Nigel Owen eggers ref demands football

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Not at all, and I've made more views than just the one you've quoted and taken offence at. To elaborate, rugby is a sport with more natural stoppages than football. It is also a sport where refereeing decisions are not held under scrutiny in front of millions of TV viewers every week, and where referees are blamed for teams losing big matches. These last two points are what I think is wrong with football - along with cheating.

The only arguments I have heard for its implementation in football are that it would "stamp out cheating" (no facts to back this up) and it would be interesting.

The referee already has the tools in place to stop dissent. The FA has the tools to punish cheating and diving.

As for Nigel Owens - he has no interest in football. This much is a fact. He's often spoken disparagingly about football and I don't think I've ever seen a comment from him that speaks of football positively. Does that invalidate his opinion? No. Is it the main thrust of our argument? No.

Rugby is a different game, there are more stoppages, there is less feigning of injury, it is more of a contact sport than football (hence feigning injury will get little reward). Losing a player in rugby is a stiffer penalty than in football.

The question is, why aren't refs tougher on players they catch cheating, or showing dissent, or time wasting? Why aren't the football associations tougher when looking at incidents missed by referees? And why do we have supreme confidence that the people who fail to "control" these behaviours with existing tools will get a better result from sin bins? I'd suggest that the use of sin bins would be selective (not applied to goalies, not applied to a player when a team mate is already there).

The refchat site has a forum where actual referees discuss the implementation of this in their leagues.

If I have time later, I will dig out the pages that I was reading.

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You may have made your views clear more than once, however, you suggested that many other had too -

"in fact those arguing against the sin bin are mainly giving reasons why it won't work"

As I have said, at that point I have seen hardly anyone, if anyone at all, giving reasons why sin bins won't work.

I was not offended in any way by the view that you stated, in case this was bothering you. I do look forward to all of the comments by fans, players and referees that you referred to saying how much they have hated the sin bin experiment in the lower leagues that have tried it. Because, try as I might, I could not find any at all.

I'm sure they're all there though.

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

The refchat site has a forum where actual referees discuss the implementation of this in their leagues.

If I have time later, I will dig out the pages that I was reading.

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Had a quick look myself, the only thread I could find was this one.

https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/sin-bins.11464/

Six posts, one ref was in favour but two weren't 'massive fans'. No sign of the word hate, very tame. No mention of the fans or the players views either, I guess they'd be on the fanchat and playerchat sites? Looking forward to reading the thread you saw, it sounds vitriolic.

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Originally Posted by Nick

You may have made your views clear more than once, however, you suggested that many other had too -

"in fact those arguing against the sin bin are mainly giving reasons why it won't work"

As I have said, at that point I have seen hardly anyone, if anyone at all, giving reasons why sin bins won't work.

I was not offended in any way by the view that you stated, in case this was bothering you. I do look forward to all of the comments by fans, players and referees that you referred to saying how much they have hated the sin bin experiment in the lower leagues that have tried it. Because, try as I might, I could not find any at all.

I'm sure they're all there though.

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There were plenty of reasons given - you were just being selective in picking out comments to substantiate your "cretins" remark.

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Originally Posted by Loramski

Had a quick look myself, the only thread I could find was this one.

https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/sin-bins.11464/

Six posts, one ref was in favour but two weren't 'massive fans'. No sign of the word hate, very tame. No mention of the fans or the players views either, I guess they'd be on the fanchat and playerchat sites? Looking forward to reading the thread you saw, it sounds vitriolic.

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Will try to put it up this evening.

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

There were plenty of reasons given - you were just being selective in picking out comments to substantiate your "cretins" remark.

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Perhaps, to save me reading back you could let me have, say, half a dozen of the "plenty of reasons given", you refer to.

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Originally Posted by Nick

Perhaps, to save me reading back you could let me have, say, half a dozen of the "plenty of reasons given", you refer to.

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Burden of proof fallacy.

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Burden of proof fallacy.

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OK, that's not a problem.

I've now read back through the thread anyway.

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Where's the cutoff for VAR? Premier League? Championship? Conference?

I think tennis is crap becauseAndy Murray v Roger Federer on centre court has a different set of parameters than Kyle Edmunds v John Isner on Court 12 despite them being in the same round of the same competition. Cardiff v Man C - no VAR, the match later in the day had VAR.

VAR is not infallible. It never will be.

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I wouldn’t mind having a video ref but VAR just seems overly complex in it’s supposed simplicity (clear and obvious). It seems to slow the game down.

