. If we paid 6m for him that’s 5.5m too much.

Anyone can miss a pen (although it was an awful one) but he’s shown nothing so far to suggest he’s worth anywhere near the fee we’ve paid for him.

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Originally Posted by Penarth Blues

I would have agreed with you at one time, but having seen several references to the players reading these messageboards then I have to now disagree. I think these boards do influence the 'real' world to some extent.

What that means in terms of posting etiquette is a different matter and I think people should post what they think. However it wouldn't hurt to tone down some of the criticism a bit no matter how bad it hurts at the time.

I'm still in slight shock from Friday but refuse to blame either player for missing their penalty, and my personal view on Madine is that I think he was an intelligent buy as he fits in perfectly to the Zohore role if needed. He also brings other attributes including, in my view, a much greater threat in the air.

I'd actually quite like to see a Madine/Pilks combination tried up front as they seem to gel quite well on the pitch.

Anyway, onwards to the Villa match. Let's see if we can get anything from a match I'm not sure I can bear to watch...

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I said this to my mate the other day, I think they'd work well together

I also think Zohore could work as a winger, to me he doesn't seem to have the poacher's instinct in front of goal, I have no doubt in my mind that he would not have scored the chance Pilkington scored from against Sheffield United

Did I miss Something??

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Originally Posted by ccfc_ex_squaddy

Did I miss Something??

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Yeah, Madine missed a pen but hit the target so he's not worthy of the shirt. Hoilett also missed and hit the cross bar but has avoided any criticism.

Apparently posting a link of a train ticket to Bolton for one of our players is normal criticism of a player that should just be accepted, and isn't overly harsh in any way.

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Originally Posted by dembethewarrior

Yeah, Madine missed a pen but hit the target so he's not worthy of the shirt. Hoilett also missed and hit the cross bar but has avoided any criticism.

Apparently posting a link of a train ticket to Bolton for one of our players is normal criticism of a player that should just be accepted, and isn't overly harsh in any way.

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Train ticket was harsh

Bethandmattsgrampy could give him a lift in his Volvo

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

Train ticket was harsh

Bethandmattsgrampy could give him a lift in his Volvo

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:hehe:

I remember something about that poster, memory isn't too good after years of killing brain cells mind.