What I find more infuriating is blatant cheating.

Suarez’s hanball against Ghana should have seen him banned for the rest of that world cup and the next. It’s much more damaging than a ref not seeing a marginal offside.

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Will try to put it up this evening.

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No rush. Whenever you're ready.

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Originally Posted by Loramski

No rush. Whenever you're ready.

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Bump.

A headline **** would be proud of.

You could change your name to Aunty A.nnis.

No real thoughts on wether it would, or wouldn’t work, much like VAR it would cause massive disruption to implement, and implement properly.

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Originally Posted by J R Hartley

A headline **** would be proud of.

You could change your name to Aunty A.nnis.

No real thoughts on wether it would, or wouldn’t work, much like VAR it would cause massive disruption to implement, and implement properly.

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Damn it, I’ve been rumbled :hehe:

Blimey I only thought I’d like to an article from Walesonline with a catchy title and it’s all kicked off (pun intended).

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Originally Posted by Loramski

No rush. Whenever you're ready.

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:tumbleweed:

Would a game where say a team had 2 players sent off and two sin binned have to be abandoned? I'm sure the laws of the game say that if a team has less than 8 players, the game must be abandoned.

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Originally Posted by Harry Monk

Would a game where say a team had 2 players sent off and two sin binned have to be abandoned? I'm sure the laws of the game say that if a team has less than 8 players, the game must be abandoned.

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That would never happen!

https://www.theguardian.com/football...8/match.sport4

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Originally Posted by Nick

:tumbleweed:

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I feel bad now, I wouldn't have asked if I'd known he was this busy. I thought a Tuesday night would have been good for him, he always seems to have them free when City lose or have a small crowd.

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Originally Posted by Loramski

I feel bad now, I wouldn't have asked if I'd known he was this busy. I thought a Tuesday night would have been good for him, he always seems to have them free when City lose or have a small crowd.

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:hehe:

He always gets found out and disappears until, he hopes, everyone has forgotten his untruths and shortcomings.

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Originally Posted by Loramski

I feel bad now, I wouldn't have asked if I'd known he was this busy. I thought a Tuesday night would have been good for him, he always seems to have them free when City lose or have a small crowd.

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He is too busy ironing his shirt.

Badly.

Like everything else he says and does.

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Originally Posted by Nick

OK, that's not a problem.

I've now read back through the thread anyway.

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And what were your findings Croesy?

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Originally Posted by Loramski

No rush. Whenever you're ready.

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Originally Posted by Loramski

I feel bad now, I wouldn't have asked if I'd known he was this busy. I thought a Tuesday night would have been good for him, he always seems to have them free when City lose or have a small crowd.

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Hmmm, so no rush for my link but a bitchy response when I haven't posted for a few hours. If it's OK with you, I have had to nurse my little lad through toothache - all things considered - your yearnings were not that high on my list of priorities. I'm sorry if that doesn't tie in with your graph on the patterns of my internet behaviour (I prefer your loan watch to your "me" watch). You are already exhibiting signs of confirmation bias, so whilst I was going to post some links you can wait a little while longer just for being so needy.

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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues

He is too busy ironing his shirt.

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Fair play, that was hilarious. I'd ask for an encore but, one semi decent joke in 20 years from you probably means that I should reign in my expectation levels.

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Originally Posted by Nick

Badly.

Like everything else he says and does.

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Any signs of your mid-life crisis ending? It's been 20 years now.

https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/si...ea-pigs.10114/

https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/sin-bins.10501/

I have other links too - if you can exhibit a little more patience.

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Originally Posted by Nick

:hehe:

He always gets found out and disappears until, he hopes, everyone has forgotten his untruths and shortcomings.

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Nah, that would be Mrs Harris who hasn't posted on here once since we worked out it was actually you posting and not Mrs Harris.

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Originally Posted by jon1959

That would never happen!

https://www.theguardian.com/football...8/match.sport4

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Yeah, had a vague memory of that, but I also remember when we were down to 8 men at Cambridge once, someone saying after the game on some sport show that if we'd gone down to 7 the game would have been abandoned. Obviously not.

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Nah, that would be Mrs Harris who hasn't posted on here once since we worked out it was actually you posting and not Mrs Harris.

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Mate - There's no "We" when it comes to this message board. It is very apparent that you are very much on your own on here.

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/si...ea-pigs.10114/

https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/sin-bins.10501/

I have other links too - if you can exhibit a little more patience.

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But where did you get the idea from that refs, players and fans all hated the sin-bins when they were trialled? You've put up two links, one from before the trials even started and one from a couple of months in where every ref is broadly supportive bar one with no mention of fans' or players' views. You're against sin-bins, that's fine, and if refs, players and fans did all hate them then that's going to help your argument but you can't blame me for thinking you've made it up if you can't provide any evidence.

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Originally Posted by Loramski

But where did you get the idea from that refs, players and fans all hated the sin-bins when they were trialled? You've put up two links, one from before the trials even started and one from a couple of months in where every ref is broadly supportive bar one with no mention of fans' or players' views. You're against sin-bins, that's fine, and if refs, players and fans did all hate them then that's going to help your argument but you can't blame me for thinking you've made it up if you can't provide any evidence.

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:popcorn:

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Originally Posted by Loramski

But where did you get the idea from that refs, players and fans all hated the sin-bins when they were trialled? You've put up two links, one from before the trials even started and one from a couple of months in where every ref is broadly supportive bar one with no mention of fans' or players' views. You're against sin-bins, that's fine, and if refs, players and fans did all hate them then that's going to help your argument but you can't blame me for thinking you've made it up if you can't provide any evidence.

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No, I can't blame you for that at all so will provide the other links when I get the time.

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

It's been introduced in tier 7 this season, the referees hate it, the players hate it, the fans hate it.

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The head of referees, Neale Barry, says the trials have been very positive. There has been a 38% reduction in dissent since the scheme started and the experiment will be extended to more leagues next season.

https://www.balls.ie/football/refere...in-bins-385628

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Originally Posted by Loramski

The head of referees, Neale Barry, says the trials have been very positive. There has been a 38% reduction in dissent since the scheme started and the experiment will be extended to more leagues next season.

https://www.balls.ie/football/refere...in-bins-385628

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But I was told categorically - by an excellent source - that referees, fans and players all hated sin-bins.

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Originally Posted by Nick

But I was told categorically - by an excellent source - that referees, fans and players all hated sin-bins.

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Don't worry, he's got the evidence to prove it, he's going to put it on here when he's got time. The head of referees is going to look like a right clown when he does.

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Originally Posted by Loramski

Don't worry, he's got the evidence to prove it, he's going to put it on here when he's got time.

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Indeed I will.

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Originally Posted by Badly Ironed Shirt

Indeed I will.

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Ok. I'll be patient, see if you can put it up by the time the World Cup starts (the 2018 one in Russia I mean, not the 2022 one which could be held in a number of Middle Eastern nations).

It's a shame there's so little information about the sin-bin experiment outside of your imagination. Those kind of trials are usually a good indicator of whether rule changes could work at the higher levels of the game and can often throw up surprising results. For example, players at that level used to have to pay a £10 fine if they got a yellow card for dissent but that was scrubbed when the experiment started as dissent was now to be punished with 10 minutes in the sin-bin instead. Some refs were worried that dissent would now increase as there was no financial penalty involved but it turns out that it actually decreased by 38%.

Seems that sin-bins are an effective deterrent from that but obviously we need more information before we can draw any conclusions about their overall impact. Your evidence will help to provide that, share it when you're ready.

Have you dug up that evidence yet?

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Originally Posted by jamieccfc

Have you dug up that evidence yet?

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:hehe::hehe::hehe:

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Originally Posted by jamieccfc

Have you dug up that evidence yet?

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When he has time Jamie. He’s too busy putting everyone on ignore, and then reminding them they are ignore like it’s going to ruin their day :hehe:

Being told by BIS that youre on ignore is like being told by Jimmy Saville that you’re not invited to ride in the back of his limousine with him :hehe:

:hehe:

Could BIS be Jason Mohamed? He blocks everyone on Twitter who has a differing opinion than his.

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Originally Posted by Harry Monk

Could BIS be Jason Mohamed? He blocks everyone on Twitter who has a differing opinion than his.

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No, Mohamed is a Cardiff City supporter.

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Originally Posted by Nick

No, Mohamed is a Cardiff City supporter.

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I thought he was Spurs fan who occasionally turns up at the CCS.

I don't understand why he has a column. Separate to this, am sure he represents an element of the Welsh psyche but the two articles I have seen (brexit and football world cup) seem to undermine Wales more than anything.

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Originally Posted by Nick

No, Mohamed is a Cardiff City supporter.

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Na, he's a Spurs fan, first and foremost.